peTeMelster
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
- Messages
- 198
I've been having a debate in my other thread about the definition of an HTPC vs. the definition of a PC that has a tuner card/software/tweaked codecs.
Basically, I will be claiming here:
1. A general PC with tuner card/software/codecs/tweaks is an HTPC. An HTPC does NOT have to be dedicated in order to call it a HTPC.
2. A dedicated HTPC is a huge waste of potential and money because you are knowingly limiting the computer's functionality.
Here are my definitions as most others seem to see it, from what I've been able to gather in all my questioning:
1. General use PC: a computer that does basic, general PC tasks such as Word, Excel, internet surfing, light media playback, etc. and nothing else; excels at nothing, typically does not have tuner cards
2. Gaming rig: on top of keeping all the functions of the General Use PC, a gaming rig excels at gaming by adding higher performance hardware such as graphic cards or by adding other gaming performance boosters
3. HTPC: on top of keeping all the functions of the General Use PC, an HTPC excels at media playback via tweaked codecs and filters; has a tuner card/PVR software to watch TV and record shows; has an organized and easy way to access and playback media files; typically may have media center accessories such as remote controls and wireless keyboard/mouse; required to be dedicated to media playback only (this is not something I agree with, but has become clear is a part of the requirement of an HTPC to many ppl)
4. General use PC with tuner card/software/codecs: exactly the same as HTPC, except it will not be limited to do media stuff only; it can also do general PC tasks and possibly acceptable gaming
The main issues revolve around 3 and 4. What are the issues brought up between the differences between 3 and 4?
The debate is more than definitions though. Here are the topics at hand:
1. Must an HTPC be limited to media playback only (aka it may not do Word, Excel, etc.) in order to be called an HTPC? In other words, does this computer need to be dedicated in order to be called an HTPC, despite the fact that it can do general PC tasks? If so, why? The distinction between dedicated and non-dedicated seems purely definitional/intentional rather than functional.
2. What is the difference between a dedicated HPTC and a general PC that happens to have a tuner card, software, codec tweaks, remote control, etc. (basically it has all the HTPC functions) but is NOT limited by the user to dedicated media playback? Is it simply the intention to limit the HTPC that allows one to call it that? If so, that sounds like a stubborn attachment to a definition, while ignoring the possible things you can do with your machine - seems silly.
3. Why would you limit your HTPC to only do media tasks when it has the ability to do so much more, such as general PC tasks?
=====================================================================
To me, it seems the problem is this:
If I build a computer that does all the functions of an HTPC, but I allow it to also do Word, Excel, etc., I still call it an HTPC. People seem to be heated over this. I call it an HTPC because it performs all the functions of an HTPC, but I am unwilling to limit it to only HTPC functions. I want it to do other tasks as well.
It seems to me that to limit a computer that has full HTPC functionality to only HTPC tasks is like limiting a computer with SLI Nvidia 8800 GTX Ultras and the fastest CPU available to only surfing the web, typing up essays on Word, and other basic tasks, but not allow it to game. This comp is clearly more like a gaming rig, yet you let it only do general PC tasks purely because you do not want it to game despite its capability to do so and do so very well. All because you want it call it a general use PC rather than a gaming rig. That's a stubborn attachment to definition, and you are blind sighted to the actual capabilities of your machine.
The same situation is here with the HTPC. You build yourself a powerful computer that can do both HTPC and general PC tasks, but allow it only to do HTPC tasks because you want to be able to call it a dedicated machine. It has the ability to do more and do it very well (to do general tasks ON TOP OF HTPC tasks), but you just don't feel like letting it do so because, oh no, that would mean this computer is no longer dedicated to media only, so therefore you can't call it a HTPC anymore, but rather it is now a general PC with tuner card/etc.
That position seems like a stubborn attachment to a definition, rather than using your computer to its full potential, yet other say I am missing the point of an HTPC completely.
So, I'm interested...what is the point of an HTPC? Why can't I build a non-dedicated computer that does HTPC tasks equally well (because it has the same hardware and codecs and software) as a dedicated HTPC, then go on to call my non-dedicated computer an HTPC? After all, it performs all the functions of an HTPC equally well, the only difference is, I also use Word and Excel and stuff on it.
======================================================
Here are the arguments I've seen throw at me:
1. An HTPC needs a special HTPC case that matches the living room electronics better than a normal tower computer case.
Rebuttal: This is purely cosmetic. It has no bearing on the actual functioning of the computer. In fact, HTPC cases are cramped, small, have low airflow, and are generally hotter - all disadvantages over a tower desktop computer. Since when was cosmetics a defining trait for any term? It might be a typical trait, but never a defining trait. Defining traits are always functions. A tree is not a tree because it has the shape of what we've come to know as "tree," it's not a tree because it has leaves and a trunk. It is a tree because it has roots that go into the ground, it photosynthesizes, it might bear fruit, and all the other traits that describe how it functions.
2. An HTPC is generally quiet/silent.
Rebuttal: So? My general desktop computer is quiet/silent too. I strive to make all my computer quiet. In fact, it might be argued that a general computer needs to be MORE quiet than an HTPC to not be noticed. A general computer usually sits on a desk that is a few feet away from the user, so the noise is easier to hear, while an HTPC sits in the living room several feet away on the opposite end of the room, so it can afford to be a little louder before its noise becomes intrusive. Also, the ambient noise in the living room is typically louder than the ambient noise in your office/computer room/personal room.
Your possible counter-rebuttal: General workstations don't need to be so quiet. They can afford some noise, but an HTPC cannot because in the middle of a quiet love scene in the movie, you don't want the mood to be ruined by the noise of the computer.
My rebuttal to that: Fine, that's your opinion, and it's understandable. But then, I submit to you the point I made earlier. Silence is not a defining trait of an HTPC. A loud HTPC vs. a quiet HTPC has no bearing on how well the HTPC can play back the media files and perform other HTPC tasks. They are both still HTPCs. So yes, while a quiet HTPC makes for a nicer media experience, it is not a requisite trait that can be said to be included in the definition of a HTPC.
3. An HTPC generally has large hard drive capacity.
Rebuttal: My general PC has large capacity too - 500gb, planning to upgrade to 1 TB. Nowadays, most modern general PCs have pretty large capacities with the cheap prices of hard drives. Good quality 500gbs HDDs can be had for around $100-120 new, shipped, after taxes. But again, this is not a defining trait, just something nice to have. Hard drive space has no effect on the ability to play back files (so long as you do have the space to hold the files you want to play back and the space for things like your media player and operating system and such).
4. An HTPC must be dedicated to media playback only. This makes it easier to access and find your media files, since it's all in one central location. You won't get disoriented trying to do media playback because there are no other files like Word files to get you confused.
Rebuttal: What? Are you serious? Just because there are other file types on your computer, you get disoriented that you can't find your media files easily enough? Then not only are you not computer literate, you don't even understand basic computer functionality.
However, if this is a problem for you, then this could be a valid reason to have a purely dedicated HTPC. But I suggest you stay away from your normal computer as well, since clearly, you don't know how to do even basic things on it such as finding where your media files are and not getting them mixed up with your Word files.
5. An HTPC is usually set in the living room, so you can't use it as a general use PC because there is less privacy in the living room than your normal computer workspace.
Rebuttal: None. Okay, if this really bothers you, then this is the only legitimate reason I see to building a purely dedicated HTPC. For me, this is not a problem though, so I don't worry about this.
6. An HTPC is considered that (an HTPC) precisely because it excels at media playback.
Rebuttal: No, it doesn't excel. It is identical in media playback performance to any computer that has the same hardware, software, codecs, settings. If I build a general PC with xyz parts, then I build an HTPC with those same xyz parts, I am going to get identical performance. Of course, there is manufacturing variance, but you can't control that. For the purposes of this discussion, they are identical in performance if they are the same part. Or if not, then the HTPC actually performs worse because it is stuck in a low-airflow, small case with worse ventilation than a tower computer case. That means your CPU is running hotter, your HDD is running hotter, everything is hotter, and thus more prone to deterioration, failure, and lesser performance.
7. An HTPC serves as one central location for all your media files.
Rebuttal: My general PC serves as one central location for all my media files too. They are all on my hard drive. Not only that, but my general PC serves as one central location for all my computer files.
====================================================
Now I'm open to new ideas, and if so many people are against what I believe constitutes an HTPC, then I realize the high probability that I am missing something. However, no one has taken the time to show me what am I missing if I am indeed missing some point. They jsut throw their hands up in the air in exasperation because apparently I don't get it.
I've given a pretty logical and strong argument for my case. If you feel differently, I'd like to hear your thoughts and for you to explain it to me logically too. Thanks!
Basically, I will be claiming here:
1. A general PC with tuner card/software/codecs/tweaks is an HTPC. An HTPC does NOT have to be dedicated in order to call it a HTPC.
2. A dedicated HTPC is a huge waste of potential and money because you are knowingly limiting the computer's functionality.
Here are my definitions as most others seem to see it, from what I've been able to gather in all my questioning:
1. General use PC: a computer that does basic, general PC tasks such as Word, Excel, internet surfing, light media playback, etc. and nothing else; excels at nothing, typically does not have tuner cards
2. Gaming rig: on top of keeping all the functions of the General Use PC, a gaming rig excels at gaming by adding higher performance hardware such as graphic cards or by adding other gaming performance boosters
3. HTPC: on top of keeping all the functions of the General Use PC, an HTPC excels at media playback via tweaked codecs and filters; has a tuner card/PVR software to watch TV and record shows; has an organized and easy way to access and playback media files; typically may have media center accessories such as remote controls and wireless keyboard/mouse; required to be dedicated to media playback only (this is not something I agree with, but has become clear is a part of the requirement of an HTPC to many ppl)
4. General use PC with tuner card/software/codecs: exactly the same as HTPC, except it will not be limited to do media stuff only; it can also do general PC tasks and possibly acceptable gaming
The main issues revolve around 3 and 4. What are the issues brought up between the differences between 3 and 4?
The debate is more than definitions though. Here are the topics at hand:
1. Must an HTPC be limited to media playback only (aka it may not do Word, Excel, etc.) in order to be called an HTPC? In other words, does this computer need to be dedicated in order to be called an HTPC, despite the fact that it can do general PC tasks? If so, why? The distinction between dedicated and non-dedicated seems purely definitional/intentional rather than functional.
2. What is the difference between a dedicated HPTC and a general PC that happens to have a tuner card, software, codec tweaks, remote control, etc. (basically it has all the HTPC functions) but is NOT limited by the user to dedicated media playback? Is it simply the intention to limit the HTPC that allows one to call it that? If so, that sounds like a stubborn attachment to a definition, while ignoring the possible things you can do with your machine - seems silly.
3. Why would you limit your HTPC to only do media tasks when it has the ability to do so much more, such as general PC tasks?
=====================================================================
To me, it seems the problem is this:
If I build a computer that does all the functions of an HTPC, but I allow it to also do Word, Excel, etc., I still call it an HTPC. People seem to be heated over this. I call it an HTPC because it performs all the functions of an HTPC, but I am unwilling to limit it to only HTPC functions. I want it to do other tasks as well.
It seems to me that to limit a computer that has full HTPC functionality to only HTPC tasks is like limiting a computer with SLI Nvidia 8800 GTX Ultras and the fastest CPU available to only surfing the web, typing up essays on Word, and other basic tasks, but not allow it to game. This comp is clearly more like a gaming rig, yet you let it only do general PC tasks purely because you do not want it to game despite its capability to do so and do so very well. All because you want it call it a general use PC rather than a gaming rig. That's a stubborn attachment to definition, and you are blind sighted to the actual capabilities of your machine.
The same situation is here with the HTPC. You build yourself a powerful computer that can do both HTPC and general PC tasks, but allow it only to do HTPC tasks because you want to be able to call it a dedicated machine. It has the ability to do more and do it very well (to do general tasks ON TOP OF HTPC tasks), but you just don't feel like letting it do so because, oh no, that would mean this computer is no longer dedicated to media only, so therefore you can't call it a HTPC anymore, but rather it is now a general PC with tuner card/etc.
That position seems like a stubborn attachment to a definition, rather than using your computer to its full potential, yet other say I am missing the point of an HTPC completely.
So, I'm interested...what is the point of an HTPC? Why can't I build a non-dedicated computer that does HTPC tasks equally well (because it has the same hardware and codecs and software) as a dedicated HTPC, then go on to call my non-dedicated computer an HTPC? After all, it performs all the functions of an HTPC equally well, the only difference is, I also use Word and Excel and stuff on it.
======================================================
Here are the arguments I've seen throw at me:
1. An HTPC needs a special HTPC case that matches the living room electronics better than a normal tower computer case.
Rebuttal: This is purely cosmetic. It has no bearing on the actual functioning of the computer. In fact, HTPC cases are cramped, small, have low airflow, and are generally hotter - all disadvantages over a tower desktop computer. Since when was cosmetics a defining trait for any term? It might be a typical trait, but never a defining trait. Defining traits are always functions. A tree is not a tree because it has the shape of what we've come to know as "tree," it's not a tree because it has leaves and a trunk. It is a tree because it has roots that go into the ground, it photosynthesizes, it might bear fruit, and all the other traits that describe how it functions.
2. An HTPC is generally quiet/silent.
Rebuttal: So? My general desktop computer is quiet/silent too. I strive to make all my computer quiet. In fact, it might be argued that a general computer needs to be MORE quiet than an HTPC to not be noticed. A general computer usually sits on a desk that is a few feet away from the user, so the noise is easier to hear, while an HTPC sits in the living room several feet away on the opposite end of the room, so it can afford to be a little louder before its noise becomes intrusive. Also, the ambient noise in the living room is typically louder than the ambient noise in your office/computer room/personal room.
Your possible counter-rebuttal: General workstations don't need to be so quiet. They can afford some noise, but an HTPC cannot because in the middle of a quiet love scene in the movie, you don't want the mood to be ruined by the noise of the computer.
My rebuttal to that: Fine, that's your opinion, and it's understandable. But then, I submit to you the point I made earlier. Silence is not a defining trait of an HTPC. A loud HTPC vs. a quiet HTPC has no bearing on how well the HTPC can play back the media files and perform other HTPC tasks. They are both still HTPCs. So yes, while a quiet HTPC makes for a nicer media experience, it is not a requisite trait that can be said to be included in the definition of a HTPC.
3. An HTPC generally has large hard drive capacity.
Rebuttal: My general PC has large capacity too - 500gb, planning to upgrade to 1 TB. Nowadays, most modern general PCs have pretty large capacities with the cheap prices of hard drives. Good quality 500gbs HDDs can be had for around $100-120 new, shipped, after taxes. But again, this is not a defining trait, just something nice to have. Hard drive space has no effect on the ability to play back files (so long as you do have the space to hold the files you want to play back and the space for things like your media player and operating system and such).
4. An HTPC must be dedicated to media playback only. This makes it easier to access and find your media files, since it's all in one central location. You won't get disoriented trying to do media playback because there are no other files like Word files to get you confused.
Rebuttal: What? Are you serious? Just because there are other file types on your computer, you get disoriented that you can't find your media files easily enough? Then not only are you not computer literate, you don't even understand basic computer functionality.
However, if this is a problem for you, then this could be a valid reason to have a purely dedicated HTPC. But I suggest you stay away from your normal computer as well, since clearly, you don't know how to do even basic things on it such as finding where your media files are and not getting them mixed up with your Word files.
5. An HTPC is usually set in the living room, so you can't use it as a general use PC because there is less privacy in the living room than your normal computer workspace.
Rebuttal: None. Okay, if this really bothers you, then this is the only legitimate reason I see to building a purely dedicated HTPC. For me, this is not a problem though, so I don't worry about this.
6. An HTPC is considered that (an HTPC) precisely because it excels at media playback.
Rebuttal: No, it doesn't excel. It is identical in media playback performance to any computer that has the same hardware, software, codecs, settings. If I build a general PC with xyz parts, then I build an HTPC with those same xyz parts, I am going to get identical performance. Of course, there is manufacturing variance, but you can't control that. For the purposes of this discussion, they are identical in performance if they are the same part. Or if not, then the HTPC actually performs worse because it is stuck in a low-airflow, small case with worse ventilation than a tower computer case. That means your CPU is running hotter, your HDD is running hotter, everything is hotter, and thus more prone to deterioration, failure, and lesser performance.
7. An HTPC serves as one central location for all your media files.
Rebuttal: My general PC serves as one central location for all my media files too. They are all on my hard drive. Not only that, but my general PC serves as one central location for all my computer files.
====================================================
Now I'm open to new ideas, and if so many people are against what I believe constitutes an HTPC, then I realize the high probability that I am missing something. However, no one has taken the time to show me what am I missing if I am indeed missing some point. They jsut throw their hands up in the air in exasperation because apparently I don't get it.
I've given a pretty logical and strong argument for my case. If you feel differently, I'd like to hear your thoughts and for you to explain it to me logically too. Thanks!