You need some updates

M76

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
14,030
No, I don't fucking need any updates. You need them. And you're not even telling me what's in them. So fuck you I not just don't need them, I'm outright against them!

If you're going to force updates at least have the decency to ask nicely to allow me to install them, and give me the list of changes, and not act as if you're doing me a favour by interrupting me in the middle of work to install some mysterious update.



PS: If you don't get it this was a conversation between me and windows 10 slash microsoft.

I might have to go back to 7 after all. I can't take the fact that they're acting as if the user is air, and they own you and your computer and your data.
 
Yep.
They get more disgraceful the more time passes.
I'm still on 7 and am just as happy as when I first installed it. Actually more so now I know what I'm missing :p
Great OS.
 
  • Like
Reactions: M76
like this
Honestly if you're not playing DX12 games or needing to play DX12 games there's no absolutely crucial reason to run Windows 10, not even if it's free of cost (and still is if you know about the Accessibility bypass which is still open but could get closed at any time). Yes there can be an issue of hardware support in some situations but by and large, nope, no issues to worry about.
 
jimbob200521 said:
Windows 7 till it is no longer an option due to driver support or if the internet quits working on it.
Click to expand...

In the past, driver support did become an issue leading to obsolescence, but mostly it was a lack of software support that killed previous versions of Windows. Things like Chrome and iTunes simply stopped supporting older versions of Windows forcing them into obsolescence far earlier than Microsoft's continued support date.
 
BulletDust said:
In the past, driver support did become an issue leading to obsolescence, but mostly it was a lack of software support that killed previous versions of Windows. Things like Chrome and iTunes simply stopped supporting older versions of Windows forcing them into obsolescence far earlier than Microsoft's continued support date.
Click to expand...

I agree for the most part but with how hardware seems to be pretty far ahead of OS requirements, I hope that doesn't happen with Windows 7. I know it did with XP (tried to get a "memory build" going a while back and got tired of messing with it) but I wonder if OS adoptions of Windows 7 helped kill off XP for the majority...
 
M76 said:
I might have to go back to 7 after all. I can't take the fact that they're acting as if the user is air, and they own you and your computer and your data.
Click to expand...

Join the club. I'm moving back to 7 on my new build. 10 is offering me nothing, the way I use a PC, over 7. And, I found the little annoyances you have. I'm not bashing 10, but it doesn't work as well as 7 does for me.
 
bigdogchris said:
I'd rather run an updated Linux flavor than Windows 7.
Click to expand...
Updates for 3 more years...No idea why you'd toss that aside for Linux unless Linux suits you anyway (which makes the notion of whether Windows being updated or not pointless).
 
zero2dash said:
Updates for 3 more years...No idea why you'd toss that aside for Linux unless Linux suits you anyway (which makes the notion of whether Windows being updated or not pointless).
Click to expand...
In a non-gaming environment I would run Linux over 7.

7 just seems slow compared to 8.1 and 10.
 
I'm sorry but... boot times? Seriously? People consider that to be relevant in any degree whatsoever anymore? We're not in the day and age of PIO mode hard drives with at best 33MB/s read rates because of the mode and single core single channel SDRAM running from 4200 rpm hard drives during the boot process, such things shouldn't even be considered anymore.

Who the hell turns their desktop or laptop computers off?

Anyway, Windows 8/8.1/10 seem faster than Windows 7 because of so much effort put into optimizing the GUI's smoothness and transitions and GPU support for the UI itself, not because the underlying code of the core OS is actually better or more efficient. Make no mistake: Windows 10 isn't something new, it's the same old code given a new finish more than anything else with some improvements here and there.

Boot times, I mean really, that's hilarious. :D
 
Tiberian said:
I'm sorry but... boot times? Seriously? People consider that to be relevant in any degree whatsoever anymore? We're not in the day and age of PIO mode hard drives with at best 33MB/s read rates because of the mode and single core single channel SDRAM running from 4200 rpm hard drives during the boot process, such things shouldn't even be considered anymore.

Who the hell turns their desktop or laptop computers off?

Anyway, Windows 8/8.1/10 seem faster than Windows 7 because of so much effort put into optimizing the GUI's smoothness and transitions and GPU support for the UI itself, not because the underlying code of the core OS is actually better or more efficient. Make no mistake: Windows 10 isn't something new, it's the same old code given a new finish more than anything else with some improvements here and there.

Boot times, I mean really, that's hilarious. :D
Click to expand...

In my experience Windows 7 takes longer than Windows 8, 8.1 and 10, not to mention most modern Linux distro's, to boot. In fact when I was running Windows 7 on a faster PC than my Linux PC with the faster PC having the faster SSD of the two machines, my Linux PC still booted far faster than my Windows 7 machine.

www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2406668,00.asp

They're only comparing Windows 7 and 8.1, but you get the idea.

Furthermore, the only PC I suspend is my HTPC, everything else boots from a cold start - Is that OK with you?
 
Last edited:
BulletDust said:
Boot times are without a doubt slow under W7 in comparison to other operating systems.
Click to expand...
I don't think so. For me W10 even seem to boot slower than 7 did. But it's irrelevant because by far the longest part of the cold start procedure is the POST of the MB. I mean my laptop is already into the desktop running 7, when my primary pc even starts to boot windows. Despite it having a 7 year old SSD as a system drive and a CPU that's worth about one twentieth or even less than my desktop.
 
Well as for boot times. You must build a pc for fast boots if you want fast boots! That means spend the money on a very fast SSD PCI-E nvm. I built my system in 2015 with a Intel 750 Series 1.2TB PCIe NVMe 3.0 x4 SSD And Windows 7. My boot times from cold like 32 f are seconds. My next system will have Samsung 950 which is a lot faster then my Intel 750. And will have Windows 7 unless microsoft fixes there shit.
 
My Windows 7 boots in under 20 seconds on an 840 Pro thats almost 4 years old. Quite an old windows install too.
Thats a full boot not a sleep boot.
I have no performance issues with Windows 7, Windows 10 brings nothing but aggravation for me.
 
Damnit it got me too. Defer updates only saved me until now.

I would pay for a version of windows that was barebones and only updated security patches automatically.
I dont want cortana, the store, edge browser, the xbox app which when I launch counter strike even counter strike is smart enough to know that the xbox app features are impacting its performance and tells me to disable them.

I looked into getting the ltsb version but apparently its not easy to find and / or would be illegal to install it. I like knowing my windows is activated properly since I paid for it and didnt pirate it. I'm sure even if you did use it eventually it would be missing some critical feature to run the latest DX12 games.

Fucks sake.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPI
like this
Airbrushkid said:
Well as for boot times. You must build a pc for fast boots if you want fast boots! That means spend the money on a very fast SSD PCI-E nvm. I built my system in 2015 with a Intel 750 Series 1.2TB PCIe NVMe 3.0 x4 SSD And Windows 7. My boot times from cold like 32 f are seconds. My next system will have Samsung 950 which is a lot faster then my Intel 750. And will have Windows 7 unless microsoft fixes there shit.
Click to expand...
You can have an SSD that is 1 million times faster it still won't make the Motherboard POST faster.
 
I must be in the minority, I always turn off the BIOS full screen logo and ask it to display all the data instead. I like seeing it and I miss when it would count / check the memory installed and show even more data.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPI
like this
It's a great time to make the switch to Linux. You still have a few years of Windows 7 support and it doesn't look like Microsoft has anything worthwhile in the pipeline.

I moved everything to Linux Mint back in October and couldn't be happier. Linux has finally become a viable desktop OS, even for gaming.
 
M76 said:
I don't think so. For me W10 even seem to boot slower than 7 did. But it's irrelevant because by far the longest part of the cold start procedure is the POST of the MB. I mean my laptop is already into the desktop running 7, when my primary pc even starts to boot windows. Despite it having a 7 year old SSD as a system drive and a CPU that's worth about one twentieth or even less than my desktop.
Click to expand...

I can honestly say that when I upgraded (if you can call it that!) from Windows 7 to Windows 10 the first thing I noticed was the massively improved boot times. My Linux workstation used to boot way faster than the Windows 7 machine, both running SSD's with the Windows machine being the more powerful system at the time - It's one of the things that resulted in me beginning to use Linux as my main OS. Once I upgraded to Windows 10 the first thing I noticed was how fast it booted, it was easily just as fast as my Linux workstation even with fast boot disabled.

I recently swapped my HTPC from Windows Media Center/Media Browser to Ubuntu MATE/Kodi/MythTV as WMC/MB simply isn't supported anymore, and I can assure you beyond all doubt that the Linux install boots way faster than the Windows 7 install ever did - In fact the Ubuntu install only takes a touch longer to start from a cold boot than the Windows 7 PC used to power up from S3 - Suspend to RAM.

My Windows machine runs a 2700k @ 5Ghz on an ASUS Maximus IV Extreme Z mobo and it's never reliably woken up from sleep - Hence the reason I don't use any form of sleep on that machine. These days I hardly ever even turn the machine on, so there's even less reason to put the PC to sleep and I just power it down.
 
You know why 10 boots so fast? Because it loads desktop, then everything else. Watch the taskbar.

7 loads the desktop and everything else at the same time. 7 boot gives you a fully usable computer; 10 boot gives you the illusion of a usable computer, and then you wait another 5+ seconds for everything else to be loaded. (This is on SSD's btw.)

Seriously - look at the taskbar. Watch all your background process icons to pop up after 10 has booted.
 
zero2dash said:
You know why 10 boots so fast? Because it loads desktop, then everything else. Watch the taskbar.

7 loads the desktop and everything else at the same time. 7 boot gives you a fully usable computer; 10 boot gives you the illusion of a usable computer, and then you wait another 5+ seconds for everything else to be loaded. (This is on SSD's btw.)

Seriously - look at the taskbar. Watch all your background process icons to pop up after 10 has booted.
Click to expand...

I'm talking from post to fully booted.

From post to fully booted I can assure you beyond all doubt, my Windows 10 PC boots far faster than my Windows 7 PC ever did.

And as stated, my HTPC swapped to Ubuntu also boots far faster than Windows 7 ever did.

I'm not even that keen on Windows 10, what would motivate me to make up such a claim?
 
BulletDust said:
I'm talking from post to fully booted.

From post to fully booted I can assure you beyond all doubt, my Windows 10 PC boots far faster than my Windows 7 PC ever did.

And as stated, my HTPC swapped to Ubuntu also boots far faster than Windows 7 ever did.

I'm not even that keen on Windows 10, what would motivate me to make up such a claim?
Click to expand...

Is your dick bigger than ours too?
 
Windows 8.1 and 10 appearing to "boot fast" is just a hibernated kernel resume, not a full initialization - an image of the Windows kernel and loaded drivers are saved to the hiberfile (C:\hiberfil.sys)

Win 7, OTOH, does a full init every time. If you boot 8.1 or 10 with a full init then it'll be as slow or slower than W7.

MS was genius for this technical trickery to create the perception that "OMG it bewtz so fast it must be the fastest Windows ever!".

Anyway it's something to be aware of because there are times the kernel may need a full init, or you'll just be resuming into the same bugged kernel or driver state and wondering why a "reboot" isn't clearing it up. I just leave Fastboot disabled in 8.1.
 
Last edited:
DPI said:
You clowns.. Windows 8.1 and 10 appearing to "boot fast" is just a hibernated kernel resume, not a full initialization - an image of the Windows kernel and loaded drivers are saved to the hiberfile (C:\hiberfil.sys)

Win 7, OTOH, does a full init every time. If you boot 8.1 or 10 with a full init then it'll be as slow or slower than W7.

MS was genius for this technical trickery to create the perception that "OMG it bewtz so fast it must be the fastest Windows ever!".

Anyway it's something to be aware of because there are times the kernel may need a full init, or you'll just be resuming into the same bugged kernel or driver state, wondering why a "reboot" isn't clearing it up. I just leave Fastboot disabled in 8.1.
Click to expand...
First thing I always do after installing any windows is "powercfg -h off"
This way W10 boots slower than W7 on my laptop. But at least I know I'm getting a clean slait each time I turn on my computer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPI
like this
M76 said:
First thing I always do after installing any windows is "powercfg -h off"
This way W10 boots slower than W7 on my laptop. But at least I know I'm getting a clean slait each time I turn on my computer.
Click to expand...

Yep. Besides, who doesn't sleep their PC between sessions? The days of shutdown are so ancient.
 
DPI said:
Yep. Besides, who doesn't sleep their PC between sessions? The days of shutdown are so ancient.
Click to expand...
I'd be lying if I said I can't put my machine to sleep because of W10, but it's partly true. There is no official driver for my DAC for W10, and while it works with the last W7 driver, I can't put my computer to sleep because it won't wake up. When I resume from sleep my USB DAC stays off. So it might not be entirely green but I rather leave the computer on if I only go away for 1-2 hours. And turn it off completely when I'm away for longer than a few hours.
 
M76 said:
I'd be lying if I said I can't put my machine to sleep because of W10, but it's partly true. There is no official driver for my DAC for W10, and while it works with the last W7 driver, I can't put my computer to sleep because it won't wake up. When I resume from sleep my USB DAC stays off. So it might not be entirely green but I rather leave the computer on if I only go away for 1-2 hours. And turn it off completely when I'm away for longer than a few hours.
Click to expand...

Which, as I mentioned previously is the case for me also. Sleep simply doesn't work on my Windows machine, although I do use it on my daughters NUC running Windows 10 and it works fine. I always disable fast boot, it causes more issues than noticeable speed improvements in almost every PC I work on.
 
M76 said:
First thing I always do after installing any windows is "powercfg -h off"
This way W10 boots slower than W7 on my laptop. But at least I know I'm getting a clean slait each time I turn on my computer.
Click to expand...
I realized this is subject to misunderstanding.
So to make it clear. Windows 7 boots faster on my 5 year old 1400mhz AMD laptop that achieves a whopping 154 points in Cinebench 15, and booting from a 7 year old kingston 60GB SSD no less, that doesn't support trim, has no wear leveling, and wasn't very fast even when it was new.

Than Windows 10 does on my almost brand new broadwell-e gaming PC with a much newer Samsung 840 evo SSD as the system drive.
 
M76 said:
I realized this is subject to misunderstanding.
So to make it clear. Windows 7 boots faster on my 5 year old 1400mhz AMD laptop that achieves a whopping 154 points in Cinebench 15, and booting from a 7 year old kingston 60GB SSD no less, that doesn't support trim, has no wear leveling, and wasn't very fast even when it was new.

Than Windows 10 does on my almost brand new broadwell-e gaming PC with a much newer Samsung 840 evo SSD as the system drive.
Click to expand...

That's so odd, when Installing W10 on my Windows machine upgrading from W7 the first thing I noticed was the vast improvement in boot times. Perhaps SSD controller quirks, who knows?
 
BulletDust said:
That's so odd, when Installing W10 on my Windows machine upgrading from W7 the first thing I noticed was the vast improvement in boot times. Perhaps SSD controller quirks, who knows?
Click to expand...
It's already explined by DPI just in the post I quoted. It's fake. Windows 10 uses the fastboot feature which is nothing but hibernation in disguise. As soon as you disable that there is no significant difference in boot times. It's just based on how many drivers and crap it has to load just as any other OS.
 
M76 said:
It's already explined by DPI just in the post I quoted. It's fake. Windows 10 uses the fastboot feature which is nothing but hibernation in disguise. As soon as you disable that there is no significant difference in boot times. It's just based on how many drivers and crap it has to load just as any other OS.
Click to expand...

I disable fastboot, it causes more issues than any noticeable difference in boot times.
 
Windows 10 has a priority for loading the GUI aspects first and foremost which gives the end user the impression of it being a faster boot time but it is artificial in the long run because after the GUI aspects appear it's still loading quite a bit of stuff in the background. Windows 7 does this differently as expected with a more traditional "load the guts" kind of situation so it's more accurate overall if you measure Windows 7 vs Windows 10 in a purely cold boot situation.

Regardless, my question still stands: Who the hell turns their desktop or laptop computers off? :D
 
Tiberian said:
Regardless, my question still stands: Who the hell turns their desktop or laptop computers off? :D
Click to expand...

I turn my Windows PC off for the reasons mentioned above, that coupled with the fact that I hardly even use the thing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top