Yes! Built the new system! (Question about...)

Cannibal Corpse

Cannibal Corpse

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Messages
1,277
Hello all,

OK, just built a new box with these specifications:

ATi RADEON HD 3450 PCI-E
Intel Dual Core E5200 (2.5GHz)
Intel DG45ID MoBo
2GB 800 DDR2
400W PSU

As you can see, I was on a tight budget, buy hey, it is FAR betten that the old POS that I had!

OK, Questions for you:

I am going to use this system STRICKLY for home-theater purpose (no gaming, or Encoding), just watching DVD, BluRay and HD-DVD rips (.MKV, etc.), as a result I need to know:

1) What OS to choose? Vista32 or Vista64 or XP Pro?

2) Under what OS, decoding and watching H. 264 files faster less choppier?

3) I have purchased and downloaded the latest version of CoreAVC (Professional Edition v1.8.5.0) - Do I just need to install this one?

4) What about CCCP packs?

5) What Player do you recommend? (Zoom, WMP Classic, etc.)

6) With my new RADEO HD 3450, would it just decode these HD streams out of the box, or do I need to tweak some settings in the codecs (CoreAVC?) or ATi drivers?


I really appreciate your help!
 
1.) Vista 32 (64bit is bad for a HTPC's, not to mention a waste)

2.) There should be no difference if you use the right software.

3.) You could, and that would use the CPU, but MPC-HC has a built in DXVA hardware decoder that may or may not take advantage of you're 3450. I'm not up to date on what ATI GPU's are supported with DXVA.

4.) Dont EVER touch a codec pack, ever, no matter what anyone tells you. They are for people who don't know what specific codecs they need and they are more trouble then they are worth.

5.) Media Player Classic - HomeCinema hands down. Get one of the latest builds from here, pick one with alot of downloads: www.xvidvideo.ru

6.) Like I said above, I'm not sure if the 3450 does hardware decoding (DXVA). CoreAVC (as of the version you bought) is ONLY a CPU based software decoder. To do hardware decoding, just make sure you have the newest drivers, then setup MPC-HC to use its default DXVA decoder. If you need help doing that, let me (us) know.

Good luck.


FWIW, if you're CPU can handle it, I would suggest using ffdshow instead of CoreAVC. It can handle a lot more video file types and offers better picture quality. You could try it out first as its free, and if you find you're CPU choking on some material then go with CoreAVC.

Also, CoreAVC 1.9 Beta supports hardware decoding.
 
Thanks! I am going to install Vista32 then. So it is even better than XP Pro? (faster, smoother H. 264 decoding that is)
 
Cannibal Corpse said:
Thanks! I am going to install Vista32 then. So it is even better than XP Pro? (faster, smoother H. 264 decoding that is)
Click to expand...

Like I said above, there will be no difference.

Video isn't like games. As long as the video is playing at its intended framerate, its all good. There is no "faster, smoother.. etc". Its either playing correctly or its not.
 
This is awesome. Just found an app that will check if you're GPU is DXVA compaitble.

DXVA Checker

ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT should be in the list on the first screen, if it is then you're card is DXVA compatible.
 
criccio said:
Haha, np. BTW, if you're card IS DXVA compatible, you have no need for CoreAVC. Everything will be offloaded to the GPU.
Click to expand...

Any modern GPU since the GF4 MX is DXVA compatible; this isn't a big deal. :rolleyes: H264 offloading is but that isn't entirely up to DXVA and is very depended on the codec used.

What is a big deal is how well it supports H264 offloading and the 3450 is okay/decent enough for 720p material.

What matters most is whether or not the codec you are using (and yes you do need one) supports DXVA and if you're x264 material is properly encoded that it supports DXVA too.
 
Anyways:

Cannibal Corpse said:
1) What OS to choose? Vista32 or Vista64 or XP Pro?
Click to expand...
As stated before, Vista 32. Don't bother with Vista 64.
2) Under what OS, decoding and watching H. 264 files faster less choppier?
Click to expand...
Thats really up to your video card and the 3450 isn't exactly one of the better ones. It'll work perfectly okay for 720p material but might choke a bit on 1080p material. I would have gone with a 4350 instead since it has an updated and improved UVD engine.
3) I have purchased and downloaded the latest version of CoreAVC (Professional Edition v1.8.5.0) - Do I just need to install this one?
Click to expand...
Waste of money, you need PowerDVD.
4) What about CCCP packs?
Click to expand...
Yes, perfectly fine. Thats what I use and highly suggest. Just don't stray from it and install garbage like Klite.
5) What Player do you recommend? (Zoom, WMP Classic, etc.)
Click to expand...
Well, assuming that this is an HTPC I would suggest Media Portal and MPC.
6) With my new RADEO HD 3450, would it just decode these HD streams out of the box, or do I need to tweak some settings in the codecs (CoreAVC?) or ATi drivers?
Click to expand...
You need to turn on hardware acceleration in your codec's options. You need a codec.
 
Never mind I needed to install .NET framework 2.0 and Visual C++ 2005 SP1 Runtime to be installed first in order to get the DVXA applet to work.
 
Wow, it works now! (or so I think!?)

I installed XP Pro fresh, then RADEON 3450 drivers, then MPC and voila it works! It can play all the 1080p, 720p .mkv rips that I could not play before (they were very choppy before)

The DXVA applet also could detect/list my card.

I didn't have to install ANY codecs! it is normal?

The best part is that bought that video card for only $39! (20% off of normal price at a local Micro Center) it is a Sapphire brand RADEON.
Thanks!
 
oh cool! OK the CPU Utilization is less than 4% at max! (using task manager of course).

Is there a better one to check the CPU utilization? Or better yet a utility that check the utilization of my CPU and GPU and other components while I am watching a movie?

Thanks!
 
Uh, task manager is all you need. Utilisation of your GPU hardly matters since it has dedicated silicon for decoding and doesn't use all of the GPU anyways.
 
I know he will fight me on this, but don't under any circumstances install a "codec pack" like CrimandEvil suggested. Completely useless. MPC-HC will play most anything you throw at it.

If you really need something universal, install ffdshow and set it to normal priority.

CrimandEvil said:
What matters most is whether or not the codec you are using (and yes you do need one) supports DXVA and if you're x264 material is properly encoded that it supports DXVA too.
Click to expand...

MPC-HC has a built in DXVA decoder, so no, you don't need a standalone one if thats what you meant. And the video he will be playing back will most likely be compatible. Don't ask me how I know.
 
There's always an exception to the rule. Most codec packs are highly bloated and install way more filters than necessary, most often registering more than one filter for one type of codec. What makes it worse is that the installer merely registers each of the included filters with no filter merit management, which is the primary cause of problems with these codec packs.

However, CCCP is different. If you browse their website, you'll see that the developers are a group of people who actually know what they're doing. First off, CCCP installs a minimal amount of filters (6 total). Also, it comes with a central Settings application that can manage all the bundled filters all in one place, making it easier to make configuration changes. This Settings app also makes filter merit management for the bundled apps easier, as opposed to using something like Radlight.

Yes, you can download each filter you need and install each one separately, and then configure each one separately, and I actually suggest you do that if you know what you're doing. But for people that don't, I normally recommend CCCP for convenience.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go look for my flame suit.
 
Cannibal Corpse said:
Is there a better one to check the CPU utilization? Or better yet a utility that check the utilization of my CPU and GPU and other components while I am watching a movie?
Click to expand...

If you're using MPC-HC and you have the latest DirectX installed, you can View then Display Stats to confirm whether DXVA is being used or not.

As far as utilization though, Reliability and Performance Monitor on Vista, but that won't show GPU utilization.
 
Failure! :( Under XP Pro, all of a sudden it completely stopped working. When I drag any .mkv files into Media Centter Player Classic, it is completely unplayable. I know it is totally irrelevant, but I am installing Vista32 to see if it is going to make a difference. (I wanted Vista32 to begin with).
 
The files that used to play fine, were they also in an MKV container? You need an MKV splitter to play those files.
 
O yea.. you need Haalis installed. Forgot to mention that... ;)

Also Cannibal, I know alot of people in here are mentioning other stuff you need to install... but the truth of the matter is that you don't. MPC-HC + Haali's is all you need for 720p and 1080p h.264 video in MKV's.

That being said, if you want to play retail Blu-Rays and have all the menu's and whatnot, you will need something like PowerDVD 8 or Arcsoft TMT. Those I have no experience with as I couldn't care less about menu's. :D


Here is how the settings should look for MPC-HC:

Output screen:
Untitled-33.jpg


Internal Filters: (all checked EXCEPT for Matroska on the left)
Untitled2-5.jpg


External Filters: (make sure to set it to "Preferred"
Untitled3-1.jpg


While playing a video, right click in the MPC-HC windows, go to Filters>MPC Video Decoder. It should look like this except for a different video card. DXVA Mode should be the same.
Untitled4-1.jpg
 
OK, success! Under Vista32 it works (so far).

Question: How to I enable the subtitle in Media Player Classic HomeCinema? (ZoomPlayer used to display them by default)

Thanks!
 
To criccio,
Thanks for the screen-shots, they really helped. Now, where would I find Haalis? And how do I get MPC-HC to display the hard coded subtitles?

Under Vista32 (installed fresh this morning) I just installed MPC-HC. No other codec packs or anything else is installed.

Thanks!
 
Cannibal Corpse said:
5) What Player do you recommend? (Zoom, WMP Classic, etc.)

6) With my new RADEO HD 3450, would it just decode these HD streams out of the box, or do I need to tweak some settings in the codecs (CoreAVC?) or ATi drivers?
Click to expand...

These have been answered so I won't go over all of them.

5) windows media center. You don't need another player. Just sit back on the couch and use the remote.
XBMC is cool. It's just a pain to setup. I'm working on that now and i'm almost there. Just need to get the remote working and get the proper file names on some of my files.

6) what was the point of buying a video card when the motherboard you bought has onboard video capable of HD offloading? That particular ATI card isn't even that great. If you must buy a card the ATI 4650 is the way to go. Best scores in HQV.
That said I have that board and it has good picture quality.
 
Archer75 said:
6) what was the point of buying a video card when the motherboard you bought has onboard video capable of HD offloading? That particular ATI card isn't even that great. If you must buy a card the ATI 4650 is the way to go. Best scores in HQV.
That said I have that board and it has good picture quality.
Click to expand...

O wow, I didnt even notice that. Cannibal, if you have issues with 1080p stuff, consider ditching the ATI card and just using the onboard video which is probably better. :p

Cannibal Corpse said:
To criccio,
Thanks for the screen-shots, they really helped. Now, where would I find Haalis? And how do I get MPC-HC to display the hard coded subtitles?

Under Vista32 (installed fresh this morning) I just installed MPC-HC. No other codec packs or anything else is installed.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Haali's: http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/MatroskaSplitter.exe

Hardcoded subs will show up no matter what because they are... hardcoded. Nothing you can do will be able to make them disappear. If they aren't showing up then they aren't hardcoded.

As far as non-hardcoded subs (those found muxed in the MKV container), I haven't been able to get them to work while using DXVA because the EVR renderer doesn't seem to support them.

Hopefully someone else can help you there.
 
what was the point of buying a video card when the motherboard you bought has onboard video capable of HD offloading?
Click to expand...

Well, I might take it out, and install the intel onboard drivers to see if it can handle the .mkv files that I want to watch. But the HD 3450 was chaep $39 and right now it is doing a GREAT job. (can't play games though)
 
I know when I had ZoomPlayer installed on my old PC, it could display the subtitles for the exact same .mkv movie files.
 
To display softsubs, either use MPC-HC's internal subtitle renderer or use VSFilter.

Using MPC-HC alone works if that's the only player you plan on ever using. But if you want to use a media center frontend, you'll still need the DirectShow filters.
 
tgxiii said:
Using MPC-HC alone works if that's the only player you plan on ever using. But if you want to use a media center frontend, you'll still need the DirectShow filters.
Click to expand...

True. We'll have to see if he's interested in doing that. That is, if you want to use VMC...

I personally like XBMC for its non-reliance on separate filters.
 
Cannibal Corpse said:
Well, I might take it out, and install the intel onboard drivers to see if it can handle the .mkv files that I want to watch. But the HD 3450 was chaep $39 and right now it is doing a GREAT job. (can't play games though)
Click to expand...

Actually, the onboard Intel is going to be worse. I wouldn't bother with it honestly.
 
CrimandEvil said:
XBMC isn't worth my time until they either finally support hardware acceleration for video or support external filters.
Click to expand...

That's you're opinion... My machine has no need for hardware decoding. Not supporting external filters is a good thing, one less thing to worry about. Install, point to you're video directory, sit back and watch stuff. Can't get any better then that. Just because we know what all the filters do and how to configure them doesn't mean we want to. Sometimes its nice to have software that just works without constant tweaking.
 
criccio said:
That's you're opinion... My machine has no need for hardware decoding. Not supporting external filters is a good thing, one less thing to worry about. Install, point to you're video directory, sit back and watch stuff. Can't get any better then that. Just because we know what all the filters do and how to configure them doesn't mean we want to. Sometimes its nice to have software that just works without constant tweaking.
Click to expand...
Download CCCP> double click> click yes to whatever dialogs and you're done. How is that hard? XBMC on the other hand I played around in it's config options for a half hour and it still wouldn't properly work with my XP Pro server or playback over half of my videos. Oh, and requiring a Quad CPU to playback videos is just total, absolute fail. :rolleyes:

Not worth my time but yes, this is my opinion much like your ridiculous opinion on the use of CCCP.
 
CrimandEvil said:
Actually, the onboard Intel is going to be worse. I wouldn't bother with it honestly.
Click to expand...

It should actually be better than that particular ATI card in all but one test. For a discrete card for HTPC the ATI 3450 is horrible. However the ATI 4000 series is top notch.
 
CrimandEvil said:
Download CCCP> double click> click yes to whatever dialogs and you're done. How is that hard? XBMC on the other hand I played around in it's config options for a half hour and it still wouldn't properly work with my XP Pro server or playback over half of my videos. Oh, and requiring a Quad CPU to playback videos is just total, absolute fail. :rolleyes:

Not worth my time but yes, this is my opinion much like your ridiculous opinion on the use of CCCP.
Click to expand...

XBMC is a pain to setup but it certainly doesn't take a quad core. My lowly 2.2ghz Core 2 Duo has no problem. I did have to go through and rename a bunch of files to show up. I also have miscellaneous files in folders that won't show up. And getting my remote to work has been a battle. But it's a great app. All of my video plays back fine. Haven't had a single file that wouldn't.
I wish it would still show videos even if it can't associate info to them. That way I could at least manually add them.

But I have to agree with others about codec packs. I avoid them at all costs. Been running my HTPC for a couple of years and have learned to avoid them. I only go for an absolute bare minimum of what I need. Codec packs can cause too many conflicts but more importantly they make troubleshooting a pain when you have video/audio issues. I know there are alot of differing opinions about these. That's just mine.
 
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