XP legal question

Status
Not open for further replies.

nomak

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
419
I got a guy that I don’t know to well but that I know through a friend whose wanting to start a business and all that goes along with it, but he wants to sell refurbished dell optiplex’s. I know he said 260's models and maybe 240's I can’t remember and those are so old now a day who knows for sure what the model number is but I am sure of the 260. Well anyways He’s trying to tell me that he has access to thousands of them for dirt cheap and needs a helper in making sure the hardware is all up to shape and working. I ask him does he have all the XP software for these computers to reinstall on them so that they are up and going to be sold. He tells me he clones them all. I get thinking about this and I ask him what do you mean clone them all and he tells me he clones all lets say he has 500 at the time with one hard drive he has that has a XP install that is a Dell factory install on it and nothing else added to it.. Basically he has a hard drive with a dell factory install with SP2 or 3 or maybe even 1 on it I didn’t ask. I just went on to explain to him that he cant put the same clone on all of those machines even if they are exactly alike hardware wise due to the fact of licensing legality’s. I said this would end up putting the same product key on hundreds if not thousands of pc that he did this to and I know for one that’s illegal. Then he goes to tell me that the product key is not on the cd or stored in the registry but they are all different because there are stored in the BIOS of each pc so different pc, different bios, different product key... I said now the activation code is stored is your BIOS not the product key. Well needless to say I was a little sharper than he thought I was because every time I put him on the spot about legality issues he instantly changed the subject and would go off on a totally different tangent. I was polite to the guy when I told him I would have to pass on this job opportunity. But I tell you one thing I sure the heck think he’s up to something shady ( con-artist ) or he’s doing a lot off illegal installations to dell computers...

Sorry so Long but had to be done to understand the situation I was approached with yesterday.....

What’s your take on this anyone???
 

nick8571

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
203
Having trudged wearily through your wall 'o' text, as far as I can see he's simply restoring the systems to the state in which Dell originally shipped them, using much the same method (mass-cloning a BIOS-locked installation).

Legally I don't see any problem, provided the machines were originally shipped with XP preinstalled, and the fresh installations are the same channel (OEM) and the same version (Home or Professional).
 

DPSmith

n00b
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
1
Also see no problem with what hes doing (having only read 1/3 of the wall), using a dell xp pro disk will restore it to factory condition and doesn't even require a code. Obviously a CoA is always a good idea to have when selling to others but still not required on dells.
 

ameoba

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 9, 2001
Messages
6,413
Don't Dells have the little "your windows is legit" sticker on them?
 

BinarySynapse

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
15,103
As long as the systems have a COA sticker on them and he's using a factory Dell OEM install disc that matches the edition printed on the COA, then it's perfectly legit. Like someone else said, it's no different than what Dell does.They use the same product key across thousands of systems.


Also, nothing is stored in the BIOS except for a special manufacturer string (e.g. something like "Dell System"). On BIOS locked install discs, there are certain files that look for that string and then pre-activates XP if it's found. Each OEM has it's own set of files, so an like an HP disc won't pre-activate on a Dell system.
 
Last edited:

BinarySynapse

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
15,103
Microsoft has a specific program just for refurbished PCs which you want to review if you really want to be legit. (Hint: Most everyone's comments above are incorrect when dealing with Microsoft's licensing)

Refurb Licensing Guide

Microsoft MAR fact sheet


Looks like Microsoft has even revamped the program which will relaunch in Sprint of 2010.

That requires a record of 5,000 refurbs a month for the last 12 months....

And how are our comments incorrect? A valid COA and a matching factory install disc would lead to a legitimately licensed OS.
 

nomak

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
419
well yeah I realize what you are both saying and understand it can be done same with hp's and gateways and any computer company that mass produces pc's but thats why the enable or run the mini user setup so the activation code especially on OEMs dell or not they are always gonna be different...( Plus the fact no two pc's even if you ordered a 1000 are gonna have the exact same hardware setup, theres gonna be that one little thing thats different ) then the fact you have 500 computers with the same COA or product key.... your telling me this is perfectly legal ??? if it is it is Im no expert on licensing but it dont sound right to me.. But the fact when I question the guy about it working on two different models, two different hardware setups " He says that it generates its own product keys and you dont have to worry about it... since when did anyone other than windows or a PC company have the legal right to generate their own product keys... They'll be black listed in no time flat..I wish someone on here that works for dell or even windows and not someone thats just been registered here from anywhere from 1 day to 10 yrs lenght of time would chime in on this or at least someone with a better understanding of licensing agreement do's and dont's.... This is not VLK copy that he has installed to a HDD that hes cloning to all the computers and then the fact even with VLK you have to enter a product key...and on another note even though dell cd's will work on any dell computer if its not the one the cd is meant for you will be required to enter the product key when installing the OS...
 

nomak

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
419
Microsoft has a specific program just for refurbished PCs which you want to review if you really want to be legit. (Hint: Most everyone's comments above are incorrect when dealing with Microsoft's licensing)

Refurb Licensing Guide

Microsoft MAR fact sheet


Looks like Microsoft has even revamped the program which will relaunch in Sprint of 2010.



Thanks for for chiming in SJConsultant ( i have read plenty of your posts and know you work in this business and have to follow the rules so I trust you..) beacuse I wasnt buying half that crap posted up there by certain individuals ( you know who you are ) the legality of it anyways..lol...when I get some extra time I will look into the links you posted because I would like to be better educated on it than having someone who cares nothing about being legal or not giving me advice...
 

BinarySynapse

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
15,103
well yeah I realize what you are both saying and understand it can be done same with hp's and gateways and any computer company that mass produces pc's but thats why the enable or run the mini user setup so the activation code especially on OEMs dell or not they are always gonna be different...( Plus the fact no two pc's even if you ordered a 1000 are gonna have the exact same hardware setup, theres gonna be that one little thing thats different ) then the fact you have 500 computers with the same COA or product key.... your telling me this is perfectly legal ??? if it is it is Im no expert on licensing but it dont sound right to me.. But the fact when I question the guy about it working on two different models, two different hardware setups " He says that it generates its own product keys and you dont have to worry about it... since when did anyone other than windows or a PC company have the legal right to generate their own product keys... They'll be black listed in no time flat..I wish someone on here that works for dell or even windows and not someone thats just been registered here from anywhere from 1 day to 10 yrs lenght of time would chime in on this or at least someone with a better understanding of licensing agreement do's and dont's.... This is not VLK copy that he has installed to a HDD that hes cloning to all the computers and then the fact even with VLK you have to enter a product key...and on another note even though dell cd's will work on any dell computer if its not the one the cd is meant for you will be required to enter the product key when installing the OS...

No, every Dell XP Home SP1 CD uses the exact same key as all the others. All system that came with XP Home SP1 used that key. The same is true for each different edition or service pack level. Activation is not done online, but through a special routine that includes the OEMBIOS files and an SLP string in the BIOS. The keys on the COAs are never used, unless the end user wipes the system and did a reinstall without a Dell install disc. The install key is embedded into an answer file on the OEM disc, so the user never has to enter it.

As for keys being generated, no, same key every time. It's the Product ID is that is generated and will be different on every system, but that's generated based on the hardware, product key, and random seeding.


Any Dell cd will work on any Dell system that uses the same BIOS string, and you won't need to enter a key. It would be too cost prohibitive to make a completely different stamping for every system they sold, just so that each system had a different installed key (NOT COA key, that's an entirely different deal).
 
Last edited:

nomak

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
419
No, every Dell XP Home SP1 CD uses the exact same key as all the others. All system that came with XP Home SP1 used that key. The same is true for each different edition or service pack level. Activation is not done online, but through a special routine that includes the OEMBIOS files and an SLP string in the BIOS. The keys on the COAs are never used, unless the end user wipes the system and did a reinstall without a Dell install disc. The install key is embedded into an answer file on the OEM disc, so the user never has to enter it.

As for keys being generated, no, same key every time. It's the Product ID is that is generated and will be different on every system, but that's generated based on the hardware, product key, and random seeding.


Any Dell cd will work on any Dell system that uses the same BIOS string, and you won't need to enter a key. It would be too cost prohibitive to make a completely different stamping for every system they sold, just so that each system had a different installed key (NOT COA key, that's an entirely different deal).


I have three different dells I personally own and each has its own unique key now I have no Idea where ure getting this from but it makes absolutley no sense...and Im refering to the COA key not just the activation key which is also different because its generated from the different hardware thats in a system kinda like no two mac addresses are the same on NIC cards...and if what you are saying is true then dell is setting them selves up for there systems to be pirated. Yes I know any dell cd will be recognized by any dell and thats the string I believe you are thinking of but the activation is not the same on any pc...cant be you have to call microsoft on every pc you turned on after it locked up after 30 days for non activation and having same activation key as 500 other pcs.. and the mobo has the NIC built which is where a portion of the activation key is generated from which like I said no two are the same...
 

BinarySynapse

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
15,103
I have three different dells I personally own and each has its own unique key now I have no Idea where ure getting this from but it makes absolutley no sense...and Im refering to the COA key not just the activation key which is also different because its generated from the different hardware thats in a system kinda like no to mac addresses are the same on NIC cards...

If by "activation key" you mean the extra long hardware hash you read off to the MS rep (or the one they read back to you), then that's not at all what I'm talking about.

Dell (or HP, Gateway, etc) does not use the key on the COA to install and activate XP. They are provided a special SLP key from MS (similar to VLK, but not). The SLP key, along with special OEMBIOS.* files cause Windows to look at a certain place in the BIOS for a string (e.g. "Dell System") and if it's there, Windows automatically activates without tying it to the hardware.

If the string is not found or the Dell CD isn't used, then Windows will ask for the user to enter a key. Since most users don't know the special SLP key, they'll use the one printed on the COA sticker. The COA key isn't an SLP key, you'll have to manually activate Windows.

This allows Dell (or HP, Gateway, etc) to make a single install, configure it for multiple systems, then clone it to hard drives that go into customers system. As the system rolls down the assembly line, a cloned drive is slapped in, a COA sticker is slapped on, and a pre-made reinstall disc is thrown in the box.
 

nomak

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
419
Let me make this simple unless youre a employee for microsoft of dell or have many yrs of dealing with licensing issues with windows products please do not resond to this thread cause theres so much nonsense in this thres right now it makes me wish I never started and thinking of asking to have it locked down....so Please respect me on this issue thats all I ask.. I dont need ever college enrolled
1st yr student at MIT awnsering what they may or may not know... I want facts here not what rumors floating around the class room were for the day...
 

nomak

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
419
If by "activation key" you mean the extra long hardware hash you read off to the MS rep (or the one they read back to you), then that's not at all what I'm talking about.

Dell (or HP, Gateway, etc) does not use the key on the COA to install and activate XP. They are provided a special SLP key from MS (similar to VLK, but not). The SLP key, along with special OEMBIOS.* files cause Windows to look at a certain place in the BIOS for a string (e.g. "Dell System") and if it's there, Windows automatically activates without tying it to the hardware.

If the string is not found or the Dell CD isn't used, then Windows will ask for the user to enter a key. Since most users don't know the special SLP key, they'll use the one printed on the COA sticker. The COA key isn't an SLP key, you'll have to manually activate Windows.

This allows Dell (or HP, Gateway, etc) to make a single install, configure it for multiple systems, then clone it to hard drives that go into customers system. As the system rolls down the assembly line, a cloned drive is slapped in, a COA sticker is slapped on, and a pre-made reinstall disc is thrown in the box.

ok one more time that key you are refering to in the bios is embedded in every dell pc to look at the cd I agree but its there to make sure your putting a dell cd in the system and not a newer version of windows from a gateway cd. Then you get the message on the screen this cd will only work in dells...
 

BinarySynapse

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
15,103
Let me make this simple unless youre a employee for microsoft of dell or have many yrs of dealing with licensing issues with windows products please do not resond to this thread cause theres so much nonsense in this thres right now it makes me wish I never started and thinking of asking to have it locked down....so Please respect me on this issue thats all I ask.. I dont need ever college enrolled
1st yr student at MIT awnsering what they may or may not know... I want facts here not what rumors floating around the class room were for the day...


Look up system locked preinstallation. MS has even released generic SLP keys to the public for three editions of XP (not home) so they can install Windows with SLP enabled media (e.g. Dell reinstallation disc) without having to activate.
 

BinarySynapse

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
15,103
ok one more time that key you are refering to in the bios is embedded in every dell pc to look at the cd I agree but its there to make sure your putting a dell cd in the system and not a newer version of windows from a gateway cd. Then you get the message on the screen this cd will only work in dells...

No, there is no key in the BIOS, only a text string chosen by the manufacturer. The only thing that keeps you from putting a gateway disc in a dell system is that string, and the OEMBIOS.* files on the cd. Each manufacturer is provided with their own set of those files that look for THAT manufacturer's chosen BIOS text string.

Vista and 7 do things a bit differently, but still very similar.

The keys on the COA stickers are never used by the manufacturers. In fact, when people found that out, they started stealing the keys from store displays. So MS locked those keys out from online activation in 2005.
 

staticlag

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
1,679
He's right 100%, all embedded COA product keys in the volume machines are the same. The sticker on the case is different but the embedded code used to make the OS active is the same, and its not apparent to the end-user without special MS tools.

The guy selling the machines is right on the money, he can clone one drive with the Dell OEM COA in it and it will be legal and valid for all Dell PCs that have a COA sticker on the box.
 

BinarySynapse

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
15,103
He's right 100%, all embedded COA product keys in the volume machines are the same. The sticker on the case is different but the embedded code used to make the OS active is the same, and its not apparent to the end-user without special MS tools.

The guy selling the machines is right on the money, he can clone one drive with the Dell OEM COA in it and it will be legal and valid for all Dell PCs that have a COA sticker on the box.

As long as he doesn't change the motherboard to a non-Dell part and hack the BIOS to have the proper SLP string / SLIC table.
 

SJConsultant

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
3,600
That requires a record of 5,000 refurbs a month for the last 12 months....

If you bothered to read through the links, you would have noticed Microsoft is launching a MARs program for smaller refurbishers who don't refurb that many computers in a month.

And how are our comments incorrect? A valid COA and a matching factory install disc would lead to a legitimately licensed OS.

Did I say "hey ryan_975 your wrong!"? No, I said MOST (note that MOST doesn't mean ALL) statements were incorrect.

MOST people assume a COA is all that is needed to be "legit" , but that's not the case when a business is refurbishing the computer. Not only is a COA required, but the refurbisher is required to provide genuine recovery media or factory hard drive recovery (note this means no building the recovery media or HDD image yourself).

If you want to get technical, refurbishers are not allowed to use any method of cloning or imaging since they are supposed to reinstall the OS from the orginal factory restore disks if they are available. Otherwise if factory restore CD isn't available, then the refurbisher is supposed to acquire the OS media from retail channels.

When I posted my comment, no one (including yourself) had pointed out that some kind of media would also be required to be included as part of the refurb process and if you really want to split hairs, what major OEMs are allowed to do when they build the machines (such as cloning, imaging, using same product key, etc) doesn't mean refurbishers have the same "rights" as evidenced by the information in the links I provided earlier.


The guy selling the machines is right on the money, he can clone one drive with the Dell OEM COA in it and it will be legal and valid for all Dell PCs that have a COA sticker on the box.

More misinformation. Apparently you didn't read the information in the links either or you would know imaging or cloning isn't allowed when refurbishing systems.
 

BinarySynapse

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
15,103
If you bothered to read through the links, you would have noticed Microsoft is launching a MARs program for smaller refurbishers who don't refurb that many computers in a month.



Did I say "hey ryan_975 your wrong!"? No, I said MOST (note that MOST doesn't mean ALL) statements were incorrect.

MOST people assume a COA is all that is needed to be "legit" , but that's not the case when a business is refurbishing the computer. Not only is a COA required, but the refurbisher is required to provide genuine recovery media or factory hard drive recovery (note this means no building the recovery media or HDD image yourself).

If you want to get technical, refurbishers are not allowed to use any method of cloning or imaging since they are supposed to reinstall the OS from the orginal factory restore disks if they are available. Otherwise if factory restore CD isn't available, then the refurbisher is supposed to acquire the OS media from retail channels.

When I posted my comment, no one (including yourself) had pointed out that some kind of media would also be required to be included as part of the refurb process and if you really want to split hairs, what major OEMs are allowed to do when they build the machines (such as cloning, imaging, using same product key, etc) doesn't mean refurbishers have the same "rights" as evidenced by the information in the links I provided earlier.

So you are saying I'm wrong then. What's the point of you quoting me and lashing out? Notice I also didn't refer specifically to myself; I said "How are OUR comments wrong?"

As far as refurbishing goes, there's no license agreement between the refurbisher and MS. So they can't exactly dictate how they go about their business (as long as they're not breaking copyright laws by providing illegal copies of Windows. Having a COA sticker on the machine and the correct Windows install is all that's required to be legit for the end user. OEMs and Systembuilders however have to provide media because they ARE bound by a license that dictates they provide it.


EDIT: As for your "You didn't bother reading what I linked" attititude. I very well did. The revamped program requires you to be a non-profit providing 20 computers a year. From what I can tell, if you're are for-profit, then you still have to meet the 60,000 / yr requirement. And all that just so that you can say you're a Microsoft AUTHORIZED refurbisher. That's like being authorized to work on Dell or Apple computers. It really means two squirts of nothing unless you want to maintain people's warranties.
 
Last edited:

SJConsultant

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
3,600
As far as refurbishing goes, there's no license agreement between the refurbisher and MS. So they can't exactly dictate how they go about their business (as long as they're not breaking copyright laws by providing illegal copies of Windows. Having a COA sticker on the machine and the correct Windows install is all that's required to be legit for the end user. OEMs and Systembuilders however have to provide media because they ARE bound by a license that dictates they provide it.

If your refurbishing computers and not doing so under the MAR's program, you are guilty of copyright infringement according to Microsoft. This is a fact and cannot be disputed. Microsoft has made it quite clear in their MARs documentation as far as what constitutes a valid or invalid license.

I've provided links to backup everything I stated, yet you haven't provided anything to prove otherwise. So please feel free to continue spouting your ignorance of the topic.

The OP asked for information in which I provided him with the correct and proper links for him to ensure his friend doesn't run afoul of Microsoft's licensing. If you don't agree with how Microsoft does business, that's your problem.
 

BinarySynapse

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
15,103
If your refurbishing computers and not doing so under the MAR's program, you are guilty of copyright infringement according to Microsoft. This is a fact and cannot be disputed. Microsoft has made it quite clear in their MARs documentation as far as what constitutes a valid or invalid license.

I've provided links to backup everything I stated, yet you haven't provided anything to prove otherwise. So please feel free to continue spouting your ignorance of the topic.

The OP asked for information in which I provided him with the correct and proper links for him to ensure his friend doesn't run afoul of Microsoft's licensing. If you don't agree with how Microsoft does business, that's your problem.

Look up the Adobe vs Softman case where they tried to sue a guy for violating the license terms by splitting up bundled software. They lost because the guy was a middle man and had no agreement with Adobe. The same applies to MS. A refurbisher is a middle man and has no agreement with MS. They can preach infringement till they're blue in the face, but it does not make it so. They are providing a copy of Windows that was ALREADY legit from the OEM. They are not making another copy and thus not guilty of infringement.
 
Last edited:

staticlag

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
1,679
Lol, man I've been doing refurbs for 12 yrs, ever since I was 14 yrs old working to refurb them for the peace corps I'm pretty sure I know the rights...

Like I said, you can clone all day long as long as the clone is of an official barebones installation with the generic COA key.

And the restore disc (which of course everyone provides because that's just common courtesy) can be 100% homebrew as long as: its only of the barebones install and doesn't have any programs on it.
 

staticlag

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
1,679
PS, dude it appears you don't know to read, b/c those links you provided not only prove what I was saying but it also confirms that:

a) to refurb you do not need MAR membership
b) MAR membership is a special privilege that allows you to generate your own COA keys for charity work, in case the PCs need an OS upgrade but they have another version of windows on them or a missing COA.
 

nomak

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
419
Mods please close this thread its gotten way out of hand here.. every person that has touched a pc since they were 10 knows eveything about licensing rights and are making insults to well respected posters" SJConsultant" on here....Its went from a trying to recieve some valid information to a big argument thread that has me being attacked via PM's.. You know who you are whos harrasing me via PM so I asked you for last time to nicely stop. I will report you the next message I recieve from you...


Please close this thread Mods... Thank you.....
 

BinarySynapse

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
15,103
Mods please close this thread its gotten way out of hand here.. every person that has touched a pc since they were 10 knows eveything about licensing rights and are making insults to well respected posters" SJConsultant" on here....Its went from a trying to recieve some valid information to a big argument thread that has me being attacked via PM's.. You know who you are whos harrasing me via PM so I asked you for last time to nicely stop. I will report you the next message I recieve from you...


Please close this thread Mods... Thank you.....


I don't know who all were harassing you, but I know for a fact that any message sent to you by me were purely informative, and only in response to messages you sent to me (after your intial public attack on us, mind you).

I've also seen no one insult SJConsultant. Disagree with him, sure, but that's hardly an insult.
 

nomak

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
419
I don't know who all were harassing you, but I know for a fact that any message sent to you by me were purely informative, and only in response to messages you sent to me (after your intial public attack on us, mind you).

I've also seen no one insult SJConsultant. Disagree with him, sure, but that's hardly an insult.

I was not refering to you ryan_975 about insulting SJConsultant if you read up a few posts its real clear in the first few words of the first sentence who I was refering to....:D:D:D

Have a nice day !!!!!!
 

SJConsultant

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
3,600
Look up the Adobe vs Softman case where they tried to sue a guy for violating the license terms by splitting up bundled software. They lost because the guy was a middle man and had no agreement with Adobe. The same applies to MS. A refurbisher is a middle man and has no agreement with MS. They can preach infringement till they're blue in the face, but it does not make it so. They are providing a copy of Windows that was ALREADY legit from the OEM. They are not making another copy and thus not guilty of infringement.

I'm not interested in debating the merits of a couple of court cases. My intent is to provide information that will help keep the OP's friend (and business) in good standing and reduce the likelihood of being sued or investigated for possible software piracy.


Lol, man I've been doing refurbs for 12 yrs, ever since I was 14 yrs old working to refurb them for the peace corps I'm pretty sure I know the rights.....

Your work in the Peace Corps doesn't validate your knowledge and/or experience when dealing with Microsft Licensing.

Like I said, you can clone all day long as long as the clone is of an official barebones installation with the generic COA key..

What you can do and what your supposed to do are two completely different things.

And the restore disc (which of course everyone provides because that's just common courtesy) can be 100% homebrew as long as: its only of the barebones install and doesn't have any programs on it.

For your own personal home computer thats fine. When refurbishing computers, homebrew restore discs are not permitted nor do they constitute a valid Windows License according to Microsoft.


PS, dude it appears you don't know to read, b/c those links you provided not only prove what I was saying but it also confirms that:

a) to refurb you do not need MAR membership
b) MAR membership is a special privilege that allows you to generate your own COA keys for charity work, in case the PCs need an OS upgrade but they have another version of windows on them or a missing COA.

Would be helpful if you'd post a link to where you found that information instead of selectively cut and pasting information or paraphrasing it.
 

nomak

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
419
SJConsultant... although I dont know you personally I have followed alot of your posts and threads on for here for yrs and I have grown a respect for your knowledge.. Just to let you know the guy ended up being a shady character and we are not going to do business together mainly because of the legal issues involved. Plus the fact he stalled when I questioned him about it and then kept trying to change subject when I would bring the legality of it up again.. we had the meeting been wuite few days ago and he assured me he would be getting back in touch with me in three hrs max.. well till this day I dont expect to hear from him ever again...He knows what hes doing was not legally right and I was not getting involved in it. But I just posted my situation on here to get some info from the people like your self that have been dealing with these types of issues for yrs and getting a legitimate and legal anwser which you have provided me with links you posted.. So to you I say thank you for being a part of this mess but its something thats not gonna happen between me and this other guy because of the legality issues.. I dont want investigated or sued or to lose my certifications I worked hard and cost me a pretty penny to get in college.. thanks again SJ....:D:D:D
 

BinarySynapse

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
15,103
SJConsultant... although I dont know you personally I have followed alot of your posts and threads on for here for yrs and I have grown a respect for your knowledge.. Just to let you know the guy ended up being a shady character and we are not going to do business together mainly because of the legal issues involved. Plus the fact he stalled when I questioned him about it and then kept trying to change subject when I would bring the legality of it up again.. we had the meeting been wuite few days ago and he assured me he would be getting back in touch with me in three hrs max.. well till this day I dont expect to hear from him ever again...He knows what hes doing was not legally right and I was not getting involved in it. But I just posted my situation on here to get some info from the people like your self that have been dealing with these types of issues for yrs and getting a legitimate and legal anwser which you have provided me with links you posted.. So to you I say thank you for being a part of this mess but its something thats not gonna happen between me and this other guy because of the legality issues.. I dont want investigated or sued or to lose my certifications I worked hard and cost me a pretty penny to get in college.. thanks again SJ....:D:D:D

Like I said before, the guy might be shady. Only you could have determined that since no one else but you has to deal with him. If you're not comfortable with what he's doing, then by all means don't do business with him.

That being said, we weren't discussing the legality of your situation. We were discussing the concept behind what you told us he was doing. Top tier OEMs all do thing differently than we're allowed to do simply due to economics of scale. We deal with maybe 100-1000 systems a year. Maybe more; maybe less.. Distributing an OS, each with a unique key, to these system is nothing. But the manufacturers are distributing 1000's of system a week sometimes. MS allows them certain privileges because of how much money they hand over. One of those privileges is the ability to use a master key to pre-activate a single image and distribute that image to a multitude of systems and configurations (which is why you sometimes see drivers installed for hardware that's not in that system). Then they slap a COA sticker with a pre-printed Unique key on it that's not ever been used on the machine, throw in a restore CD that's SLP enabled, and out the door it goes.

Only then did it devolve into a pissing match between what Microsoft would love for everyone to believe, and what our courts (the deciding factor on legality, no?) have set as precedent for those not directly involved with the licensing of software (i.e. resellers or refurbishers). It has been said over and over that until a license is accepted, software is a product of a sale. As a product of a sale, the owner is granted the rights of First Sale doctrine.


Now, you keep saying you want to drop this, but you keep coming back in and bringing the thread from the dead. So which is it?
 
Last edited:

nomak

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
419
Like I said before, the guy might be shady. Only you could have determined that since no one else but you has to deal with him. If you're not comfortable with what he's doing, then by all means don't do business with him.

That being said, we weren't discussing the legality of your situation. We were discussing the concept behind what you told us he was doing. Top tier OEMs all do thing differently than we're allowed to do simply due to economics of scale. We deal with maybe 100-1000 systems a year. Maybe more; maybe less.. Distributing an OS, each with a unique key, to these system is nothing. But the manufacturers are distributing 1000's of system a week sometimes. MS allows them certain privileges because of how much money they hand over. One of those privileges is the ability to use a master key to pre-activate a single image and distribute that image to a multitude of systems and configurations (which is why you sometimes see drivers installed for hardware that's not in that system). Then they slap a COA sticker with a pre-printed Unique key on it that's not ever been used on the machine, throw in a restore CD that's SLP enabled, and out the door it goes.

Only then did it devolve into a pissing match between what Microsoft would love for everyone to believe, and what our courts (the deciding factor on legality, no?) have set as precedent for those not directly involved with the licensing of software (i.e. resellers or refurbishers). It has been said over and over that until a license is accepted, software is a product of a sale. As a product of a sale, the owner is granted the rights of First Sale doctrine.


Now, you keep saying you want to drop this, but you keep coming back in and bringing the thread from the dead. So which is it?

I do want to drop it with you... so why dont you drop it,I dont care what you have to say. I think thats been made very clear over the last few days now but you just wont let it go..Its eating away at you and here you go again saying I wasnt concerned with the licenseing issue.. Thats been the whole point from the D$#N get go along with other legalitys if you would read the whole post you would understand what I was asking . I was not asking what you can do or cant do I know these things for the most part not always but im concerned with legal issues and getting sued or investigated, If you want to get that done with your life then do what you gotta do ... Only thing I was doing was paying respect due to where its deserved and that was to SJ.... Not one time did I say a freaking word to you did I >???? HUH do u see in my last post me refering to you once ??? look again...cause I didnt.. I'm over your crap.. you remind me of a 7 yr old that has to always have the last word in and thinks he knows every thing.. But you know what thats fine because I love it when people talk about things they have absolutely no clue about.. Shows their real intelligence. info has done been confirmed and I got my awnser on the first page... so quit beating a dead horse here and give it up... like I told you in your pm stalkings of me I dont care what you think and I dont believe what you say unless Bill Gates comes down and tells me himself that what you say is true.. then and only then will I apoligize for not believing you... and just for the record you are the one that keeps bringing this thread back from the dead Ive asked for it to be closed or locked days ago..so I will contact the mods on the issue but the only reason and I will state it again was to thank SJ and give him the respect he deserves....Now I have a message to send to someone of higher powers...Have a nice Day....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top