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Yet another help with 4870X2 thread...

Johnny78

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,419
I was really hoping I wouldn't have to be posting a thread here but alas here I am. So yesterday I finally had the time to install my new diamond 4870X2 OC. I went back and forth about whether to get a GTX 280 XXX edition card or this one, but after opening a long thread here about it(http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1348512) and getting everyone's input, I decided to go with the 4870X2. My main concern in getting a 4870X2 was dealing with a lot of driver issues. I wanted the best performance with the least amount of hassle.

So that being said, I tried everything by the book to avoid any problems. FYI, I'm using XP 32, and ATI 8.9 drivers. For starters I uninstalled my old Nvidia drivers via control panel. Then I rebooted into safe mode. Then I ran driversweeper. Then I installed new card. Then I installed 8.9 drivers and CCC. (I actually at this point had to install .NET frame v 2.0 since CCC didn't seem to be able to install without it). Next I installed Rivatuner 2.11 and set my fan to a fixed 50% which dropped the idle temps from the high 70's to the high 40's.

For starters I tried running 3dmark06 (I know, I know) for shits and giggles however I kept getting frozen on the flash screen. After downloading the Feb '08 hotfix from futuremark, everything seemed to work. I ran the bench mark twice with no problems and both times scored just a hair under 21K (20,937 to be exact).

Next I loaded up one of my favorite games, Bioshock, to test performance. Playing at 2560X1600 there seemed to a huge boost over my superclocked Ultra. At this res, I was averaging at least 80 frames a second whereas my Ultra did high 30 to low 40's. (On a side note, I tried to force edge detect 24x from CCC since Bioshock doesn't support AA in game however I couldn't tell if it made any difference to be honest. With my nvidia card I could notice the difference easily, here I could not. Made me think I wasn't doing it correctly or else Bioshock doesn't support AA with ATI cards. I don't know.)

Next I loaded up Devil May Cry 4 and ran the in game benchmark demo at 2560X1600 with every detail maxed out both AA and AF in game settings. Here I got a massive boost in FPS over my old Ultra. Whereas before I chugged along between 30 to 50 FPS, I was now averaging between 150 and 200 FPS. Very happy.

Next I loaded up an oldie but goodie, Oblivion. I know it sounds old, but Oblivion at 2560X1600 on Ultra details, with HDR in game enabled and driver level AA enabled in an outdoor scene, is still extremely taxing on any GPU. Again, I notice a definite boost in FPS across the boards.

Now is when the FUN began. At this point I was basically going through my game catalogue and loading up games and settings that previously had given my Ultra some trouble. When I loaded up Condemed Criminal Origins, (again at 2560 and all in game settings maxed), the screen started artifacting like crazy. Green and red glitches everywhere. I tried loading the game twice and both times the same problem. Then I quit and tried loading Call of Duty 4. Same damn problem. Screen corruption everywhere. Even more stange, at one point, the bottom quarter of the screen started displaying a Condemned Criminal intro screen AND started playing the Condemned music intro while the top 3/4 of the screen showed COD4. WTF??? At this point when I exited the game my desktop was now artifacting and I had to reboot.

Again I tried to play COD4 and again there was only screen corruption. At this point I'm thinking the card is faulty and will need to be RMA'd. Just out of curiosity I decided to try one of the games that had previously worked fine. So I load up Bioshock and viola, the game runs perfectly. So anyway, I go to bed a little pissed and mostly confused.

This morning I get up and start up the computer. The only thing I changed is under CCC even though under 3d AA settings it was on "use application settings" I changed the pull down setting from "edge detect" to "box". Didn't think that would make any difference since it still was under application settings. Then to my surprise I start up Condemed Criminal Origins and everything is running just fine, no artifacts. I try COD4 and that too runs with no problems.

Anyway, I really don't know what it make of it at this point. I've already had more headache in one night than I did using my old Ultra for the last year. I'm going to do some more testing when I get home from work but what do you guys think? Think the card might be defective or it is probably a driver issue? I have no problem exchanging this card for a GTX 280 if need be, however when it is working correctly, this card does seem very beastly. Very sorry for the long winded post but I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. (And I probably need to vent a little too. Thanks.)
 
Yes, I did enable Catalyst AI. With the 4870X2 installed I lose 1GB of memory. I have 4 gigs installed, with the 4870X2, system reports 3.0 gigs of ram. Exactly what I expected based on what other people had told me.
 
I actually had similar problems using GTX280 card until I got the monitor issue resolved. So I am thinking that its a driver issue. check and see if there is a difference in DX9 and DX10. Also I assume you ran a driver cleaner before you installed and such. Getting the old Nvidia drivers out is something of bitch.

unfortunately none of the current gen cards are as stable as the last, at least not yet.

and for bioshock I think you need to first force regular AA from the CCC then use the edge detect though you need to get that from some one that know for sure. probably my fav game
 
Yes, I did enable Catalyst AI. With the 4870X2 installed I lose 1GB of memory. I have 4 gigs installed, with the 4870X2, system reports 3.0 gigs of ram. Exactly what I expected based on what other people had told me.

I might be mistaken but I think your computer should report 1 GB of ram with a 32 bit OS and 2gb VRAM...
 
I might be mistaken but I think your computer should report 1 GB of ram with a 32 bit OS and 2gb VRAM...

1gb of vram. the memory in the 4870X2 is mirrored so the OS only has to address 1gb of it.
 
Returned my diamond for a GTX280... smooth sailing now. It doesnt have the power the 4870x2 had but my games play just as smooth and for some reason COD4 feels smoother with the GTX280 vs the 4870x2. I didnt expect this seeing the peak frames each card was getting but apparently others noticed the same. The 4870x2 will be a monster when the drivers right. The hanging gpu utilization on bootup I got also bugged me.
 
Returned my diamond for a GTX280... smooth sailing now. It doesnt have the power the 4870x2 had but my games play just as smooth and for some reason COD4 feels smoother with the GTX280 vs the 4870x2. I didnt expect this seeing the peak frames each card was getting but apparently others noticed the same. The 4870x2 will be a monster when the drivers right. The hanging gpu utilization on bootup I got also bugged me.

Dual card solutions suck because of these issues. I had a 7950GX2 and 9800GX2 had issues with every one. Took away the fun of gaming and I was constantly troublshooting. Stick with the single card solutions.
 
Returned my diamond for a GTX280... smooth sailing now. It doesnt have the power the 4870x2 had but my games play just as smooth and for some reason COD4 feels smoother with the GTX280 vs the 4870x2. I didnt expect this seeing the peak frames each card was getting but apparently others noticed the same. The 4870x2 will be a monster when the drivers right. The hanging gpu utilization on bootup I got also bugged me.

This was noted time and time again in the [H]ard reviews. The 4870x2 is better at benchmarks, the 280 is better at games. Look at the time vs FPS graphs and it's pretty obvious.
 
I guess all those people in the, Im happy with my 4870 X2 thread must be delusional then. :) There are even several people in that thread that went from a GTX 280 to a 4870X2 and couldnt be happier. Now how can that be if the GTX280 was that much better at playing games ?
 
its amazing how fast we can get away from helping the OP here.
 
My suggestion: Upgrade your OS to Vista 64-bit, and quit trying to make 4GB of system RAM, and 1GB of Video RAM work.

Geeesh, it's 2008, why are people hanging onto XP like a long lost friend... LOL
 
My suggestion: Upgrade your OS to Vista 64-bit, and quit trying to make 4GB of system RAM, and 1GB of Video RAM work.

Geeesh, it's 2008, why are people hanging onto XP like a long lost friend... LOL

because it works and vista doesn't really do anything that it doesn't. I didn't upgrade until I had to why should he?
 
My suggestion: Upgrade your OS to Vista 64-bit, and quit trying to make 4GB of system RAM, and 1GB of Video RAM work.

Geeesh, it's 2008, why are people hanging onto XP like a long lost friend... LOL



Umm, gee there are plenty of "I'm having problems with my 4870X2 and vista 64-bit" threads so I don't know if that's necessarily the answer. And to answer your question, I'll upgrade to vista when I see a game that genuinely looks a lot better under Dx10 than DX9. (please don't mention Crysis because there are plenty of hacks to get very high details with DX9). It's certainly not a question of money, (my sig rig should testify that I have no problem spending moeny), it's just that XP works great and nothing under DX10 has made me go, "Oh, I gotta have that." When it does, I will gladly upgrade.

Anyway, let's please not degrade this into a vista versus xp thread. Back to my original issue, I just got home and I'm going to load up some more games and see how they run. Well see where I'm at.
 
I guess all those people in the, Im happy with my 4870 X2 thread must be delusional then. :) There are even several people in that thread that went from a GTX 280 to a 4870X2 and couldnt be happier. Now how can that be if the GTX280 was that much better at playing games ?

Perhaps those people enjoy "playing" 3dmark and FRAPS rather than actually seeing how smooth gameplay is? ;)
 
Anyway, let's please not degrade this into a vista versus xp thread.

I wasn't, everyone else was. I was merely suggesting that you get a 64bit system, to resolve issues with accessing RAM+Video RAM at over 4GB. I thought that was your issue/question.

Now it sounds like it's more of an ATI crappy drivers problem.

Anyways, this is a tech-forum, and it's amazing how many people are running XP still, and someone is always having problems with running new hardware technology with a 7yr old operating system. :eek:
 
because it works and vista doesn't really do anything that it doesn't.

QFMFT. Vista = a big load of FAIL.

Alot of people never even noticed the micro stutter of the 9800GX2. I think some people are just more sensitive to this kind of stuff. I know I am. I couldnt stand the 9800GX2 becuase even though it benchmarked faster than anything else I ever used (at the time), the real world gameplay experience sucked. Too many pauses, stutters, never felt smooth. Not everyone will notice it though, but for those that do its a show stopper.
 
Alrighty I had about a hour last night to play around with the system. I played Stranglehold for about 15 minutes. No problems, fantastic fps. Then I loaded up the dreaded Crysis. Performance was actually a lot better than I thought it would be considering all the horror stories with the 4870X2 and Crysis. I loaded up the snow level(pretty demanding as I recall this was the level that brought my Ultra to its knees.) Obviously I couldn't play this at native resolution, so I set it to 1920X1200 with AAX4 and everything on high. At these settings I was getting between 25 and 36 frames per second. Better than I thought it would be and for Crysis those frames are decently playable. After that I loaded up 15 minutes each of Condemned and COD4 at max settings to make sure I wasn't getting that screen corruption like previously. Again both games ran very well and without that horrendous screen corruption I had noticed the other night.

A few quick comments about microstuttering since somebody brought that up with regards to "smooth" gameplay. This is my first dual gpu set-up and right off the bat I do notice that most games have rather wild swings in fps. From what I read this phenomenon is pretty inherent in most dual GPU set ups (the GX2 being the most notorious culprit). Does it affect my gameplay or my appreciation of the so called "smoothness." Well, for me the answer is "no". For most games I'm testing (and remember these are at 2560X1600 with all eye candy enabled) I'll be chugging along at 150 fps and then in a very heavy action scene I may drop down to 55 fps and then swing back up. For me 55 or so frames per second is still fast enough for me NOT to notice any perceivable "choppiness" or affect on gameplay. In other words, my minimum frames are still fast enough to not affect gameplay. That being said, as more and more demanding games are released I could easily forsee my minimums dropping down into the 20's and 30's or low enough so that my gameplay is indeed adversely affected. In other words I can see both sides argument on this issue. As it stands right now, this is still easily the fastest card I've ever owned.

One quick question since I've installed this card. It's been a couple years since I've had an ATI card but I believe I did a pretty textbook installation of this card. Why is it on startup I get that stupid "found new hardware" message, "please insert CD" bs. The display driver and CCC seem to be working fine. It's not a huge deal. More annoying than anything. But rather than always having to cancel this when I start my computer is there a way to get rid of it?

And dear GOD is there an aftermarket air cooler for this thing? Anything above 65% fan speed is LOUD. I don't know what caused that bad experience a couple nights ago, but one of my suspicions is that maybe the card started to overheat. Since that screen corruption I've upped the fan from 50% to 65%. Don't know if that solved the problem or not.

Either way, I'm still not convinced that I entirely trust this card. Valset mentioned that this generations drivers (for both nvidia and ati) are not nearly as stable as last generations. I think there's a lot of truth there. Does that mean I should expect the occasional random screen bug that goes away after a reboot? Maybe so. Either way, I'm still leary about this card and will feel better after a longer gaming session. I think that's a good excuse to pick of a copy of Dead Space today and get my geek on for a few hours after work today. Hopefully that works out. Again thanks to everyone for your continued input and help.
 
Every card will start to show its limits eventually Johnny78, even the 4870X2. I here this often that some people are worried about what will happen when more demanding games come along. The X2 is flying with most of todays games, crunching FPS like no other card before it, at highest settings. When something more demanding comes along, just tweak your settings like you would with anyother card. Its not like the X2 will be the only card affected by those more demanding games. ALL of them will.

Also by the time the X2 starts to show strain, there will be other cards on the market that will most probobly blow it away.

As for the found new hardware part, just cancell it and install drivers. As far as I know , theres no work around for that.
 
if your getting a found new hardware balloon you might not have everything installed. Or it might be windows. either way put the CD in and let the installation go. if its an older driver just reinstall the newer one. this might be what caused your bad experience. If all else fails just uninstall the drivers, reboot and let windows find and install everything again. Also check and make sure (I have only seen this once and on a 3870X2, IF I remember correctly, not sure here) the device manger is showing both GPUs.

I am still waiting for an after market cooler my GTX280, not even going to try and OC it without one. late to market.

Now if your willing to get two AM coolers for your card you can do that now, that is what I am going to do if I upgrade. but I have to tell you, water is no longer looking like such a toy. I love how everyone thinks there is going to be GTX200X2 when the 4870X2 is almost a hair drier. it may become practical here.

I do think we were spoiled by the last generation of cards. If you think about it Nvidia had well over 2 years to work out all the bugs and due to lack of competition they did not have hurry much or worry about wringing the last couple of FPS out of them. Not the case now and I suspect that stability is not as much a priority as speed, especially in benchmarks.

JM2C
 
I would bet your new hardware found is your ATI HDMI Audio. You can do a search online and find the latest ATI HDMI Audio driver.
 
I would bet your new hardware found is your ATI HDMI Audio. You can do a search online and find the latest ATI HDMI Audio driver.

When I installed the card, I didn't use the supplied CD. I just used downloaded copies of display driver 8.9 and CCC 8.9. They both appear to be working just fine. Thanks for the tip though. I'll download that driver tonight and see if that clears it up.
 
I would bet your new hardware found is your ATI HDMI Audio. You can do a search online and find the latest ATI HDMI Audio driver.

See, that's why I love this forum. You were indeed absolutely correct. Once I downloaded that driver the "found new message" pop up went away. I don't know really know what that driver was for but I don't know if I really care since it resolved my issue. Thank you Copyright. :D

I just installed 8.10 tonight. I'm going to do some more testing and see if my performance is stable. I'll report back.
 
See, that's why I love this forum. You were indeed absolutely correct. Once I downloaded that driver the "found new message" pop up went away. I don't know really know what that driver was for but I don't know if I really care since it resolved my issue. Thank you Copyright. :D

I just installed 8.10 tonight. I'm going to do some more testing and see if my performance is stable. I'll report back.

No problem... I remember going through the same thing :) The driver is so you can get sound through your DVI/HDMI connector to another source like a TV. Its a neat feature.
 
Try playing with Rivatuner 2.11 and the low level fan control. What I like best is you can get the card to run quiet at idle and ramp up quicker to keep the peak temps down. This put my max temps in the high 70s when I had mine. Very cool feature.
 
Installed 8.10 last night. So far no BSODs or weird screen quality. Everything seems pretty stable. I do have a quick question however. I played Bioshock for an hour and then HL Episode 2 for an hour and in both instances I had v-sync enabled from the in game options and in both cases v-sync didn't seem to be working. I know because I was cruising at 130 frames or so when I should have been locked in at 60. Most importantly there was some screen tearing that obviously shouldn't be there if v-sync is on. Anyone experience this with their ATI card? Is there something on the CCC I need to check to get v-sync to work? Thanks for your help guys. :)
 
Well, I figured out for myself last night why my v-sync didn't seem to be working. Part of the problem was my stupidity. It's been a while since I've had a ATI card and I'm just re-familiarizing myself with the Control Panel. Anyway, I didn't realize that CCC refers to v-sync as "wait for vertical refresh" and that this is ONLY available under the "all settings" tab and not the general 3D settings tab. So anyway, I didn't realize that when CCC is first installed "wait for vertical refresh" is set to "Always off" by default. So basically it didn't matter what I put in my in game settings, v-sync was always going to be disabled. Anyway, now I set it to "Off unless appplication" states otherwise. So now everything is all good. Pretty retarded of myself but I guess everyone has to learn these things at one point or another. :D


Anyway, it's been a few days and my 4870X2 is working like a champ. Again I've logged in several hours just dealing with driver issues and crap but after all that tweaking, the card appears stable and the performance is fantastic. I guess my only complaint at this point is that I still can't figure out how to force AA in Bioshock but other than that I'm happy. (Somebody mentioned that you need to rename the .exe file to "Oblivion" but then some other people claim that messes up the shadows, so I don't know if that's the answer)
 
Well, I figured out for myself last night why my v-sync didn't seem to be working. Part of the problem was my stupidity. It's been a while since I've had a ATI card and I'm just re-familiarizing myself with the Control Panel. Anyway, I didn't realize that CCC refers to v-sync as "wait for vertical refresh" and that this is ONLY available under the "all settings" tab and not the general 3D settings tab. So anyway, I didn't realize that when CCC is first installed "wait for vertical refresh" is set to "Always off" by default. So basically it didn't matter what I put in my in game settings, v-sync was always going to be disabled. Anyway, now I set it to "Off unless appplication" states otherwise. So now everything is all good. Pretty retarded of myself but I guess everyone has to learn these things at one point or another. :D


Anyway, it's been a few days and my 4870X2 is working like a champ. Again I've logged in several hours just dealing with driver issues and crap but after all that tweaking, the card appears stable and the performance is fantastic. I guess my only complaint at this point is that I still can't figure out how to force AA in Bioshock but other than that I'm happy. (Somebody mentioned that you need to rename the .exe file to "Oblivion" but then some other people claim that messes up the shadows, so I don't know if that's the answer)

http://www.tweakguides.com/Bioshock_5.html

I don't think DX10 add anything that outweighs the AA. I don't think that you have to rename it to work anymore but you def have to run in DX9
 
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