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Deleted member 126051
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Depending on area, there may be specialty places that can replace the battery with a reconditioned unit for a fraction of that cost.
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Electric Vehicle Sales Fall Far Short Of White House Goal
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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Depending on area, there may be specialty places that can replace the battery with a reconditioned unit for a fraction of that cost.
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Deleted member 126051
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Part of the reason they "look like ass", is because they're making inordinate concessions to wind resistance and fiddling with strength-to-weight ratios to eke the maximum distance they can ouf of the car under normal driving while still complying with equipment placement and traffic safety requirements.
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Deleted member 126051
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Honestly, with the price of airport parking, even the discount long-term lots, it's probably cheaper to hire a cab/limo service than it is to drive and park.
Not that you don't have a point. Just in this particular case...
Rev Lemmon
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2006
- Messages
- 268
I have four kids and wife. I'll trade my Ford Excursion for a EV when
1. I can fit all four car seats into the car
2. Above and still fit groceries into said car
3. Battery isn't crippled when it dips below freezing
4. When the grid is updated so it doesn't collapse when I charge the car or
5. I have a small self contained nuclear reactor under my house for power.
1. I can fit all four car seats into the car
2. Above and still fit groceries into said car
3. Battery isn't crippled when it dips below freezing
4. When the grid is updated so it doesn't collapse when I charge the car or
5. I have a small self contained nuclear reactor under my house for power.
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Deleted member 126051
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Yeah. The point he's making is that you usually don't want to and/or cannot leave your car hooked to said chargers for extended periods.
They also seem too focused on the sub compact size market.
I've NEVER seen a subcompact car look decent. They are ALL hideous, fugly monstrosities. They are forced to alter the sedan body style because it looks too much like a scrunched up toy at those dimensions, but the boxy utilitarian econobox style is just too ugly to live with for my tastes.
the model is a VERY large car. The model 3 will suposedly be about 20% smaller which should put it in the ballpark of a reasonable midsize sedan, a step above compact size, but not quite as large as the model s / bmw 7 series. More like a 3 series.
At that size, they can still design the car to look sexy and sleek and attractive. NO other pure electric car maker seems to want to pay attention to those sizes.
The compact market is HUGE, the midsize sedan market is HUGE, and ONLY tesla is trying to target it?
It's kind of ridiculous.
/dev/null
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2001
- Messages
- 15,182
At my workplace (I work in IT), I have one of the shortest commutes at 60-70 miles round trip. Not sure the leaf at 60 miles highway (70mph) with heater on full blast would achieve that range. I'm guessing it wouldn't but not sure. I've looked into one as a commuter. There is even an electric charging station at the city garage I park in, but it's limited to 3 hours max or you get ticketed. Honestly, I can't drive into work, charge 3 hours, run out before lunch and move the car & run back in again every day. This range (60-70 miles) only works if I don't go to our secondary office that is another ~20 miles away from the first. And I may need to go there if there is a major issue. No charging there.
The grid is plenty under utilized in the evening. Most Workplaces make up the majority of grid utilization and since most are open 9-5 (give or take) once you get to nightfall, the grid is under utilized. This is barring any regulatory induced restriction like plagues CA.
If anything utilizing the grid for something like car charging helps the utility make a better profit for the heavy capital investment of the equipment. Potentially driving down cost.
The "grid" is not a throttled resource like gasoline when consuming it in the morning takes away what might be available in the evening. The grid has a fixed peak capability. Coming close to it at 9AM doesn't affect you capability at 9PM.
Strangely enough there are actually people who consider factors other than solely cost.
Well it's not looks, range, convenience, features, price.....
I guess they can do a tiny part in reducing emissions, but their impact would be much more meaningful if the would just off themselves.
This exactly. If their prices were inline with the same class of conventional car then people would buy them.
Buying an EV right now isn't really a logical decision. They offer essentially no real-world advantage to a traditional car or even hybrid. They're very neat, and I wouldn't mind owning one, but they're simply less practical in basically every way. When charging stations are far more ubiquitous and oil goes back to above $50 a barrel, then maybe.
According to Tesla, 1kwh = 2.33 miles in a Model S. I pay about 16 cents per kWh, which is only slightly higher than the national average. Average car gets 30 mpg. Model S equivalent, that's 12.9 kWh = 1 gallon.
That's over $2 per gallon-equivalent, assuming 100% charging efficiency. With charging losses that's about $2.50 per gallon to run your Model S. National average right now is about $1.93.
So between the premium you pay for an EV versus an ICE car of the same size/appointments, the fact that they currently cost more to run, and that they have a high built-in extra cost in terms of battery expiration, there is no economic argument for buying an EV right now.
According to Tesla, 1kwh = 2.33 miles in a Model S. I pay about 16 cents per kWh, which is only slightly higher than the national average. Average car gets 30 mpg. Model S equivalent, that's 12.9 kWh = 1 gallon.
That's over $2 per gallon-equivalent, assuming 100% charging efficiency. With charging losses that's about $2.50 per gallon to run your Model S. National average right now is about $1.93.
So between the premium you pay for an EV versus an ICE car of the same size/appointments, the fact that they currently cost more to run, and that they have a high built-in extra cost in terms of battery expiration, there is no economic argument for buying an EV right now.
Honestly, who cares what it looks like for a daily driver to and from work - give me maximum miles possible - function over form all the way. 1% more fuel / battery economy by changing body design? Sign me up! Honestly, I'll buy a Prius of some form or even a Smart Car for my daily driver if the old 99 Taurus ever stops working.
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It does just fine. It does better when it has a charge in the battery because you get the torque, but I've never been scared that I didn't have enough power to properly merge even when the battery didn't have a full charge.
Wow .... ever considered a switch to decaf?
I think it's funny to read all these replies from people who vilify all electric cars because they don't meet their own arbitrary requirements. Electric cars don't currently suit everyone, but they do make sense to some people. Just let the people who can drive them practically buy them and keep on buying what you need to buy. There are some advantages to electric cars, such as cheaper fuel bills and lower maintenance requirements. The technology is improving all the time so the situation may change in the future. But the existence of electric cars isn't stopping you from buying the car you need to buy so calling everyone who owns one stupid or a hipster isn't helping anyone.
That's the whole point of the thread: the people for whom EVs make more sense than ICE cars are very, very few. There is a somewhat larger group of people for whom EVs aren't much worse than ICE cars. However, for the vast majority of people, EVs really make quite a bit less sense than ICE cars. Hence the low rates of adoption.
For the vast majority of people, the strongest argument they could make in favor of buying an EV would be "well, it won't be THAT much more expensive or inconvenient."
BTW, the "cheaper fuel bills" thing is no longer true. Gasoline is now cheaper than charging almost everywhere, and that's before figuring in higher purchase cost and battery replacement.
You dream about driving for 12 hours? Mine tend to shoot a bit higher than that
Agreed. Besides, if It's while on those long drives that I am able to reach that empty headed state of zen allowing me to remember my first girl and wonder how she's doing and send her a little wish that she's having a happy life. I owe her at least that much for that fine gift she gave me at a time when I really needed it
The reason there is so much backlash against ev car owners is because they spend so much time trying to vilify ice drivers. Literally every time you turn around there is some hybrid/ev douche crying about how ice drivers are destroying the planet and how much better of a person they obviously are for driving an ev. They then attempt to justify their stance with pseudo science and bullshit feelings.
As a technology I have zero problems with ev, hybrid, fuel cell etc. I'm 100% in favor of alternative technologies. What I'm against however is compromising on performance and features.
I'm not sure you know what "literally" means.
Obvious slight exaggeration to make a point that it's excessive.
That's funny, IMO, it's the other way around .... and this forum is a great example.
"Slight."
I'm not sure where you live or who you hang out with, but I never see that sort of behavior. Maybe on the occasional Reddit thread or something.
I actually think the opposite case is more prevalent. My daily commuter is a Toyota Yaris, due to the phenomenal gas mileage. My wife drives a CRV (she carts the kids around). I can't tell you how many times I have had these silly hillbilly truck/suv owners come up to me and laugh and ask why I drive my small car. It's like my choice to drive something more affordable (and better for the environment) is somehow a form of emasculation for them.
Growing up in the south, to be fair with those types anything other than a big 4x4 isn't masculine. However given the collective IQ of that group, I'm pretty certain we can all just agree to ignore them. As for the rest, I'm sure region plays a large role.
Have you seen Tesla's new SUV they are beginning to market, it's huge, seats seven in bucket style seating. I can't say how comfy it is, but my wife wouldn't like it. She likes to crawl in the back on trips, lays down and sleeps.
It's a damn heavy vehicle, almost 5,500 lbs.
So it sucks to be you. You are not the norm/average. You are in the extreme. You are the minority. So you would have to wait for a Chevy Bolt to reach your price point (200 mile range).
Here is what an average commute looks like. Actually they were rating them, here is the worse city average:
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local-govt-politics/atlanta-tops-typical-commute-distance/nkd7M/
"Atlanta's 12.8-mile commute topped all comers, but Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston are right there in our rear-view mirror at 12.2 miles each."
That puts the longest average round trip commuting distance of any City in the USA at ~26 miles.
So the average US commuter could do that will a cheap used leaf, no problem.
Here is the full list of the typical commute distances:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/here-are-the-typical-commutes-for-every-big-metro-area-2015-03-25
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/here-are-the-typical-commutes-for-every-big-metro-area-2015-03-25
Some does not equal all. You may be able to cherry pick some examples, but again, on average (for the majority) fueling and EV would be cheaper:
Comparing a Nissan Leaf/Versa:
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=37066&id=36570
Leaf is a lot cheaper to Fuel for the average American.
I agree. Although I don't think they make sense yet, I don't know anyone who bashes people in ICE cars for not driving electric. Probably because I don't know anyone that drives an electric car. I do know hybrid drivers, but they don't bash ICE drivers either. Of course if you're willing to buy a Lincoln MKZ, you can get a hyrbrid for the same price as the regular one, so if I got one, I'd get the Hybrid.
It would be cheaper to fuel for some, sure, but it would be more expensive to buy for all. Even if you compare a several-year-old Leaf vs a brand-new Versa.
The seats fold down, so you should be able to lay down on it and sleep np. You can actually fit a twin mattress on a Model S, so you should be able to get in the Model X np. I know you can also order it with less seating, but not sure it's worth doing that IMO.
It is very heavy, but it still does 0-60 in about 4.8 without Ludicrous mode, and around 3.2s with Ludicrous (per Tesla specs). I have never sat in one, so can't say how comfy it is, but my Model S seats are pretty good compared to my 2013 Audi S4.
I have about the same roundtrip distance. I'd drive a Chevy Bolt, but I would not trust a Leaf unless I could charge at work.
JayteeBates
[H]ard|Poof
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2007
- Messages
- 5,109
So EVs a hipster mobiles until it meets your unique, specific requirements? Does it become a non-hipster mobile after that or does the next person who the vehicle is not exactly tailored for get to point out it's still a hipster mobile you're driving, because emotions?
The only thing he said that was emotional was "looks good". The rest is straight forward:
costs the same,
has a 350+ mile range,
and charges in 5 minutes
They certainly cannot do that at this point.
Assuming they just drove to work and back, and didn't have to pick up the kids, drive them to soccer/band/swimming practice, go shopping, etc.
It's not "extreme" for a car with 60-mile range to be insufficient.
"A lot" cheaper?
30 kWh per 100 miles is 9 kWh per 30 miles (1 gallon of gas for the Versa). At 16 cents per kWh, that's $1.44 plus efficiency losses to give $1.80. Gas is $1.90.
The Leaf costs $12,000 more than the Versa.
At current gas prices, you'd need to drive 120,000 miles to break even. That's about 10 years for most drivers.
The batteries won't last 10 years. Now add in the cost to replace the batteries once. Another $5,000? That's another 50,000 miles to break even.
Add the inconvenience on top of that, and.....