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Your take on the Apogee

D

DangerIsGo

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Messages
3,000
Does anyone own the Swiftech Apogee and are able to tell how it does? I heard of issues with it such as copper shreadings in the block, and a thin layer of material on the outside that may cause a problem. Has swiftech fixed this yet or is it still an issue? What would you recommend if one was to get the Apex Ultra? Keep the Apogee or sell it and get a storm?
 
I am considering to buy the new Apex kit, but I am quite disappointed. Considering that the apogee costs $30 less retail than the storm, I am suprised that the retail price for the kit is still the same. I do not like the idea that I am getting a product that I think is inferior, costs less to manufacture, yet I am still supposed to pay the same price.

If the retail price was adjusted accordingly, I would consider buying it, but currently I am disgruntled about this issue. I would much rather have the storm.
 
real useful post dillusion. anyway my kit will arrive tuesday so i could let you better know then. It appears the shavings issue has been lessened, but not completely resolved. The only way to really know if they have re-designed the block housing would be to try flexing it compared to an old one or cut it in half and see, neither of which I'm willing to try. Something that I think noone has really mentioned is that it is a much less restrictive block than the storm, which should allow better flow for additional blocks in a loop, such a GPU. I will have such a configuration, and I think my loop overall will benefit from the apogee, while the storm may of given a degree or so better performance, I feel it is worth it to allow a faster loop. Obviously this block was designed to keep costs low while staying on par with the storm, and swiftech has done just that, although with some quality control issues still to work out. you may want to do like I did and lurk around the forums for a while, do your own research on the major manuafacturers and read as many reviews as you can before making your decision. (This will be my first plunge into watercooling, so anyone out there correct me if ive made some horribly wrong assumptions or observations.)
 
arnemetis said:
real useful post dillusion.
Click to expand...

I would have said something further but i would just get flamed for using small tubing so i stopped short, sorry.
 
Ive been reading reviews of the Apex kit and from every site that reviewed it, they gave it great reviews. So thats the one im looking to get. As far as the Apogee goes, I guess Ill give it a shot. If it does spring a leak, will I be able to return it to swiftech for a replacement or something?
 
look up...

you want the explaination?

I think/in my experience:

1) All WC setups cool the same- less pieces of shit like thermaltakes and the evercool things
2) the apogee uses 3/8 and 1/2 tubing, which i think is pointless given it cools within +-3c of everything else
3) swiftech quality control sucks, reguardless of what anyone here wants to think
4) swiftech blocks are ugly
5) swiftech pumps seem to fail more than others, for some reason, see #3
6) some of us buy it just to spite people with 10mm tubing and brag about it later for no reason

by all means, buy an apex kit- its great and will cool awesomely, but will it work the same as it does the first day in two months? who knows..
 
just got my apogee installed. it's awesome!

32 C at idle with fx53 and 1/2 ID tubing.
 
As far as the apex kit,and the apogee itself.

There are a few issues with the apogee that I dont like. The machining issues are one thing, but the excessively thin material is another that cant be ignored (poor engineering as opposed to a bad QC). And, it's basicly reverting to an old style of block to save cash / make cash on swiftechs part. The storm was/is an awesome block, and it costs as much or less than the less capable block. If you havn't actually bought the kit yet... look for an APEX Extreme kit, they come with the storms.

<off topic>
Dillusion said:
I would have said something further but i would just get flamed for using small tubing so i stopped short, sorry.
Click to expand...

Its funny cause the only thing you said is what actually starts the flame wars, then you go ahead and say the rest anyways... but I digress.

As for your reasoning to go small bore... right. To me it seems like all the small bore setups usually end up looking far too complicated to be considered pretty. Lines shooting off in all directions, random 90* turns, and FREAKING HUGE pumps. They just all look like crap to me. Not to mention the increased cost of (specificly) AC systems (liek yours, on both counts).

Granted this whole argument has gone on before... I should probly just stop here.
</off topic>
 
Somehow im getting the feeling everyone is going to be selling their Apogee from the looks of it to get the storm
 
Dillusion said:
look up...

you want the explaination?

I think/in my experience:

1) All WC setups cool the same- less pieces of shit like thermaltakes and the evercool things
2) the apogee uses 3/8 and 1/2 tubing, which i think is pointless given it cools within +-3c of everything else
Click to expand...

Contradicting yourself? Everything cools the same and then you say they are different but not by much?

3) swiftech quality control sucks, reguardless of what anyone here wants to think
Click to expand...

So they have a quality control issue on the first few runs of a new block...boohoo. AC had quality control issues for awhil on some of their blocks as well. Give the company a lil while to fix it first.

4) swiftech blocks are ugly
Click to expand...
Your opinion, and that is fine.
5) swiftech pumps seem to fail more than others, for some reason, see #3
Click to expand...
Not true, I dont know where you got that idea. The only pump swiftech has ever used that was prone to failure was the mcp600, which they stopped using long ago for that exact reason. (even then the failure rate wasn't that bad, just a bit worse than normal) Other pumps have had problems too...
6) some of us buy it just to spite people with 10mm tubing and brag about it later for no reason

by all means, buy an apex kit- its great and will cool awesomely, but will it work the same as it does the first day in two months? who knows..
Click to expand...

The APEX is just as likely to work the same in two months, or more likely, than any other kit on the market.

How about you express your opinion, and support it, about the block in the first place, rather than thread crapping and saying "swiftech sucks". Thread crapping is in general frowned upon.


About the Apogee, I think it is a fine low cost, low restriction block. I dont like the way that Swiftech is trying to place it as an ultra high performance block, because I dont feel it is.
 
Thanks Eras :) So you would say sell the Apogee for as much as I can (either here or eBay) and get the storm? I can find the ultra kit a lot cheaper online than the extreme. So instead of picking up the extreme, i just pick up a storm block and sell; the apogee?
 
fun fun :D I'd still like someone to comment on my theory that this 'cheaper' block, which I am not argueing here compared to the storm; will have the added benefit of being less restrictive, thus benefiting other blocks in the loop such as GPU or northbridge. If this should become a seperate thread let me know, seems this could be a good general apogee topic... By the way, with the apogee going for $50 new, i doubt you will get much for one on ebay and such :(
 
arnemetis said:
fun fun :D I'd still like someone to comment on my theory that this 'cheaper' block, which I am not argueing here compared to the storm; will have the added benefit of being less restrictive, thus benefiting other blocks in the loop such as GPU or northbridge. If this should become a seperate thread let me know, seems this could be a good general apogee topic... By the way, with the apogee going for $50 new, i doubt you will get much for one on ebay and such :(
Click to expand...
as i have stated previously, i think that smart shoppers looking for a low restriction block should look into picking up a clearance MCW6002.

it performs marginally better than the apogee, has better build quality, has very little flow restriction and should be going on sale at any stores who have remaining stock.

even the "restrictive" storm works quite well in a multi-block loop, with a temp change on the GPUs of about 1C going between it at the less restrictive apogee, at least according to orkan's quick comparison in his own loop.
 
.....so what I'm getting out of this is really that is does not matter....all loops/blocks perform close enough that is does not matter? damnit I regret the kit i have on the way :(
 
arnemetis said:
.....so what I'm getting out of this is really that is does not matter....all loops/blocks perform close enough that is does not matter? damnit I regret the kit i have on the way :(
Click to expand...


That is the low flow hype talking. Depending upon the equipment you have in your computer you may or may not see a performance increase with increased cooling. Then again, when you can get close to the best performance for the same price (or cheaper) as most other solutions why not?
 
Erasmus354 said:
That is the low flow hype talking. Depending upon the equipment you have in your computer you may or may not see a performance increase with increased cooling. Then again, when you can get close to the best performance for the same price (or cheaper) as most other solutions why not?
Click to expand...

Here is a taste of a Storm running 6mm plug n cool with an Aquastream. Temps should get better as it only has about 45 minutes to set the AS. l0l

storm.JPG
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Here is a taste of a Storm running 6mm plug n cool with an Aquastream. Temps should get better as it only has about 45 minutes to set the AS. l0l

http://home.socal.rr.com/rickcain/images/storm.JPG
Click to expand...


so what does that have to do with the apogee? And showing us one temp doesn't show anything either, given the inaccuracies of temp probes, varrying ambient temps, and a slew of other variables. You cant draw a conclusion from one temp :rolleyes:
 
arnemetis said:
.....so what I'm getting out of this is really that is does not matter....all loops/blocks perform close enough that is does not matter? damnit I regret the kit i have on the way :(
Click to expand...

You WIN!!!
 
Erasmus354 said:
so what does that have to do with the apogee? And showing us one temp doesn't show anything either, given the inaccuracies of temp probes, varrying ambient temps, and a slew of other variables. You cant draw a conclusion from one temp :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I think if the truth smacked you upside the head you would come up with some reason to say it really wasn't the truth. :D
 
Top Nurse said:
I think if the truth smacked you upside the head you would come up with some reason to say it really wasn't the truth. :D
Click to expand...


So which of my concerns is invalid TN?

The one about wanting some more data to go with the pic? He could be using water chilled to -40 to get those temps for all we know.

Or perhaps it is my concern about the wide degree of variability between different setups. He could at least have included some before and after temps of the same system to help give us some perspective.

Or just MAYBE it was my concern as to what the storm has to do with someones thoughts on the apogee?


Please elaborate on my concerns, or add something to the thread, instead of trying to blindly insult me. Did I ever say "OMG IT CANT BE TRUE?" I think I was just asking for more information.... :rolleyes:
 
The Apogee is a great block, you just need to check it before you use it.

Open it up and look for shavings.

It will work as well as most of the water blocks out there if not better only due to factors beyond our control.

If you want the BEST water block then the Apogee and the Storm aren't the best, you'd have to contact Cathar to get one and then be placed in a waiting list.

It's funny how the water cooling section has turned to the video card section due to differences in opinions which, I must say, are quite stupid given that some of us speak before we think and then try to back it up and I'm not talking about Erasmus !!

Help the OP, post something useful or get back to your computer and overclock it some more. :D
 
Erasmus354 said:
Please elaborate on my concerns, or add something to the thread, instead of trying to blindly insult me. Did I ever say "OMG IT CANT BE TRUE?" I think I was just asking for more information.... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

That's the problem. The information being presented is never good enough for you. It always has to be to your exact specifications. :shrug:
 
Top Nurse said:
That's the problem. The information being presented is never good enough for you. It always has to be to your exact specifications. :shrug:
Click to expand...


When have I ever said that? Any information given without a context is useless, that is true not only for watercooling, but for everything....
 
Erasmus and Top Nurse - please refer to the thread title, and then refer to the rules. Get back on topic.
 
mohammedtaha said:
It's funny how the water cooling section has turned to the video card section due to differences in opinions which, I must say, are quite stupid given that some of us speak before we think and then try to back it up and I'm not talking about Erasmus !!
Click to expand...


Yep, about time to split the water cooling section into small bore/big bore. :p
 
The storm is mildy wore than the apogee...swiftech had some control issues but overall a great company with great people working for them. If the Apogee doesn't doesn't improve in a few months then I would be shocked.
 
Steeeeve said:
The storm is mildy wore than the apogee...swiftech had some control issues but overall a great company with great people working for them. If the Apogee doesn't doesn't improve in a few months then I would be shocked.
Click to expand...
the storm is worse according to swiftech who has a vested interest in selling the cheaper to produce block, the apogee.

independant testing is showing something a bit different.

for myself, i wouldn't throw away the apogee by any means, but i would also not choose to purchase one in the first place: i would get the storm and other parts of my choosing, just to avoid the POTENTIAL for problems that the apogee presents.
 
Steeeeve said:
The storm is mildy wore than the apogee...swiftech had some control issues but overall a great company with great people working for them. If the Apogee doesn't doesn't improve in a few months then I would be shocked.
Click to expand...


Hook, line and sinker...
 
went through my boxes from fedex and ups like an early xmas today :p was dissapointed to find shavings and some remaining pieces left in my mcw55, which i cleaned and manually removed myself, what a shame :( and I tried to take my apogee apart to check for the same, but one of the screws is rounded off, fresh from the factory! :eek: from what I coudl see looking down through the molding, the diamond finish of the apogee was superior to that of my mcw55. The molding of the apogee is unacceptable for my standards, with some extra plastic having bled through the mold where the o-ring is supposed to go on one barb connected, cleared it away with a knife. (worked for a plastics place for 4 years, this would have been a rejected part where I was...) I guess the good news is everything else is ok, no damaged radiator at least. Overall slightly disappointed with the experience as a whole, hopefully it will at least perform well and not leak.
 
the Apogee is a decent block, but not as good as the storm, not sure if its been posted here, but here's a link to a review of the Apogee block from SystemCooling:

http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_apogee-01.html

Im not sure i could trust the Apogee given the quality control issues, plus in this independent test the Apogee didnt do very well at all...I'll wait for more test before i make a final conclusion, but it doesn't look good for the Apogee. If had to choose right now, id go for Storm.
 
now that ive been running my new Storm for several hours letting the AS5 cook, im seeing about a 1 or maybe 1.5C drop. Overall its running just a hair cooler than my Apogee. But you gotta take into account the mount and other variables etc. Im happy though...
 
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