Yeoldstonercaterlolz

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ben chi(f4)

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Mar 4, 2008
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Yeold,

How you doing? I have a quick question for you. With all the clients you have, how many of them backup to cold/warm sites? I've been looking to a possible small offsite backup startup and wondering how much of the demand is there and if you do recommened them to backup offsite, which do you recommed and why?
 
Link of Wonder and Amazement... lol

Next time I have to send something to some of my users with a link I'm using that title. :D
 
For our smaller clients, we built our own solution based off or hardware we purchased, and a software backup product called RBackup.
http://www.remote-backup.com/

We have our server cabinet 2 floors up from us in a data center sitting on a 45 meg pipe.

I'm currently in the hunt for a solution for a much larger job...dealing with many 1gb images from full server image backups each night to a local NAS on a clients network. To each day gotta backup around 1.5TB of data.
 
And what's wrong with kicking up a thread every now and then about this? It's a fast changing technology that a lot of us have our eyes on, it's always good to see what others are doing, and what works well for them.
 
Thanks,

What I'm looking at is buying some hardware, I have a few ips available to me and provide an online backup solution for small companies or individual users.
 
ben chi(f4) said:
Thanks,

What I'm looking at is buying some hardware, I have a few ips available to me and provide an online backup solution for small companies or individual users.
Click to expand...

At the time we set it up, we just picked up an NFR Linksys Storage NAS, it's a 1U box...I forget the model number. Hot swap SATA drive interfaces in the front with 4 1TB drives in it. Storage Server 2003 on it.

For your host...you don't need speed, as your pulling data down from the internet, so your internet pipe is your bottleneck. So a big NAS solution with SATA drives in RAID will be just fine.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
At the time we set it up, we just picked up an NFR Linksys Storage NAS, it's a 1U box...I forget the model number. Hot swap SATA drive interfaces in the front with 4 1TB drives in it. Storage Server 2003 on it.

For your host...you don't need speed, as your pulling data down from the internet, so your internet pipe is your bottleneck. So a big NAS solution with SATA drives in RAID will be just fine.
Click to expand...

heh.. you said pipe. What type of connection do you have? FIOS's 50/20 for ~200.00 a month is pricey.
 
ben chi(f4) said:
heh.. you said pipe. What type of connection do you have? FIOS's 50/20 for ~200.00 a month is pricey.
Click to expand...

The data center upstairs has several pipes feeding it, since they do a lot of managed bandwidth for biz clients, WANs, RLAN DSL for clients, Motorola Canopy, managed T1s and SONET and blah blah. This summer had a bunch of dark fiber brought in. Even downstairs here at my office...with a bunch of stuff going on, I'm usually hovering around 20/20...sometimes 25/30. Our office jumps through a few switches leading upstairs though, tests done at the servers in the cabinet going right to the big Cisco generally bang up past 30.


Anyways, we're still fed by his DS3...moving to the newer SONET soon.
 
You are using RBS? I'm sorry. That software is TERRIBLE.
I have had so many of our backup partners come back to us and say they couldn't even give their licenses away and they had problem after problem.

Stonecat, if you are looking for a better solution for larger jobs I recommend the following vendors. We host backup servers for all these so I know they work incredibly well.

Vembu Storegrid
Ahsay OBS
CrashPlan Pro (no exchange or sql, but damn good software)
Novastor
Kaseya
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
You are using RBS? I'm sorry. That software is TERRIBLE.
I have had so many of our backup partners come back to us and say they couldn't even give their licenses away and they had problem after problem.
Click to expand...

Haven't had an issue with it, have tested quite a few data restores without problem //shrug
But good to have other options listed for future reference. Sorta getting 1/2 interested in Kaseya.
 
We do remote backup for clients using Ahsay's software. Our setup is a Dell Poweredge server with SATA Raid 5 w/ hot spare. The data is replicated to another location onto an identical server configuration.

Our primary site has a FIOs 20/20 connection with no problems backing up 25 or so servers on a nightly basis.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
I'm currently in the hunt for a solution for a much larger job...dealing with many 1gb images from full server image backups each night to a local NAS on a clients network. To each day gotta backup around 1.5TB of data.
Click to expand...

Not sure if you've seen or worked with it, but Kaseya integrates Acronis Imaging in their product that may give you an idea of what to look for. Kaseya's BUDR not only creates images and offsites them, but Kaseya's integration takes care of creating a new full backup at the offsite server by rolling up several incrementals into the previous full backup.

While this feature of Acronis, Kaseya automates the entire process.
 
Stonecat have you ever looked into IBM FastBack? It use to be called FilesX. Tapeless backup solution with the capability of backing up off site to a colo or backup datacenter.

We use it for 1 place right now, but thats about it. They have their data come across a 1.5 mb dsl pipe every night to our data center
 
SJConsultant said:
Not sure if you've seen or worked with it, but Kaseya integrates Acronis Imaging in their product that may give you an idea of what to look for. Kaseya's BUDR not only creates images and offsites them, but Kaseya's integration takes care of creating a new full backup at the offsite server by rolling up several incrementals into the previous full backup.

While this feature of Acronis, Kaseya automates the entire process.
Click to expand...

Kaseya was one I was looking at as well. Passed on it because I (initial setup aside) hadn't the time to do more again. To do it properly, I mean you could almost hire a backup guy that did nothing more than that... Just didn't want to add that mess to what I've got so I just outsourced it, basically... A company sent me a NAS, I plugged it into the network, they did the rest.

That, and to do it properly in-house and offsite, I'd had to have done some sort of construction/build in, upgrade our internet connections, all sorts of extra $$ involved which would make for a VERY lengthy ROI compared to outsourcing it and knowing it works- without the headache.

So- that's what I found about doing it yourself.
But then again I'm not managing several clients that could all connect into my server that'd make it easier to add additional folks, either.

So Kaseya works with Acronis then as well- I was under the impression it was self-contained peice of software?
 
SJConsultant said:
Not sure if you've seen or worked with it, but Kaseya integrates Acronis Imaging in their product that may give you an idea of what to look for. Kaseya's BUDR not only creates images and offsites them, but Kaseya's integration takes care of creating a new full backup at the offsite server by rolling up several incrementals into the previous full backup.

While this feature of Acronis, Kaseya automates the entire process.
Click to expand...

I've seen a peek of Kaseya.....a friend of mine that does the same thing we do..on the other end of the state, keeps telling me to "check it out".

I have a feeling I'll be going that way...in a year or two. :D So far, I keep fighting the remote managed thing. I've taken pride in my personal approach to working with clients, going onsite, chit chatting, visiting, etc. Going with remote management like Kaseya makes me think of outsourced helpdesk Habu from Delhi, the kind of competition we in SMB/Enterprise are starting to face more 'n more.

I have a feeling I'll succumb and be using something like this in a year or two or three.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Going with remote management like Kaseya makes me think of outsourced helpdesk Habu from Delhi, the kind of competition we in SMB/Enterprise are starting to face more 'n more.
Click to expand...

It is, but seriously it comes down to cost... To buy a decent enough pipe on both sides to do your own images, add in cost to build a room or something in the offsite office or whatnot, server racks, cooling, power backups.
Then your monthly fees of internet connections, electricity, general maintenance, software maintenance on the stuff you're running, etc, etc, etc....

Having something like this makes pretty good financial sense for SMBs.

Now once you get to the size Dell, HP, Microsoft, etc get: Obviously you not only have the money but it makes better financial sense to do it yourself anyway.

Let me tell you: it's huge to not have to worry about backups. It's great... Any issues (and there are very few)- they just shoot me and email and/or call.
 
TechieSooner said:
So Kaseya works with Acronis then as well- I was under the impression it was self-contained peice of software?
Click to expand...

Kaseya basically front ends the Acronis software including all of the automation and scripting. Anyone with a little programming experience could create their own set of scripts to do the same thing if they already have Acronis.


YeOldeStonecat said:
I've seen a peek of Kaseya.....a friend of mine that does the same thing we do..on the other end of the state, keeps telling me to "check it out".

I have a feeling I'll be going that way...in a year or two. :D So far, I keep fighting the remote managed thing. I've taken pride in my personal approach to working with clients, going onsite, chit chatting, visiting, etc. Going with remote management like Kaseya makes me think of outsourced helpdesk Habu from Delhi, the kind of competition we in SMB/Enterprise are starting to face more 'n more.

I have a feeling I'll succumb and be using something like this in a year or two or three.
Click to expand...

If there is one thing I've learned from using Kaseya, is that our clients LOVE the fact that we can take care of their problems quickly and remotely. However, we still schedule techs for weekly onsite visits to keep that "personal" touch with clients and allow some time for chit chat and growing the relationship since we also take pride in the relationships we have with our clients and I'm not about to change that anytime soon.

Think of Kaseya as a way for you to take on more clients and spend more"quality time" with them because your saving so much time by automating many regular tasks.

Sure your going to spend alot of time at first getting familiar with the features and functions, but once you get a taste of being able to get tasks done in less time, your going to want to do and automate more with it.
 
Marley

I juststarted dipping into the Managed Services arena. To get started, look here. It's a bit more cost effective when you are just trying it out.

Plus they are a great group of guys. Training/marketing etc is included with signup

PM if you need additional info.
 
TechieSooner said:
It is, but seriously it comes down to cost... To buy a decent enough pipe on both sides to do your own images, add in cost to build a room or something in the offsite office or whatnot, server racks, cooling, power backups.
Then your monthly fees of internet connections, electricity, general maintenance, software maintenance on the stuff you're running, etc, etc, etc.....
Click to expand...

Yup I'm well aware of that. But I'm going to use my heavy slice of OC3 that I pay 400 bucks per month for to have our full size cabinet in the data center with a big block of public IP addresses, electricity included, totally unmetered bandwidth..to my advantage as an SMB VAR. And I'm going to fight to keep money in my American pocket with my clients, not give up and let them go to Habu.

I shoot for higher end clients that don't mind paying, and they know you get what you pay for. The penny pinching miser clients..they can get get their cheap 65 dollar an hour geek squad boy.
 
SJConsultant said:
Sure your going to spend alot of time at first getting familiar with the features and functions, but once you get a taste of being able to get tasks done in less time, your going to want to do and automate more with it.
Click to expand...

What channel did you get it through?
 
marley1 said:
cost of the above?
Click to expand...

Depends on how many end nodes you want to manage. Not sure if I can post any pricing here.

boatasiaus said:
Marley

I juststarted dipping into the Managed Services arena. To get started, look here. It's a bit more cost effective when you are just trying it out.

Plus they are a great group of guys. Training/marketing etc is included with signup

PM if you need additional info.
Click to expand...

Kaseya has a free 30 day trial for anyone wanting to play with before paying any money.

YeOldeStonecat said:
What channel did you get it through?
Click to expand...

I went direct to Kaseya. While it costs more up front, the software is on our server on our internet connection in which we handle the daily backups and any "maintenance" that may be needed.
 
SJConsultant said:
Kaseya basically front ends the Acronis software including all of the automation and scripting. Anyone with a little programming experience could create their own set of scripts to do the same thing if they already have Acronis.
Click to expand...
So TrueImage is required to run it?



boatasiaus said:
I juststarted dipping into the Managed Services arena. To get started, look here. It's a bit more cost effective when you are just trying it out.
Click to expand...

So, if I'm looking at the "Hosted Kaseya" correctly:
$17/mo Platinum Virtual Administrator
$30/mo 2 Server Backups

I mean, surely that's not all there is, I mean what if I've got to backup 5TB of Data each night?
 
TechieSooner said:
So TrueImage is required to run it?
Click to expand...

Yes Acronis trueimage is required, it is an "add on" to the Kaseya software and labeled as a BUDR (backup and disaster recovery) module. It is not an independent module therefore you shouldn't be looking at Kaseya to use just for a backup solution.

TechieSooner said:
So, if I'm looking at the "Hosted Kaseya" correctly:
$17/mo Platinum Virtual Administrator
$30/mo 2 Server Backups

I mean, surely that's not all there is, I mean what if I've got to backup 5TB of Data each night?
Click to expand...

You can host the offsite storage yourself or you pay additional to someone else to host it for you.
 
SJConsultant said:
You can host the offsite storage yourself or you pay additional to someone else to host it for you.
Click to expand...

So who ensures my backups work, the client hosting the servers or the folks providing the license?

If it's the former... I don't see any advantage to that way.
 
TechieSooner said:
So who ensures my backups work, the client hosting the servers or the folks providing the license?

If it's the former... I don't see any advantage to that way.
Click to expand...

If you are the one "renting" the licenses, then its up to you to check the logs and verify everything is working.

Backups are never a "set it and forget it" task. Someone needs to verify the backup jobs are being completed and more importantly someone had better be checking to make sure data can be restored. If no one is doing both of those tasks then someone isn't doing their job. I don't trust any third party to say "yeah its working", nor do I trust them enough to perform a test restore of data as I've seen countless occurances where a full restore is necessary in order to determine if a backup system is doing the job it is supposed to. But thats just how I prefer to operate my business.

Kaseya is what works for us, our clients, in our situation. It's not for everyone.
 
I've done restores just fine (it's the first thing I verified) and it works flawlessly... Only time I have to screw with it is if for whatever reason they are unable to take the backup images (which has only been a couple times).
 
SJConsultant said:
Kaseya has a free 30 day trial for anyone wanting to play with before paying any money.



I went direct to Kaseya. While it costs more up front, the software is on our server on our internet connection in which we handle the daily backups and any "maintenance" that may be needed.
Click to expand...

Absolutely true. However, 1) I'm not sure the 30 days is enough (it wasn't for me...) and 2) the cost of a few installs from virtualadministrator just seemed easier than the time spent on a local setup.

At some point is does make sense to bring Kaseya in-house. I'm still playing with the numbers to determine what that point is...
 
All, the information provided is very useful. But, here's a few questions... Aren't we looking to turn a profit (and don't tell me that's not what you're looking to do)? Why is everyone going out and buying 3rd party software/licenses, which I'm sure you have to pay a monthly/yearly support fee (in most cases)? Doesn't all the above drive up the costs of what you're finally going to charge your customers to store data onto your online backup solution?

Shouldn't we look to find a more economical in-house solution to our clients than having to outsource to a different vendor?
 
ben chi(f4) said:
Shouldn't we look to find a more economical in-house solution to our clients than having to outsource to a different vendor?
Click to expand...

That's the direction I try to focus on more. I don't want my clients to dole out money to some 3rd party which will take away part of my job. Hence why so far I've preferred to pay for products like RBackup out of my pocket, and then I resell that service to clients with 100% of that monthly fee going back into my pockets.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
with 100% of that monthly fee going back into my pockets.
Click to expand...

I see what you did there, "pockets". Why only have money going into one pocket when you have two, right!?

So, when your clients connect, they just use that interface to connect to your online solution and they can drag and drop as they wish?
 
Doing it yourself, for you consultants, makes more financial sense anyway. You can have a central backup server for all your clients (one cost for multiple clients), and then all you're doing is adding additional clients to it anyway.

For companies themselves, hosting it elsewhere is cheaper for the very reason it's cheaper for you... They don't have to pay for the offsite server stuff. They're just paying the monthly fee of maintaining the box on their site.
 
ben chi(f4) said:
I see what you did there, "pockets". Why only have money going into one pocket when you have two, right!?

So, when your clients connect, they just use that interface to connect to your online solution and they can drag and drop as they wish?
Click to expand...

No I preset it...important directories on servers, or on some smaller users workstations..their My Docs folder, Outlook PST, faves, desktop, etc. Just runs silently automatically in the background at night.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
No I preset it...important directories on servers, or on some smaller users workstations..their My Docs folder, Outlook PST, faves, desktop, etc. Just runs silently automatically in the background at night.
Click to expand...

There's freebie software that does that same thing actually, but advantage of going with something professional level is if you do what mine can do... Virtualize the server backups at any point in time.

IE, if my server goes down, the backup server on-site can virtualize any backup of my chosing (I take snapshots every 15 minutes) in the time it takes to mount it- and boot it.
 
TechieSooner said:
There's freebie software that does that same thing actually, but advantage of going with something professional level is if you do what mine can do... Virtualize the server backups at any point in time..
Click to expand...

On the desktop level...yes. On the server level, I wouldn't run "freebie" software. My clients want a set 'n forget solution that we monitor. If they wan't freebie stuff..they can go to geeksquad or read up in PCWorld themselves....I don't have time to worry about cheapies.
 
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