You know it's bad for ATI when....

well the guy posted in NVNEWS.NET about how they felt about his review.... very nice indeed :) and no biased.
 
I think it was anandtech that had the crossfire review. I know it's not a final version, but the 7800GTX kicked ass on crossfire X850XT(2 of them) in a bunch of benchmarks. The 7800GTX is beyond a shadow of a doubt a great card. :eek:

I think Nvidia has the crown for the time being.
 
Shmuckety said:
I think Nvidia has the crown for the time being.
Click to expand...

There's no doubt. What will be interesting is to see if the crown stays put or changes hands frequently in the next year or so.
 
wow.. hell must of frozen over.. I never thought I'd see the day when rage3d would have a non biased nVidia review... everyone must've left that ran that site before or somehting.. lol
 
eh, ATi owned for a while, now nvidia owns, ATi will come back and own again, and so on, and so on....

just be glad you still have 2 major competitors or we would all be running on intel EXTREME....

:rolleyes:
 
Selecter said:
eh, ATi owned for a while, now nvidia owns, ATi will come back and own again, and so on, and so on....

just be glad you still have 2 major competitors or we would all be running on intel EXTREME....

:rolleyes:
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Please don't roll your eyes, thank you.

As for the crown, it's been 2 releases on Nvidia's side, the 6800Ultra/GT, and now the 7800GTX, ATi's crown was 1, the ATI 9700/9800Pro.
 
whoami said:
Please don't roll your eyes, thank you.

As for the crown, it's been 2 releases on Nvidia's side, the 6800Ultra/GT, and now the 7800GTX, ATi's crown was 1, the ATI 9700/9800Pro.
Click to expand...

Well if your counting.... TNT, TNT2, Geforce256, Geforce2, 3, 4, 6, 7...... :)

8 to 1 really.
 
How can you say the 7 has won when the R520 isn't out yet? By that logic you can say that ATI has won the past few generations...the X800 is faster than the 5xxx series, the 9700 was faster than the 4xxx series...
 
finalgt said:
How can you say the 7 has won when the R520 isn't out yet? By that logic you can say that ATI has won the past few generations...the X800 is faster than the 5xxx series, the 9700 was faster than the 4xxx series...
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It's funny how alot of people keep saying the X800 series was to compete with the FX line of cards from Nvidia.

People, the X800 and sub-models were to compete with Nvidia's 6800 series.

As for the R520 not being out yet, sorry but it's MIA, and the 7800GTX is out NOW, so it is the fastest. When or if the R520 is out, then it will compete with whatever else was released when it itself got released.
 
Using logic one would assume that 2 X850s in crossfire would run about as good as 2 6800 Ultras in SLI. Comparing it to the 7800GTX isn't fair.
 
I've been waiting to see a picture of this "crown" everyone talks about. Why can't people just say "performance advantage?" Or, if that's too much work, how about just "the lead?"
 
whoami said:
It's funny how alot of people keep saying the X800 series was to compete with the FX line of cards from Nvidia.

People, the X800 and sub-models were to compete with Nvidia's 6800 series.

As for the R520 not being out yet, sorry but it's MIA, and the 7800GTX is out NOW, so it is the fastest. When or if the R520 is out, then it will compete with whatever else was released when it itself got released.
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I haven't seen anybody say that, ever, so I will assume that you misunderstood me and that your reading comprehension skills are lackluster at best.
 
whoami said:
Please don't roll your eyes, thank you.

As for the crown, it's been 2 releases on Nvidia's side, the 6800Ultra/GT, and now the 7800GTX, ATi's crown was 1, the ATI 9700/9800Pro.
Click to expand...

Actually the X800XTPE won in the last round so um yea. It won in more benchies than the ultra.

Don't be so blatantly biased :).

~Adam
 
Confusing time we're in really. The X800 cards generally win more games as far as a performance advantage.

But then you have people that mention the 6x00 series of cards support for SM3.0. Its a valid point, to a certain degree. There times when its useful and there's times when its not. Mainly the major fall back is that the new features so far call for a major lowering in other area's of quality. I generally believe SM3.0 is really only now showing its true use with the release of the 7800GTX and its slightly redesigned pipeline that allows for much stronger SM3.0 and newer feature support. IMO, its the only card that can really use SM3.0 and still keep a good level of IQ in other area's.

I think a big issue is that I havent really seen a site tackle a big article that shows us side by side comparisons of SM3.0 to the other options. And I havent seen one that really clearly shows how much each effect causes in performance loss.

Personally I believe if you want to go by strictly performance the X8x0XT PE cards are faster than the 6800U. The 6800GT was faster than the X8x00 Pro, but is the same performance of the X800XL.

Of course throw in your personal opinion on new features and how useful (or unuseful) and you have a very confusing mixture that makes it really hard to choose a card.
 
I think you are confusing terms skrying, SM3 increases performance and does little differently than sm2.

I think you are speaking of HDR which is a lighting effect that kills performance with the 6800 series. As well as backlighting.

~Adam
 
CleanSlate said:
Actually the X800XTPE won in the last round so um yea. It won in more benchies than the ultra.

Don't be so blatantly biased :).

~Adam
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Excuse me? Biased is just like calling me a fan boy, and I am not.

Just stating facts, and also, I'm actually an ATI user. My main machine has a 9800Pro 128MB card that still runs every game @ 1024x768.

Sucks you had to start the flames, grow up adam.
 
I'm mixing terms, not confusing them. I know the differences, 99% of the people here dont from what I gather. Its just simpler to bunch them all together for an easier understanding for all.

People still dont understand HDR is totally seperate from SM3.0. Though games often bunch it all together as one big "bonus package" to make it easier for everyont to understand.

Its gonna be even more confusing for some when a few games come out that use the pixel method to do HDR and then they'll be like "errr uhh i though you needed SM3.0 for that".
 
whoami said:
Excuse me? Biased is just like calling me a fan boy, and I am not.

Just stating facts, and also, I'm actually an ATI user. My main machine has a 9800Pro 128MB card that still runs every game @ 1024x768.

Sucks you had to start the flames, grow up adam.
Click to expand...

You stated no fact, you stated the opinion that 6800ultra/gt was better than the X800 series and I stated the fact that the X800XTPE which is the Ultra's main competitor beats it in most of the benchies. Then you called me immature and a flammer :confused: ...

~Adam
 
Skrying said:
I'm mixing terms, not confusing them. I know the differences, 99% of the people here dont from what I gather. Its just simpler to bunch them all together for an easier understanding for all.

People still dont understand HDR is totally seperate from SM3.0. Though games often bunch it all together as one big "bonus package" to make it easier for everyont to understand.

Its gonna be even more confusing for some when a few games come out that use the pixel method to do HDR and then they'll be like "errr uhh i though you needed SM3.0 for that".
Click to expand...

As long as you realize it, that's fine with me I guess... but dumbing down the lingo for the people on hardforum is like ... if you were a doctor dumbing down the lingo for medical students... it might work but they wont learn anything ;). Tell it how it is bro.

~Adam
 
CleanSlate said:
Then you called me immature and a flammer :confused: ...

~Adam
Click to expand...

I did?

whoami said:
Sucks you had to start the flames, grow up adam.
Click to expand...

Whoa. Now we're going beyond off-topic, guess you've accomplished your mission, I don't plan on going any further, can't win an argument online especially when going up against a kid.

I'm gone.

See ya.
 
CleanSlate said:
You stated no fact, you stated the opinion that 6800ultra/gt was better than the X800 series and I stated the fact that the X800XTPE which is the Ultra's main competitor beats it in most of the benchies. Then you called me immature and a flammer :confused: ...

~Adam
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Just because ATI's top card was faster doesn't mean they won the generation. Nvidia's market share was increasing while the opposite was true for ati. By the time the x800's became available in mass quantity the 7800gtx was ready any ways. They could have easily paper launched it before Christmas if they really needed to have the best card in the top spot but they didn't. The only reson for inovation is competion and if your beating the competion then why inovate.
 
That was a great review... seems very straight on to me.
 
Flak Monkey said:
Just because ATI's top card was faster doesn't mean they won the generation. Nvidia's market share was increasing while the opposite was true for ati. By the time the x800's became available in mass quantity the 7800gtx was ready any ways. They could have easily paper launched it before Christmas if they really needed to have the best card in the top spot but they didn't. The only reson for inovation is competion and if your beating the competion then why inovate.
Click to expand...

Then I guess the real winner of this generation was Intel with the absolutely mindblowing GMA900.
 
finalgt said:
I haven't seen anybody say that, ever, so I will assume that you misunderstood me and that your reading comprehension skills are lackluster at best.
Click to expand...

absolutely correct :D
 
Can't we all just say that the X800 and GF6 race, championship, shootout or however you visualize it was too close to call? Neither card won benchmarks by a consistant and sizable margin except for a few games which would bow to one card or the other. Nvidia picked up a lot more market share, but you know they lost a lot too with the FX and I'd be curious to know what their market share is now compared to what it was in the GF4 days.

As for the 7800 GTX, nvidia is in the perfect position right now. No competition, the only ones with SLI, they've stollen the wind out of ATI's crossfire AA modes. Every month without the r520 is a bigger handicap for ATI. I've noticed that the majority of people and review sites tend to make up their minds about which company "won" a bit premature, and ATI is not doing themselves any good with this no-show of theirs.

Seriously, it would take something in the ballpark of 20-30% performance over the 7800GTX for the r520 to turn enough heads to let ATI "win" after being absent so many months after the 7800 was released. And they'd better be packing some good, applicable features too. Like if they could pull off something like HDR and AA being used simultaniously, I'd be impressed. You know, something to one up transparent AA. If it's merely as good, or even just marginally better (5-10%) like the X800's were to the 6800's, and lacking once again in the feature department, then ATI won't "win".
 
Namork, you make it sound like the 7800 has been out since Xmas.

It's been out little over a month.
 
Yeah, it has been out for about a month. But a big difference is that it's been readily avaiable in volume since ;) .


And as for HDR and SM3.0 - they are totally different, and cmiiw, but true HDR FP16 is a requirement of the SM3.0 path (along with soft shadows and parallax mapping), which currently only nVidia cards, starting with the 6000 series, can do. Current ATI cards can do HDR lighting, but only which is specified in the SM2.0 path. Running HDR and SM3.0 can put a strain on a video card, but then so can AA/AF, as almost every review of every video card capable of any of those features has shown.

I have never been more impressed with the capablility of a video card to do any of this than like I am with the 7800GTX. The R520 should be an interesting addition to the market. I am really curious to see how ATI's implementation of HDR SM3.0 stacks up.
 
nobi125 said:
Using logic one would assume that 2 X850s in crossfire would run about as good as 2 6800 Ultras in SLI. Comparing it to the 7800GTX isn't fair.
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When the 7800GTX was released, there were numerous comparisons of a single 7800GTX vs SLI 6800Ultras. Is this unfair, too then? If you want to compare the XFire X850s and SLI 6800Us, then read the separate reviews that benchmark them separately in similar means and put 2 and 2 together ;) .

The X850XT is ATI's current flapship product. The 7800GTX is nVidia's current flagship product. That's what the comparisons are for. Since the R520 is not out, ATI has no choice but to compete with the 7800GTX now by means of their 800 series. :D
 
7800gtx could be just a bridge to the nxt generation with the R520 and the G71 finally in competition, could be

or else it could just be as everyone is taking 4granted that nvidia did their job by making the card availble much before ati

and as infact mentioned on this forum unless the new card from ati has somehting that will strike out and make ppl say 'it was worth the wait' well in that case *sigh* @ ati
 
|Leviathan| said:
7800gtx could be just a bridge to the nxt generation with the R520 and the G71 finally in competition, could be

or else it could just be as everyone is taking 4granted that nvidia did their job by making the card availble much before ati

and as infact mentioned on this forum unless the new card from ati has somehting that will strike out and make ppl say 'it was worth the wait' well in that case *sigh* @ ati
Click to expand...
The 7800 is not a bridge product. If it was, it would not have had such insane performance jumps.
Also, it would be called 6900 or 6850.
 
Not even picking that guy out but I love how some like to bag on the 7800 as not a big jump. Nv lets there partners OC higher than ATi jumps up their refreshes! They're right the GTX is lame, we should compare it to ATi's refesh the X850. We'll call that more of a yield refresh then anything. They are that gen's refreshes. Fair comaprison? Meh somewhat yes, somewhat no. If we can't compare GTX to anything now though.... who cares that R520 is coming out in a few months. We can't compare it to that for oh noes they had a few extra months just like NV has on the X850's.

It's all a jumble of points and you can see how they can be taken further. ATi and refreshes... well they've had several sad ones in their recent history. The 9800pro to XT for example. The x800 to x850 for example. So cut Nv some slack. BFG gives you more than an ATi refresh many times. One thing seems clear, blame it on X360 or what have you but ATi rested on their laurels hardcore. They milked the bad FX's for all they were worth, adding very little to the R300. The x800 series was a great idea to extend the life of their solid technology, but they stumbled out the gate with that, and furthermore... they aren't executing again. Great idea, x800, bigger is better approach.... hell they even seemed to convince us successfully that games like splinter cell chaos theory would not harp on SM3.0 during the useful life of their hardware... use the extra time this afforded you! The Xl was the most interesting card for me.

And we're enthusiasts, we're talking about capturing the hearts of enthusiasts with you flagship namestamp. Many of us buy up in the high range, maybe not an Ultra but a GT for example, maybe even when they were newer. Car buffs don't bicker about POS's we should leave the Intel junk at the door too.
 
Barnaby said:
wow.. hell must of frozen over.. I never thought I'd see the day when rage3d would have a non biased nVidia review... everyone must've left that ran that site before or somehting.. lol
Click to expand...


Is that they know something we dont and want to gain some aspect of credibility. They are either aware that ATI has failed and they are attempting a shot at legitimacy or...........the R520 is a beast.
 
Its Simple...
SLI 7800GTX > EVERYTHING!
Crossfire X850XT-PE (par) 7800GTX
7800GTX > X850XT-PE
Crossfire X850XT-PE > SLI 6800U
SLI 6800U > X850XT-PE
X850XT-PE > 6800U
 
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