So i just installed a Xonar STX and hooked it up to my Z-5500 via a coax cable. But i miss the DD PL effects from the 6ch direct input(analog). These effect modes enable sound from all the speakers during music playback. Is it possible to enable the DD PL effects on the coax input, or is this an analog only feature, or is it something about the sound card? My display just reads DD Digital and the effects button do nothing, leaving me with 2.1 playback for music.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Z-5500, Coax and effects
- Thread starter zyklon
- Start date
morkboy_wonder
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
- Messages
- 377
You might have to enable this effect from the soundcard rather than the z-5500. Does your card have this feature?
morkboy_wonder
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
- Messages
- 377
I think some 3rd party codecs can give "stereo expand" type of effects. k-lite codec might do this. I suppose it depends on whether your player supports such codecs. Also I think foobar2000 player has plugins which do this kind of thing.
Hi,
Just wanna ask a question while I'm here..
1st.. How that setup sound on games and movies bro? Any better than on board audio?..
and
I thinking of that exact same card and I got the z5500's already.. Can I run the speakers via analog without loosing quality? Or do I have to use optical cable to get best result? I ask because I got a PS3 running the optical input on the z5500 control pod already..
:Luca
Just wanna ask a question while I'm here..
1st.. How that setup sound on games and movies bro? Any better than on board audio?..
and
I thinking of that exact same card and I got the z5500's already.. Can I run the speakers via analog without loosing quality? Or do I have to use optical cable to get best result? I ask because I got a PS3 running the optical input on the z5500 control pod already..
:Luca
morkboy_wonder
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
- Messages
- 377
I think since the z-5500 isn't really that high end there is not much appreciable difference between the analogue and digital inputs (to my ear anyway). I think in theory digital can be better but you need a pretty good DAC along with good amp/speakers.
Just noticed the STX doesn't have analog surround anyways..
Can someone fill me in on why every1 around here knocks the z-5500s? They nearly destroy my room with sound but every1 keeps saying they are rubbish.. what a better alternative..
thanks
:Luca
morkboy_wonder
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
- Messages
- 377
They aren't terrible, I grant you they are pretty loud and you can feel the sub. It is just the overall build quality of the speakers is far from being high-end.
Raw volume is the province of noise. Distortion, the introduction of noise sources, and irregular attenuation are huge problems that raw volume says nothing about. According to this, your ideal speakers are a jet aircraft.
Yes, that must be it.
Can I flog you with my copy of Rossing's "The Science of Sound" now?
No, I could do without some esoteric pretentious drivel on the essence of sound.
What does matter is that these are freakin "computer speakers". Most people are going to use them to augment their enjoyment on whatever stupid computer game they play. In that regard these speakers are just fine. They get the job done. I picked up a set for $140 bucks and I'm quite happy with them.
It's a physics book.
Are you done talking down your nose yet? The trolling is starting to get a little old.
Talk down my nose? You threatened to flog me with a physics book. Mr. pot meet Mr. kettle.
My point is simply thus: for your average computer gamer, the z5500 are more than adequate. To the highly enlightened audiophile fanatic, yes they probably sound like crap.
The guy asked why so many people seem to "knock" the z5500 when the truth is probably that most of the people doing the "knocking" are a much smaller segment of audiophiles who have a much higher standard than your average gamer.
To the OP: I am somewhat confused about your post. Here is why and anyone can correct me if I am wrong.
The 5500's are capable of Dolby decoding. Dolby Digital live, which the Xonar does converts any signal into a Dolby signal, aka 5.1. Dolby signals can only go digitally until decoded, this is why your 5500 displays DD Digital, because it is recieving the Dolby signal. Dolby Pro Logic is a process by which an analog stereo signal is converted to 5.1 through stereo image mapping and duplication.
Generally speaking DD Live is better than Pro Logic. Neither of these processes can be used on the other. DD Live is digital Dolby reproduction while Pro Logic is an analog Dolby reproduction. So you would never be able to use pro logic on a digital dolby signal.
Now why you are only hearing 2.1 from a DD Live source I do not know. I have the Auzentech Mystique, first sound card with DDLive encoding and the 5500s. I have never had 2.1 sound regardless of the source material: Game, MP3, etc.
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_II.html
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/dolby_live.html
The 5500's are capable of Dolby decoding. Dolby Digital live, which the Xonar does converts any signal into a Dolby signal, aka 5.1. Dolby signals can only go digitally until decoded, this is why your 5500 displays DD Digital, because it is recieving the Dolby signal. Dolby Pro Logic is a process by which an analog stereo signal is converted to 5.1 through stereo image mapping and duplication.
Generally speaking DD Live is better than Pro Logic. Neither of these processes can be used on the other. DD Live is digital Dolby reproduction while Pro Logic is an analog Dolby reproduction. So you would never be able to use pro logic on a digital dolby signal.
Now why you are only hearing 2.1 from a DD Live source I do not know. I have the Auzentech Mystique, first sound card with DDLive encoding and the 5500s. I have never had 2.1 sound regardless of the source material: Game, MP3, etc.
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_II.html
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/dolby_live.html
OmegaAvenger
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2007
- Messages
- 3,240
One mans junk is another mans treasure.
Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean it sucks.
Not everyone has 10k to spend on their sound system (or desk), and their computer AND their tv. People will put more money to what they find important.
I for one am working towards a huge amount of storage space. As such the best video card I have is a gtx 260 which I upgraded to since I needed DXVA.
I never made any such assertion my friend, nor did I ever make any such contentions that the z5500 were perfect in any way or free of any structural defect.
My only assertion is that an individuals perception of of "quality" or "crappiness" is highly dependent upon their personal standard and ability to perceive said quality. In other words, "It depends who you ask." That is a very basic and general concept. Are you really going to argue that? Really?
Luca1 is probably more representative of the average gamer and to him (and myself) these speakers are just fine. To someone like yourself who reads the "Science of Sound" and throws around terms about "irregular attenuation" well then you obviously have much higher standards. I'm sorry if that offends you. However, the average person doesn't read the "Science of Sound" nor do they even know what "attenuation" means.
See right there is an argument that I never understood. The Z-5500's are $302 on the egg, yet my M200MKII's that are leaps and bounds better sounding are $190. Yes, I have experience with both.
People need to get it out of their head that quality sound needs to cost an arm and a leg.
OmegaAvenger
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2007
- Messages
- 3,240
Because the majority of the time it does. Yeah sometimes you can find a deal, but that's not always the case. Plus I'm sure ashmedai has an opinion on those...
Example: I got my APC Smart UPS 2200VA-RM UPS used for $20, normally used they run over $200.
Edit: Got a link? I cant find those.
It costs too much for the quality it delivers. Fortunately for them, marketing can just exploit people who don't know there is better out there on the same budget. There are a very few applications where I would consider it reluctantly - as there are still better options in those cases - and even then I would recommend heavily to go find someone's used pair. $300 for those POS speakers is just sad.
Information is power. Many companies try to exploit your lack of information as a way to sell products for more than they're really worth (by way of a quality ranking among options at a given price cap). An informed buyer can reverse this and weed out such companies and find the options that favor the consumer instead.
Good audio starts really cheap, crappy audio can be found in pretty much any price range. If you use price as an indicator of quality, you will be operating at a really large disadvantage. Many things which improve quality also increase cost - but there is no exact linear correlation.
The Swans? Yeah, they're pretty sweet.
OmegaAvenger
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2007
- Messages
- 3,240
I agree, I was making a general statement though not about these particular speakers.
The M200MKII's?
Also, here are quite a few company's making quality active monitors that are under $300.
The part I quoted, obviously so, but in context...the Z5500s are junk. If someone gives them to you free or if you can get them used in great condition for $100...sure, go for it if you want cheap surround sound. But it's not a good $300 surround sound system, and it's not a good $300 audio system (I make the distinction since in many cases I would be dropping surround in favor of 2.1 and/or headphones on that budget...quality > extra channels IMO).
OmegaAvenger
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2007
- Messages
- 3,240
Are there any 5.1 systems with kind of quality? (of the swans)
You could put this highly rated (by Audioholics) 5.0 speaker system + a $100 receiver + $100 powered sub and have a much better 5.1 system then anything Logitech can throw at you.
But I'm with ashmedai, quality > channels any day.
But I'm with ashmedai, quality > channels any day.
Loads, but it usually involves getting a cheap receiver (by way of being equivalent to "multichannel amplifier" for low budgets). Is that a problem? And can you budget more than $300 if there's a good reason? For me, since I'm an adult with a normal income and I've kept my bills/debt down, I'd as soon pay an extra $100-200 on a purchase that's already that large if it will last me a lot longer or do a lot better. Other people...tighter budgets, and you haven't stated yours. Or are you just asking out of academic curiosity?
The niche for the Z5500 IMO is someone who has been heavily sold on surround over quality, has space for surround sats, but mysteriously can't find room for a receiver. It happens. The problem is that surround is supposed to be "immersive" but that surround with crappy speakers is far less so than a good 2.1 system or good headphones. It seems a little self-defeating to me.
The niche for the Z5500 IMO is someone who has been heavily sold on surround over quality, has space for surround sats, but mysteriously can't find room for a receiver. It happens. The problem is that surround is supposed to be "immersive" but that surround with crappy speakers is far less so than a good 2.1 system or good headphones. It seems a little self-defeating to me.
OmegaAvenger
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2007
- Messages
- 3,240
Mostly curiosity
Man, that worked better than Viagra for me.
The Z-5500 also has good ratings on that site.
I'm guessing that may be part of the reason for the parenthetical statement. But you have to screw things up pretty badly to have greatly increased driver area, greatly increased cabinet volume, and real speaker cabinets over molded plastic NOT translate to a completely unequal quality comparison. I'd spend a bit more and get sats which are better still, but it's enough to bury the Z5500s.
Hi
Thanks for your input, clearly you know what you are talking about. The more I read the more I learn.. I would just like to let you know that my ideal speakers are not a jet aircraft, though I do like that sound, and if your 'quote' from a book there (or from your head) tells you that it is.. then you are wrong.
I have 3.5 meter ceilings in my room and ample space. A 2.0 speaker setup wont do.. even if the quality is alot clearer. I mean seriously, the difference in quality is not THAT much.. but it is definitely there.
Also in response to 'Distortion, the introduction of noise sources, and irregular attenuation'.. I can crank the control pod up near full volume without noticing any overt audible distortion or irregularities in the sound on the 5500's. Maybe thats just me though, because if my 'ideal' speakers are a jet aircraft then.. I must be deaf.
I realise that alot of 2.0 setups have more of a crystal clear pristine sound but they don't really put me in the game like the 5500's do, and although the speakers you mention are better.. it doesn't mean the 5500's are crap.. I think it just means they are not as good
Its like saying.. "Yeah you did well at school getting 100% on that test David.. but you on the other hand Eric... 99%.. your a fucking Retard!" When I buy monitor speakers for my music and video editing.. I will not use my 5500's, but I will use them to create a more realistic atmosphere in gaming and annoy the shit out of my neighbours and for a mating call when I'm trying to attract a F16 Fighting Falcon
Please keep in mind that I am actually agreeing with you on the 5500's not being as good. And that your knowledge on speakers clearly surpasses mine.. I am merely letting people out there know that, some of us who aren't in little rooms, are happy with our 5500's
And I think that by the sounds of it.. your perfect speakers are high end headphones.. perfect sound reproduction and clarity and small enough to fit on your head.. well.. maybe
Seriously though.. Cheers, you've made me ponder..
:Luca
Obviously not. I'm just trying to shock you off the "volume is everything" bandwagon.
Maybe I'm placing you into that erroneously, but it sounded like you might be thinking in that vein. It's a major trap that people fall into, especially with car audio and with audio mastering...the "loudness war" is a major source of annoyed enthusiasts since the best equipment in the world can't do crap if your source data is squished in the name of appearing louder.
And no quote, just a slightly shop-talk list of some of the common problems in speakers with small driver area and a plastic housing. It's not entirely their fault, just the limitation of the design...making a good cabinet is one of the very major problems in designing good speakers, and the "make something pretty out of plastic" option just opts out of it entirely. As far as small drivers...producing sound means displacing air, and small drivers are only going to do that well if you're going for high frequencies. Even the human vocal range starts showing distortion, added noise, and irregular attenuation - meaning that frequencies are warped, noise from various sources is added, and frequencies are reduced or lost. Detail and clarity are things you can't really get without a proper design. Volume...heck, volume is easy. Volume with good sound, now that's hard.
OmegaAvenger
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2007
- Messages
- 3,240
Obviously not. I'm just trying to shock you off the "volume is everything" bandwagon.
Maybe I'm placing you into that erroneously, but it sounded like you might be thinking in that vein. It's a major trap that people fall into, especially with car audio and with audio mastering...the "loudness war" is a major source of annoyed enthusiasts since the best equipment in the world can't do crap if your source data is squished in the name of appearing louder.
And no quote, just a slightly shop-talk list of some of the common problems in speakers with small driver area and a plastic housing. It's not entirely their fault, just the limitation of the design...making a good cabinet is one of the very major problems in designing good speakers, and the "make something pretty out of plastic" option just opts out of it entirely. As far as small drivers...producing sound means displacing air, and small drivers are only going to do that well if you're going for high frequencies. Even the human vocal range starts showing distortion, added noise, and irregular attenuation - meaning that frequencies are warped, noise from various sources is added, and frequencies are reduced or lost. Detail and clarity are things you can't really get without a proper design. Volume...heck, volume is easy. Volume with good sound, now that's hard.
Yes the car audio world really has gone that way, thats for sure. All 90% of the people who upgrade their sound care about is if people know they are coming. I don't even have subs in my car. I have an alpine deck with 4 Infinity Reference 5x7s (all my car takes) and its awesome and honestly they sound cleaner than the crappy logitech system i'm running right now (it was $40 used), which is part of why I asked if those swans are good, because I am planning to upgrade, just not for a while so for the time being its curiosity. Also do you need to use a sub with those swans or no?
That, like speakers themselves is entirely subjective. I have used mine with an 8" Yamaha powered sub and without, and I am keeping them without. The way I have them hooked up (stereo RCA out of my M-Audio 2496), there is no ideal way to hook up a sub anyway.
Need - no. Would benefit from - yes.
Ah.. the exact reason I just spent 3 days deleting my mp3's and re-ripping as .wavs (yay the 1tb hdd's!
)So true.. i guess I just gotta draw the line where my ears draw the line. See, the 5500's sound good to me when it comes to movies and my music collection so I don't really need more quality for that intended use per se. Though when I start editing my music and need to nit pick a whole lot deeper, I will invest in 2 fantastic studio quality monitors.
For now though.. say you were stuck with a set of 5500's (just bear with the nightmare of that thought, it will be over soon
).. what is the soundcard that would a) give you the best possible sound out of that unit?.. not just a soundcard that is 'price to performance' the best, but one that would squeeze out every bit of quality from the 5500's that you could possibly get from them..
and b) be ready to handle 2 high end monitors when they come along..
What would that soundcard (in your opinion) be?.. hmmm
:Luca