yet another X800XT or 6800Ultra thread

[ThreeDee]

I currently have a Gigabyte X800 pro that I am pretty impressed with over the 9800xt I had .. but ..I dont plan on upgrading for quite awhile and I think I'll just go with top of line gamer card now instead of 2nd/3rd best so I am going to return this card before the intial 30 day refund is up.. My debacle (yay for words learned in Matrix Revolutions ) is this .. reading review after review I see the XT gets higher numbers then the Ultra ..while the Ultra beats out the pro (on most benches from what I have seen anyways) .

...now from reading many post' on said cards , many state that XT as being maxed (or close to maxed) out on potential speed of the card with its proven technology and fairly mature drivers already ...

..while others state that the Ultra being new tech has alot of headroom for improvement and nvidia has proven that they can put out some serious drivers in the past boosting performance quite a bit ..

sm 3.0 is really not an issue ..tho it will possibly bring to the table some nice eye candy down the road ..there isnt anything out that cant be done with sm2.0/2.0b ..

my concern is down the road top end performance .. I am not an fanATIc or nVidiot .. I like both companies and have cards from both .. is it possible that the XT is merely a low geared muscle car that has beaten nvidia off the starting line (by quite a bit it would seem) .. and the nvidia is kinda starting out in 3rd gear , and tho its not taken off very fast ... as both head down the track ati is already pretty much maxed out but the ultra's top end will exceed that of the xt and ultimately be a faster vehicle after a couple laps?

...just wondering

 

[oqvist]

At best 6800 ULTRAS new driver will get on par with the X800XT PE I GUESS . And there is big improvements to be had for ATI too. After all it has twice the pipelines, 50 % more shader units, and support for longer shaders and much other stuff to tweak for.

I can´t tell which one will be 1 % faster in the average game.

 

[sonyman]

I do believe that Nvidia can improve the 6800 Ultra's performance further with new drivers. I also faced the same dilemma and cancelled my X800XT pre-order and pre-ordered a BFG GeForce 6800 Ultra earlier today.

Scott

 

[eMpTy]

I'm thinking the 6800 will atleast catch up to the XT...so then the question becomes: do you mind the dual slot and dual molex setup? For some people that might be a hindrance. But I think it is definitely the more interesting card, it's competing nicely with the XT already and half of its potential hasn't been tapped yet. Personally I'm a 6800 guy, but you can't go wrong with an XT, that card is fast as hell.

My debacle (yay for words learned in Matrix Revolutions) is this ..

Debacle means like a public embarrassment or something turning to chaos or something, I don't think that's what you meant to say.</grammar nazi>

At best 6800 ULTRAS new driver will get on par with the X800XT PE I GUESS . And there is big improvements to be had for ATI too. After all it has twice the pipelines, 50 % more shader units, and support for longer shaders and much other stuff to tweak for.

I seriously doubt you'll see any performance gain from ATI's driver "upgrades", the X800 still handles less shader instructions than a Geforce 5900.

Also I've already seen more than one thread about wierd happenings with the 4.6 Catalyst drivers that bumped up performance about 3-5%. Everything from wierd texture effects to garbling text and icons in windows. That does NOT bode well for ATI's potential driver upgrades producing noticeable speed improvements by optimizing for the new core since they already seem to be scraping the bottom of the barrel and cutting corners.

-eMpTy

 

[oqvist]

Sigh the 4.6 gives big performance boosts already especially with longer shaders. Not that todays games use it much anyway.

I hear mostly good news on the 4.6. Since the R420 is not the R3XX you can´t expect perfect drivers right away can you

Are nVidia cutting corners too with all their bugs??? ATI has at least whql qualified drivers out. I would guess nVidia would have too if it wasn´t all the speed optimizations for the NV3X series messing things up.

 

[OldM3ta]

Are the 6800 Ultras anywhere to be seen yet?! I just read a really good Sapphire X800 XT Platinum Edition review that put a spanking on everything. Read this:

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=x800xtpt&page=1

But noted, 6800s aren't even out. What is left to be seen is what the reviewers say after some high end game benchmarking! But this platinum edition review says this to conclude:

"With a price tag so high, cards like the Radeon 9800XT and X800 Pro look like much better values for the money in comparison to the X800 XT Platinum Edition. Both of these cards can handle modern titles with ease, and won’t make you take out a second mortgage. Still, if you want the best, the X800 XT doesn’t have any competition at this time. It’s the fastest thing on the market, and unless nVidia has something magical up their sleeves, it will remain so for the foreseeable future." - gamepc.com

 

[creedAMD]

It cannot be said at this point which is going to be the better card in the future. Anyone who does say is completely guessing. The best thing to do is hold off until HL2 and DOOM3 is out, then make a purchase. Even then could be a gamble. If you want the best card right now, it would be the 800xt, but it may change in the next few months. Both cards could have "magic drivers" in the future.

 

[oqvist]

Well it looks like some 6800 ULTRA:s will at least ship this month.

 

[creedAMD]

Are the 6800 Ultras anywhere to be seen yet?! I just read a really good Sapphire X800 XT Platinum Edition review that put a spanking on everything. Read this:

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=x800xtpt&page=1

But noted, 6800s aren't even out. What is left to be seen is what the reviewers say after some high end game benchmarking! But this platinum edition review says this to conclude:

"With a price tag so high, cards like the Radeon 9800XT and X800 Pro look like much better values for the money in comparison to the X800 XT Platinum Edition. Both of these cards can handle modern titles with ease, and won’t make you take out a second mortgage. Still, if you want the best, the X800 XT doesn’t have any competition at this time. It’s the fastest thing on the market, and unless nVidia has something magical up their sleeves, it will remain so for the foreseeable future." - gamepc.com

What a review! I was astounded to see a $190 Ati 9800pro besting the $400 Nvidia 5950 in almost every test, especially DX9. WOW!

 

[eMpTy]

Sigh the 4.6 gives big performance boosts already especially with longer shaders. Not that todays games use it much anyway.

I hear mostly good news on the 4.6. Since the R420 is not the R3XX you can´t expect perfect drivers right away can you

Are nVidia cutting corners too with all their bugs??? ATI has at least whql qualified drivers out. I would guess nVidia would have too if it wasn´t all the speed optimizations for the NV3X series messing things up.

3-5% does not qualify as "big" performance boost.

With a driver "upgrade" any bad news is a very bad thing. It's supposed to be an upgrade not a "hey screw up the stuff that already works"-grade. Not to mention that even with all the bitching they still failed to make thier trilinear/anistropic optimizations optional.

The only bugs I've heard of with the 6800 are in Farcry and everyone knows that's being addressed and in fact the 6800 will likely take the lead in Farcry when the WHQL drivers come out, what will you have to say then?

If nvidia took 2 5950 cores, slapped them together and called them a new core, they'd have WHQL certified drivers too...there is a big damned difference between a "tweaked" core and a brand spanking new one.

Call the 6800 what you will, one thing has remained constant no matter who the speed victor is, Nvidia's driver team smokes ATI's any day of the week. ATI has improved by leaps and bounds, but they still lag behind Nvidia.

-eMpTy

 

[eMpTy]

What a review! I was astounded to see a $190 Ati 9800pro besting the $400 Nvidia 5950 in almost every test, especially DX9. WOW!

Wow, if the new generation hadn't just come out the 128meg 9800 would be a hell of a deal at $190...

-eMpTy

 

[OldM3ta]

It cannot be said at this point which is going to be the better card in the future. Anyone who does say is completely guessing. The best thing to do is hold off until HL2 and DOOM3 is out, then make a purchase. Even then could be a gamble. If you want the best card right now, it would be the 800xt, but it may change in the next few months. Both cards could have "magic drivers" in the future.

I couldn't have said it better myself. The doom3 and half life 2 phenomenom that is coming has persuaded so many to try to buy the best technology now for something that is around 4-6 months down the line from now. We all know how computer technology flies by! Why would anyone buy a card now for a game yet to be released is beyond me!

But if you like today's games... and want to see them at their best.... hey, why not if you got the cash.

But if you are like me, I'd hold off until the big two from valve and id come out.. because even then, the games of today will still be great, and as soon as you bore of hl2 or doom3, you can loadup farcry or UT or whatever from early this year on something great if you wait...

 

[OldM3ta]

Well it looks like some 6800 ULTRA:s will at least ship this month.

Where do you get your information from?

 

[eMpTy]

I couldn't have said it better myself. The doom3 and half life 2 phenomenom that is coming has persuaded so many to try to buy the best technology now for something that is around 4-6 months down the line from now. We all know how computer technology flies by! Why would anyone buy a card now for a game yet to be released is beyond me!

But if you like today's games... and want to see them at their best.... hey, why not if you got the cash.

But if you are like me, I'd hold off until the big two from valve and id come out.. because even then, the games of today will still be great, and as soon as you bore of hl2 or doom3, you can loadup farcry or UT or whatever from early this year on something great if you wait...

This is an outstanding point. You've sold me on it, I'm waiting for atleast Doom3 to hit store shelves before I buy a new card. Till I see some benchmarks on the games I will be buying the card for, there's no point in trying to decide which is better.

-eMpTy

 

[obs]

Where do you get your information from?

Some damp brown hole is my guess.

 

[xXaNaXx]

Where do you get your information from?

right Here for one.....

 

[creedAMD]

3-5% does not qualify as "big" performance boost.

With a driver "upgrade" any bad news is a very bad thing. It's supposed to be an upgrade not a "hey screw up the stuff that already works"-grade. Not to mention that even with all the bitching they still failed to make thier trilinear/anistropic optimizations optional.

The only bugs I've heard of with the 6800 are in Farcry and everyone knows that's being addressed and in fact the 6800 will likely take the lead in Farcry when the WHQL drivers come out, what will you have to say then?

If nvidia took 2 5950 cores, slapped them together and called them a new core, they'd have WHQL certified drivers too...there is a big damned difference between a "tweaked" core and a brand spanking new one.

Call the 6800 what you will, one thing has remained constant no matter who the speed victor is, Nvidia's driver team smokes ATI's any day of the week. ATI has improved by leaps and bounds, but they still lag behind Nvidia.

-eMpTy

You are assuming way too much.
1.) How do you know that it is fact that the 6800 will beat in FarCry after WHQL? And keep the same IQ as Ati?(not dropping to FP16)
2.) How can you claim that Nvidia's driver team smokes Ati's when the FarCry bug is killing them right now? This is a TWIMTBP title and people are buying these fast cards for FarCry. There are not really anyother titles that need the gpu power but FarCry. It doesn't sound like any "smoking" going on to me, sounds like Ati has the upper hand and we're waiting for Nvidia to catch up.

It's a close race and both cards are great. They have their goods and bads. Too many varibles are yet to be seen to start flaming one card or the other. To flame either right now would be a blind jump of faith.

 

[CyberCRAP]

I seriously doubt ATI will be able to optimize their drivers much more. Their x800 is very similar to the 9800 which has been out for quite a while. Now they did add some new stuff but it was more of an overhaul of an old engine than a complete redesign of a new one. The 6800 is a completely new architecture so I can see it getting more speed as drivers mature. I don't see it getting the 50% or whatever some people claim, but who knows.

Personally I just want both cards to be around the same speed so prices drop faster. I jumped on the $299 6800gt on BB this morning so hopefully I get that, but knowing BB I'm not betting on it. With good competition I bet the x800 pro and 6800gt will be sub $300 in a couple months and the Ultra & XT PE being sub $400, but only time will tell.

 

[xXaNaXx]

people, it basically comes down to this...

if you want a card right this moment, buy what's available now.
if you want a better price, wait a few months for the prices to go down, or get the x800 Pro or NV 6800 (non-GT or Ultra) instead of the absolute highest end card.
those who are die-hard nVidiots are going to buy NV, period
those who are die-hard fanATIcs are going to buy ATI, period

both of the top-of-the-line cards are going to be fucking awesome, so buy what fits what you want. does it REALLY matter that one may get 5 FPS more than the other card one day, then the other gets 5 more with the release of the next set of drivers? no....unless you're already running at only 5FPS, you won't notice a 5FPS difference.....

 

[creedAMD]

Wow, if the new generation hadn't just come out the 128meg 9800 would be a hell of a deal at $190...

-eMpTy

It's still a hell of a deal, would you rather buy a next gen card that you have no idea on how it's going to perform in the future games for $300 more? Or wait until next gen games come out and hopefully the current next gen cards will be at lower price point.

 

[retardedchicken]

im sorry but i think that gamePC review was half assed and didnt assess much

[H]'s reviews are way more thorought and thought out than that dribble

 

[retardedchicken]

im sorry but i think that gamePC review was half assed and didnt assess much

[H]'s reviews are way more thorought and thought out than that dribble

and, we all know that Nvidias goal is to win the doom3 benchmark, they are optimizing their card for it...

 

[creedAMD]

im sorry but i think that gamePC review was half assed and didnt assess much

[H]'s reviews are way more thorought and thought out than that dribble

and, we all know that Nvidias goal is to win the doom3 benchmark, they are optimizing their card for it...

Hold on, why did you not like the gamePC review? What would you have done differently?

 

[eMpTy]

You are assuming way too much.
1.) How do you know that it is fact that the 6800 will beat in FarCry after WHQL? And keep the same IQ as Ati?(not dropping to FP16)
2.) How can you claim that Nvidia's driver team smokes Ati's when the FarCry bug is killing them right now? This is a TWIMTBP title and people are buying these fast cards for FarCry. There are not really anyother titles that need the gpu power but FarCry. It doesn't sound like any "smoking" going on to me, sounds like Ati has the upper hand and we're waiting for Nvidia to catch up.

It's a close race and both cards are great. They have their goods and bads. Too many varibles are yet to be seen to start flaming one card or the other. To flame either right now would be a blind jump of faith.

1. I said likely, not for certain. I've "heard" that Farcry performance will be seriously increased in the next driver release from many different places.
2. ATI is dealing with a mature driver. They've had 2 years to get it right and yet there are still bugs. It's not horrible, but it should be better given the time they have had to work on it. The only 6800 driver available when the cards were reviewed was a BETA.

I'm speaking very generally about driver quality here. ATI has a driver that has had 2 years to mature and it still has bugs. Still getting errors in Never Winter Nights...I've seen corrupted textures in Farcry...I've seen shimmering effects due to anistropic filtering issues in Farcry...I remember when ATI cards used to crash in halo at random...I've never seen an Nvidia driver crash a computer...

This whole issue with Farcry is a product of a new core and beta drivers. Everyone knows about it, it's already been fixed, it's just waiting for WHQL certification. Name another issue Nvidia is having with their drivers?

I am absolutely not trying to flame ATI here. All I'm saying is that their driver team can't compete with the miracle workers at Nvidia. ATI has never EVER released a driver that increased performance 15% across the board like Nvidia did with the Geforce 3. I'm not saying they suck, I'm just saying they're in second place when it comes to drivers, and I think that's a very reasonable judgement.

-eMpTy

 

[eMpTy]

im sorry but i think that gamePC review was half assed and didnt assess much

[H]'s reviews are way more thorought and thought out than that dribble

and, we all know that Nvidias goal is to win the doom3 benchmark, they are optimizing their card for it...

Well I remember they said the NV35 was "built for Doom3"...but now I don't think it really matters much, Doom3 is an OpenGL game...and ATI just plain sucks at OpenGL...

-eMpTy

 

[ThreeDee]

Debacle means like a public embarrassment or something turning to chaos or something, I don't think that's what you meant to say.</grammar nazi>

Thank you Grammar Nazi ..lol ..I guess I just "felt" the word wrong ..(if that makes sense)