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You Wont Believe This

T

theseeker

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
2,245
We recently moved and I have a neighbor who is as crazy as I am. He plays around with computers like I do. Strangely enough he was in to H2O cooling about 2 years ago. He has tried just about every H2O manufacturer out there. I told him about my new rig and that I was going to H2O cool it with AC gear. He was quite familiar, to my surprise, about AC. So last night he said, "I'll bet you 20 bucks that I can better or at least match your temps on air." I said why not, bring it on. So he showed up this morning with his box of goodies and we fired up the new rig. We loaded windows on the new 150 gb raptor, very quickly I might add, and waited 15 minutes and recored the temps. Room temp was 22C and the CPU temps were 28 for CPU 1 using the XT and 29.5 for CPU 2 using the EVO. Then we ran PRIME for 45 minutes and had the following temps CPU 1 31, CPU 2 33.
We shut everything down and removed the H2O blocks, PITA, and cleaned the CPU's, applied AS5 and then we installed the two CPU air coolers. I must say I didnt like their appearance, but a bet is a bet. After installation we had some great mexican food and began round two. Same scenario, room temp was 22 and we did the same exercise, 15 minutes of windows followed by 45 minutes of PRIME. Idle temps were identical and the PRIME temps never went above 1C over H2O! I lost 20 bucks. The cooler was a Zalman CNPS 9500 and worked like a champ. It was noticeably louder, but it worked very well for much less $$$. It does make one think.
 
It's not impossible to match or even beat most WC temps with Air cooling.
Coolers like the Ninja, SI-120 and Hyper 6+ can really pull a lot of heat away from the CPU.

But WC gives you the added bonus of lower nosie!
 
Majin said:
It's not impossible to match or even beat most WC temps with Air cooling.
Coolers like the Ninja, SI-120 and Hyper 6+ can really pull a lot of heat away from the CPU.

But WC gives you the added bonus of lower nosie!
Click to expand...

Not to mention saving $$$.
 
BellaCroix said:
Not using AC gear. :D
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My neighbor has a closet full of every type of H2O gear imaginable. According to him, none of it is that much better than the best air coolers.
 
theseeker said:
No, WTF are you talking about? AC gear is somewhat expensive, as you may have heard.
Click to expand...

You need a grammar class then. Your lack of said grammar made your post refer to WC as saving money, as another post also pointed out.
 
isnt the best part having a neighbor who like computers as much as you? I wish there was someone around here like that.
 
Ominous Gamer said:
You need a grammar class then. Your lack of said grammar made your post refer to WC as saving money, as another post also pointed out.
Click to expand...

That was your perception. I was not stating that H2O cooling was a money saver! I was stating quite the opposite. My point was simplistic, or at least I thought so. I was somewhat astounded by the fact that AIR cooling could come so close to H2O cooling, and I was looking for feedback on the topic of Air vs. H2O cooling.
 
Not another AC flaming match :rolleyes:

AC stuff Is expensive, but don't forget the materials, machining, importing, mark-ups, and customs fees. Not to mention, not particualrly more expensive than say... innovatek or other big-bore. Cuplex Pro is $69 at sharka, Inno. XX-Flow is $59, on sale from $79.
 
Pkirk618 said:
isnt the best part having a neighbor who like computers as much as you? I wish there was someone around here like that.
Click to expand...

yeah, so do I.

I got into water to satiatemy need to tinker, not so much for reduced temps. If I wasn't into my cooling I'd go back to air with a 120mm Zalman HSF and a GPU one to match.
 
theseeker said:
My neighbor has a closet full of every type of H2O gear imaginable. According to him, none of it is that much better than the best air coolers.
Click to expand...

I agree.
I have AMD rigs and Ive had Pentium D rigs.

With AMD there is a minimal dif, they run so damn cool anyway (idle wise mostly)

But with the Pentium D chips, water-cooling is magical with it...and there is a HUGE noticeable dif all the way around.
 
Bbq said:
Not another AC flaming match :rolleyes:

AC stuff Is expensive, but don't forget the materials, machining, importing, mark-ups, and customs fees. Not to mention, not particualrly more expensive than say... innovatek or other big-bore. Cuplex Pro is $69 at sharka, Inno. XX-Flow is $59, on sale from $79.
Click to expand...

I am not flaming, I own almost as much AC gear as TN does!
 
qbackin said:
I agree.
I have AMD rigs and Ive had Pentium D rigs.

With AMD there is a minimal dif, they run so damn cool anyway :)

But with the Pentium D chips, water-cooling is magical with it...snd there is a HUGE noticeable dif.
Click to expand...

What cooler are you using with your AMD? I have two Opteron 254's.
 
I was just predicting the imminent AC vs other.


Also, when I made the "jump" from the Stock AMD to the Whitewater + dual heatercore + hydor L35, Temps went way down. Before, close to 40/55 idle/load, now closer to 30/35.
 
Add another $30 on top of the Innovatek blocks if you want a clamp :eek:

It's interesting that AC has the cheapest full card coolers. They are aluminum, but so are the Innovatek ones and they retail for a bigger premium.

Heatsink prices are getting higher. The other day someone linked to something called the "Mighty Machine" from 1CoolPC.com and it's upwards of $70 to $90, depending on the material used in the fan adaptor. That Zalman is kind of expensive too though.
 
i've worked with low end water (koolance exos1) and a variety of air coolers, including my new Ninja. I honestly like the air better. alot of people say water is so much more quieter. It can be in many cases, but with a quiet fan this heatsink freaking rules...nearly silent and keepings loads the same as my old exos.

If i ever decide to leave air again i will go for phase...that does indeed lower temps.
 
pump some volts into it and OC it a bit and then do an Air VS Water comparison... At stock clocks water will not show its ture benefits...
 
Budwise said:
pump some volts into it and OC it a bit and then do an Air VS Water comparison... At stock clocks water will not show its ture benefits...
Click to expand...

With this MB, TYAN K8WE, you cant OC much. Besides its two Opty 254's, almost like running two Fx-55's.
 
well, if you were to grab an Opteron 170 and a DFI, OC it to the max with 1.6v, give him a call on over and tell him you want to retest :)
 
Man, I've done a lot of cooling tests, and I can tell you there is not a air cooler out there that can keep my opty 165 below 50c. Air is fine for stock and some overclocking, but when you start pushing over 1.65 - 1.7 volts through a dual core air is gonna falter, big time...
 
theseeker said:
No, WTF are you talking about? AC gear is somewhat expensive, as you may have heard.
Click to expand...

and your point is......? :rolleyes:


kinda like saying a Mercedes or Rolls is "somewhat expensive"



in the dictionary under "redundant" it says "see redundant" :rolleyes:


:heart: to robin williams
 
were people under the impression that watercooling did that much better? The difference in temps between AC and WC will never justify the cost unless you want the "looks" and the low noise...those are really the only two things that make it worthwild to get.
 
Steeeeve said:
were people under the impression that watercooling did that much better? The difference in temps between AC and WC will never justify the cost unless you want the "looks" and the low noise...those are really the only two things that make it worthwild to get.
Click to expand...
push a bleeding edge overclock and the tune changes.

if you're talking stock or near stock: good air vs straight water just doesn't make a big difference in cool performance.

the gap widens with a prescott furnace or a heavily OC'd AMD.

for those who actually read test results........the outcome of this match should have been pretty obvious.
 
TheToE! said:
Thats what happens when you use German WC...LOL!
Click to expand...

thank you for the insightful, well thought out post. Too many ignorant dumbasses blurt out junior high playground insults instead of actually using logic, facts, and common sense in a persuasive argument of their opinon. I comend you, sir..... :eek:
 
Water cooling has it's uses. It can cool better than air, in a good amount of situations.
Super high end OC's and high volts do need extra cooling water cooling does great there.

I think the thing that many people are saying is that many of the new air coolers are matching the performace of lower end water cooling at a fraction of the cost.

the whole silence thing isn't even that much of a factor anymore with all of the quiet solutions out there now.
 
Germans engineer things very well, as do Italians, especially when it comes to cars.
That is not to say that Americans or Austrailians dont, obviously they do.
I bought AC because I liked the way it looked and I thought I would get consistent and good results. I have been very happy with the performance, but understand this was my first rodeo. I had no idea, my fault for not researching, that air cooling could get so close to the same performance. Having said that, I do not like the big hose look at all. Simply my taste. It may work better, then again it may not. IMO, nothing looks better than AC gear, once again my taste. I was just shocked that a $65 air cooler performed as well as my H2O block did, well at least very, very close. We all buy what we want and what we like. However, after today I just might go back to air cooling, but that is just my opinion.
 
theseeker said:
Germans engineer things very well, as do Italians, especially when it comes to cars.
That is not to say that Americans or Austrailians dont, obviously they do.
I bought AC because I liked the way it looked and I thought I would get consistent and good results. I have been very happy with the performance, but understand this was my first rodeo. I had no idea, my fault for not researching, that air cooling could get so close to the same performance. Having said that, I do not like the big hose look at all. Simply my taste. It may work better, then again it may not. IMO, nothing looks better than AC gear, once again my taste. I was just shocked that a $65 air cooler performed as well as my H2O block did, well at least very, very close. We all buy what we want and what we like. However, after today I just might go back to air cooling, but that is just my opinion.
Click to expand...
you know, i guess that's one way to take it........in my own case, when i sat down, did my homework, realized that watercooling wasn't going to perform a whole lot better than what i used to run: i upped the ante to higher performance cooling that straight water offers.

what water offers is good temps at low noise levels while overclocking seriously. if you're not overclocking seriously.........not a lot of point to it.
 
Bbq said:
Not another AC flaming match :rolleyes:

AC stuff Is expensive, but don't forget the materials, machining, importing, mark-ups, and customs fees. Not to mention, not particualrly more expensive than say... innovatek or other big-bore. Cuplex Pro is $69 at sharka, Inno. XX-Flow is $59, on sale from $79.
Click to expand...

How do you figure that Innovatek is big-bore? Most Innovatek kits I've ever looked at either used 8mm I.D. or 10mm I.D. tubing. If any of it was pushing 13mm tubing it was user done.

That's hardly "big bore" that's maybe midi bore or medium-large bore but, hell, the option for running that same sized tubing is there with A-C gear so does that make A-C gear big-bore too now?
 
madmat said:
How do you figure that Innovatek is big-bore? Most Innovatek kits I've ever looked at either used 8mm I.D. or 10mm I.D. tubing. If any of it was pushing 13mm tubing it was user done.

That's hardly "big bore" that's maybe midi bore or medium-large bore but, hell, the option for running that same sized tubing is there with A-C gear so does that make A-C gear big-bore too now?
Click to expand...

I meant, AC is no more expensive than Innovatek, or any manufacturer, for that matter. At least, not a particualrly huge amount as mentioned by the big bore people. It seems that they make it seem like OMFG CUPLEX XT $95208702837408230847012837590 2503 and OMFG DD TDX $5. It doesnt' work that way.

And Innovatek is more expensive than AC. The block is 20 more, the retention is 30. Not to mention thats just hte blocks.
 
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