You Have No Right To Sue Your Phone Company

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Thinking about suing your wireless carrier? Too bad, you signed away your rights when you agreed to your contract. :(


If you don’t like your wireless company’s service, or your current rate plan, you’re free to change providers. But if you think your wireless provider is breaking the law, you can’t sue the company; and it doesn’t matter which of the four major carriers you have, because they all strip their customers’ of their legal rights.
 
Damn those arbitration clauses. They have been abused so many times now that some states are working on bill to ban arbitration clauses since they are so much in the favor of the corporation instead of balance between consumer and company. Because of arbitration clauses, it allows companies to do things to consumers that would normally be illegal.

CFPB Considers Proposal to Ban Arbitration Clauses that Allow Companies to Avoid Accountability to Their Customers > Newsroom > Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

"Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility."
- Ambrose Bierce​
 
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Yeah they are such BS. Sometimes when you go to a new Dr's office, they will ask you to sign one, I ALWAYS decline, and make sure my wife never signs them either.
 
The upside, if you really have an issue with AT&T then taking them to small claims court could possible actually you some money for your problem, unlike a class action where the cost of the stamp to mail you a settlement check probably halved your settlement check.
 
I make my own agreements. Kind of like websites that say that using their website means they can collect information about you. Well, by them allowing me to use their website, they consent me to use any of their text or images to my own personal use. See? I can make up my own agreement policies, too. I can make up a lot of other stuff too like they do. "By having me agree to your contract, you are agreeing that I can nullify any conditions set forth in said contract". Easy as that. :)
 
Some of the Appeals Courts have already ruled the Arbitration clauses illegal and void. The 'least sophisticated consumer' cannot sign away their Constitutional rights to due process, even if they do sign a contract. Sorry. I'm surprised this hasn't made it to Scotus yet, probably because the big corporations desperately don't want it to be ruled on universally, they know they will lose.
 
Arbitration by itself is not really a bad thing. It is similar to a standard civil trial....which you do not have full constitutional rights in either, and the burden of proof is significantly lessened. This is why Red Light Camera tickets are classified as civil offenses. It's not for your convenience, it's for the cities. Because if it was a criminal offense, they would have to provide evidence that it was you driving.

Anyways, back to the point. I think the issue people have with arbitration is the perceived possibility of corruption on account of the arbitrator being biased to the corporation that is keeping them on retainer. Were as we hope that the normal government court system just hates everyone equally.
 
Nenu said:
Small print means nothing if it contravenes law.
Scare tactics, they cant stop you suing.
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The unfortunate thing with all of this is, Ignorance Of The Law is no excuse.... and yet it would take you multiple lifetimes to understand the law to the extent that phrase makes any sense legally....

I would personally love to see a study done, as unbiased as possible, that took the intelligence of people into account in understanding the laws in place...Some of these EULA's are so full of contradictions that there is literally no way to know what is happening with your information OR with the rules governing your use of the product... I asked a family member who was a judge to read part of the EULA for Origin and its use... he came back stating... "I think you can use the program, until they say you can't, but only if you pay them money to do so. Which doesnt make any sense if they can keep your money and not let you keep using it." lol
 
I don't mind this Telco company arbitration. If you are simply trying to get back actual damages, vs trying to make huge "profit", it's not a bad deal. FYI: I have taken AT&T to arbitration and won a ridiculous case, unlike most people who talk about "lawsuits" and such, but don't actually have the money or intelligence to understand how this arbitration actually works.

Back when AT&T's website had a screw up and applied a $140 blackberry discount to every phone and rate plan for a few hours (I already had 2 lines of AT&T service, but got 4 more), I took advantage and got 4 phones and 4 new lines of 2-year contract service for $140 off each phone, and $140 off the "monthly" rate on each line; essentially 4 free phone and 2 years of high-end service for 4 lines, all for free (less activation fee) because their website screwed up. AT&T's website and billing system of course started to automatically bill me after a month. I called them and told them that I wasn't paying nothing, as that was part of the contract.

Of course, AT&T tried to argue that it was the "websites" fault, etc, etc. I told them, that yes, it might have been the website's fault, but regardless of who's fault it was, the system had me accept and sign a legal "contract" and took my activation fee money, which sealed the deal. Hence, it was a legal binding contract, regardless of their loss. Well they didn't like that obviously, ended up cancelling my new 4 lines of service for non payment (which is where I got "legally damaged"), and tried to get money from me for the actual price of the phones (I got them for the 2 year contract price minus the $140 Blackberry screw up). Whelp, 2 months later, after arbitration, I had 4 free phones, and 2 years of free service and a refund of all registered mail and arbitration fees after nothing more than a 20 minute hearing over the phone. No I do not feel bad about it, had the tables been turned and I made a contract signing mistake, AT&T would have came after me just as hard and they had been making money off me for a LONG time anyways.

People like to bad mouth this telco arbitration clause because they are too lazy or stupid to read the fine print. They all want exorbitant damage fees for BS perceived slights through threats of lawsuits, instead of their actual damages (The " you billed me and extra $0.50, so I want a million dollars in damages.." lawsuits). Arbitration clauses simply stop the BS lawsuits to make money.

If people would read the arbitration rules more carefully, they'd realize it actually works out MUCH easier and cheaper for them than hiring a lawyer if they are simply trying to make something right, vs making a windfall. All they need is to send arbitration notification, then negotiate a settlement with the telco "legal" team (not some customer service rep) who WILL contact them, and if they can't settle, send a $200-250 arbitration filing fee. Win or "LOSE" in arbitration, as long as you are not making up BS and trying to get a windfall return, you get all your mailing and arbitration fees back plus actual damages. It costs the customer NOTHING but a bit of time and a being reasonable about what they will accept for damages. Even if they can't afford the arbitration fees upfront, the Telco company has to pay it and allow arbitration; it just takes longer if you can't front the arbitration fee. The arbitration "judge" is a third party person and at least in my case was previously the Attorney General of Idaho and a sitting judge at one time.

In my case, I even won despite taking advantage of their mistakes and got thousands of dollars of service and product. All I had to prove was that AT&T's website was their "agent", and that any contract formed with their "agent" legal and binding on both parties once accepted. A few screenshots of the original website screw up and AT&T's own legalese that you have to click on "agree" to and the judge said "yep" it's binding, and you owe him exactly what he signed up for."
 
Last I heard, these forced arbitration clauses don't hold up well in court.
 
xer0 said:
I don't mind this Telco company arbitration. If you are simply trying to get back actual damages, vs trying to make huge "profit", it's not a bad deal. FYI: I have taken AT&T to arbitration and won a ridiculous case, unlike most people who talk about "lawsuits" and such, but don't actually have the money or intelligence to understand how this arbitration actually works.
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A great number of class action lawsuits are not really meant to get some sort of financial restitution for you, but are more to send a message to the company of "No you can't fucking do that you asshole, you say UNLIMITED you better fucking mean it, now the fact you turned your changed your mind means it'll cost you 200 million"
 
xer0 said:
I don't mind this Telco company arbitration. If you are simply trying to get back actual damages, vs trying to make huge "profit", it's not a bad deal. FYI: I have taken AT&T to arbitration and won a ridiculous case, unlike most people who talk about "lawsuits" and such, but don't actually have the money or intelligence to understand how this arbitration actually works.

Back when AT&T's website had a screw up and applied a $140 blackberry discount to every phone and rate plan for a few hours (I already had 2 lines of AT&T service, but got 4 more), I took advantage and got 4 phones and 4 new lines of 2-year contract service for $140 off each phone, and $140 off the "monthly" rate on each line; essentially 4 free phone and 2 years of high-end service for 4 lines, all for free (less activation fee) because their website screwed up. AT&T's website and billing system of course started to automatically bill me after a month. I called them and told them that I wasn't paying nothing, as that was part of the contract.

Of course, AT&T tried to argue that it was the "websites" fault, etc, etc. I told them, that yes, it might have been the website's fault, but regardless of who's fault it was, the system had me accept and sign a legal "contract" and took my activation fee money, which sealed the deal. Hence, it was a legal binding contract, regardless of their loss. Well they didn't like that obviously, ended up cancelling my new 4 lines of service for non payment (which is where I got "legally damaged"), and tried to get money from me for the actual price of the phones (I got them for the 2 year contract price minus the $140 Blackberry screw up). Whelp, 2 months later, after arbitration, I had 4 free phones, and 2 years of free service and a refund of all registered mail and arbitration fees after nothing more than a 20 minute hearing over the phone. No I do not feel bad about it, had the tables been turned and I made a contract signing mistake, AT&T would have came after me just as hard and they had been making money off me for a LONG time anyways.

People like to bad mouth this telco arbitration clause because they are too lazy or stupid to read the fine print. They all want exorbitant damage fees for BS perceived slights through threats of lawsuits, instead of their actual damages (The " you billed me and extra $0.50, so I want a million dollars in damages.." lawsuits). Arbitration clauses simply stop the BS lawsuits to make money.

If people would read the arbitration rules more carefully, they'd realize it actually works out MUCH easier and cheaper for them than hiring a lawyer if they are simply trying to make something right, vs making a windfall. All they need is to send arbitration notification, then negotiate a settlement with the telco "legal" team (not some customer service rep) who WILL contact them, and if they can't settle, send a $200-250 arbitration filing fee. Win or "LOSE" in arbitration, as long as you are not making up BS and trying to get a windfall return, you get all your mailing and arbitration fees back plus actual damages. It costs the customer NOTHING but a bit of time and a being reasonable about what they will accept for damages. Even if they can't afford the arbitration fees upfront, the Telco company has to pay it and allow arbitration; it just takes longer if you can't front the arbitration fee. The arbitration "judge" is a third party person and at least in my case was previously the Attorney General of Idaho and a sitting judge at one time.

In my case, I even won despite taking advantage of their mistakes and got thousands of dollars of service and product. All I had to prove was that AT&T's website was their "agent", and that any contract formed with their "agent" legal and binding on both parties once accepted. A few screenshots of the original website screw up and AT&T's own legalese that you have to click on "agree" to and the judge said "yep" it's binding, and you owe him exactly what he signed up for."
Click to expand...

The thing is, these arbitration clauses take away some of your rights. I am not cool with that. Also, you can still do arbitration instead of a lawsuit no matter what, it's not like you only get the option to arbitrate if you sign a clause that limits you to arbitration. I am glad that your scenario worked out well for you, but that won't always be the case.
 
extide said:
The thing is, these arbitration clauses take away some of your rights. I am not cool with that. Also, you can still do arbitration instead of a lawsuit no matter what, it's not like you only get the option to arbitrate if you sign a clause that limits you to arbitration. I am glad that your scenario worked out well for you, but that won't always be the case.
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This statement gets thrown around a lot. No they aren't taking away your 'rights', no company can do that. They are closing exploitable holes that have been hitting them. As was mentioned I knew a person that went after them in court for a $10 mistake and lost because of course, you want 5 years of free service as compensation. Judge didn't see that as fair payment lol. People need to stop seeing everything as an evil plot to screw them over, maybe companies like to protect themselves as we do? Everyone is out to make money and to protect their investments. You want to know how you 'lose your rights'? you sign things without reading them because you are in a hurry to play with your new phone. (not directed to you personally)
 
I've never really had to sue my phone company. If they make a mistake on our bill, usually they'll fix if I spend enough time arguing with customer service about it over the phone. If you're specific enough, they'll usually deal with it.

That said, AT&T was a lot easier to deal with than Verizon. They're very polite, whereas Verizon's customer service is always so rude. They'll throw it in your face how much they pay for their service and insult you for complaining about the price when you call them to downgrade your service. AT&T never did that, they were pretty professional about it, at most reminding me of what I'd be losing before cancelling a particular service.

If they break the law, though, shouldn't the FCC or the government sue them? Since breaking the law is technically an injury to the government rather than an individual. I don't think there's anything in that contract to stop me from reporting to the FCC if they do something they're not supposed to do in terms of communication infrastructure construction or health/safety regulations. For instance, if I found out they were broadcasting cellular communications on a frequency reserved for a television station and interfering with their signal, they couldn't stop me from reporting that.
 
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No one can take away your right to petition the government for redress of grievances.
 
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