Xbox 360: Why would they use a DVD ROM?

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azzkikur

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I'm extremely excited about the Xbox 360. Super powerful, multifunctions, and a focus on online and community play. BUT, why would the limit themselves to a standard sized DVD (9.4GB) when they could have used a HD DVD (19.4GB) or a Bluray DVD (27GB)? They could have had at least TWICE the storage going with either format. That means twice as much content, more videos, music, etc... Overall, it would have just allowed MUCH more freedom for the developers to make games to their full potential than trying to squeeze it all in on a smaller disc. Hopefully they'll change this before launch.

On a side not, it looks like Sony will be using a next gen disc formart, probably BluRay, for their PS3.

That's really my only gripe. I'll definitely have one pre-ordered when they become available.
 
Price. It would cost more to adopt a new format.

Backwards compatibility is still a possibility as well.

They can always put a game on two DVDs. It would be cheaper than adopting a format like Blu-Ray.
 
They're going to lose money on the X360 no matter what. They've already admitted that. They lost a ton on the Xbox, but made it back with games and accessories. Going along that train of thought, it would make more sense to adopt a new format and make better games. Better games sell more, and make them more money in return.

As far a backward compatability, Bluray drives are supposed to play regular DVDs. So no problem there. The PS3 is going to use a next gen format, I just hope that Microsoft doesn't cripple the X360 with a DVD-ROM.
 
azzkikur said:
They're going to lose money on the X360 no matter what. They've already admitted that. They lost a ton on the Xbox, but made it back with games and accessories. Going along that train of thought, it would make more sense to adopt a new format and make better games. Better games sell more, and make them more money in return.

As far a backward compatability, Bluray drives are supposed to play regular DVDs. So no problem there. The PS3 is going to use a next gen format, I just hope that Microsoft doesn't cripple the X360 with a DVD-ROM.
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Yes, they're losing a ton of money on the X360...which means that they're going to find ways to save money if it isn't useful to upgrade the technology.

It will be a long time before console games require more than two DVDs for space, so why waste money on a format that isn't necessary?

There have been no official announcements on whether or not the PS3 will use Blu-Ray. It's all rumors as of now. Even if it does, it's coming out in 2006 so they have time to refine the manufacturing process and make it cheaper.
 
HD-DVD and Blu-ray may be merging soon...or they may not. The format wars could get ugly and MS wants to stay out of it. Unless one of the camps tries to entice MS with a deal of some sort. MS may just wait until the dust settles and then uses whichever format is victorious.

If MS had to choose a format I would say HD-DVD.
 
We're still trying to get companies to release PC games on DVD at all, and here people are griping about the 360 not featuring a next-gen DVD. Ah, what a world.
 
There probably will not even be a standard production HD DVD drive by the time Xbox 2 comes out.
 
Gibo said:
We're still trying to get companies to release PC games on DVD at all, and here people are griping about the 360 not featuring a next-gen DVD. Ah, what a world.
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That's because so many people are computer illiterate. If everyone had DVD drives, we wouldn't have that problem. Believe it or not, a massive amount of people still use CD-Roms. I personally can't stand multiple cd games.
 
Neither are even available for the pc yet, and are likely to be at least a few hundred when they first come out. The 360 will already be a tremendous value when it comes out, without HD-DVD.
 
DVD9 is still plenty of room for next gen games.

As for HD DVD playback....MS said the Xbox360 will play back WMHD DVDs. Windows Media High Definition DVDs will be more prevalent over the next three years than either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Both of wich may never make it to market in any adoptable way.

I know Sony said in the past that they are going with Blu-Ray, but that was before the talks began with the HD-DVD people. Also, Blu-Ray players DON'T automatically play back DVD9s. The Blu-Ray player MUST have a red-laser inorder to paly back the DVDs that you have now. That means a dual-head laser drive....adding MORE cost to the system.

So until GDC or E3 2006...we won't know what Sony is doing for sure.
 
Gibo said:
We're still trying to get companies to release PC games on DVD at all, and here people are griping about the 360 not featuring a next-gen DVD. Ah, what a world.
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Ya but if its in a console it would be standard. The reason PC games dont usually come on DVD's is because not everyone has them. (which I think is extremely sad this day in age)

EDIT:Oh didnt see azzkikur's post I just skipped straight to a reply
 
Seriously, Sony will have NO games for a PS3 2005 release should it occur, let alone the production and technical aspects of the Cell architecture which are still largely unknown.
 
Tiny said:
DVD9 is still plenty of room for next gen games.

As for HD DVD playback....MS said the Xbox360 will play back WMHD DVDs. Windows Media High Definition DVDs will be more prevalent over the next three years than either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Both of wich may never make it to market in any adoptable way.

I know Sony said in the past that they are going with Blu-Ray, but that was before the talks began with the HD-DVD people. Also, Blu-Ray players DON'T automatically play back DVD9s. The Blu-Ray player MUST have a red-laser inorder to paly back the DVDs that you have now. That means a dual-head laser drive....adding MORE cost to the system.

So until GDC or E3 2006...we won't know what Sony is doing for sure.
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a normal dvd doesnt have the room for wmvhd. and the new dvd techs wont be out in time for the xbox to use them
 
MH Knights said:
HD-DVD and Blu-ray may be merging soon...or they may not. The format wars could get ugly and MS wants to stay out of it. Unless one of the camps tries to entice MS with a deal of some sort. MS may just wait until the dust settles and then uses whichever format is victorious.
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One, Toshiba just announced that they've managed to create a triple-layer HD-DVD, giving the thing 45GB of storage, compared to Blu-Ray's 25GB single layer/50GB dual layer. The only idea that has emerged from Sony and Toshiba's discussions about avoiding a format war has been the idea that DVD players should support both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. Meanwhile, Sony has developed a Blu-Ray disc that can hold 100GB, and is working on 200GB.

At this rate, the two formats are not going to merge.

As for Microsoft's backing of a format, they've already announced limited support for HD-DVD, which brings me to...


If MS had to choose a format I would say HD-DVD.
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The nifty thing about HD-DVD is that Microsoft doesn't have to do jack. HD-DVD is backwards compatible with all current DVD players: you don't need to buy a new DVD player to read the things. There's absolutely nothing stopping the Xbox360 from playing HD-DVDs, or stopping developers from shipping games on HD-DVD, except for the uncertainty of the format's future.
 
few games require more then 4 gigs, look at WoW, its a huge game, but only about 5 gigs/
 
Even the biggest xbox games right now are barely taking up 1/2 the disc. Why would you want to use a format that will never come close to being used 100%? Other than to thwart piracy, but we all know how well that works anyway. DVDs are fine for right now, the next systems will probably use something else. That is 5 years off tho.
 
ryanrule said:
a normal dvd doesnt have the room for wmvhd. and the new dvd techs wont be out in time for the xbox to use them
Click to expand...



almostinsane1

sure it does. I have 15 WMVHD DVD's and they all have enough room. WTF are you talking about?
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What he said.
 
If you don't like it...........go buy a PS3.

I would imagine that a game that fits on a HD-DVD would only be filled with 30 hours of cut scenes. Right now a regular DVD is plenty for console games.
 
Hardware:
Backwards compatibility with both PSone and PS2 games.
Blu-Ray discs for media; also supports: CD+RW, DVD, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD+R
Cell processor at 3.2GHz
2.18 teraflops of performance
512MB total: 256MB XDR system RAM at 3.2 GHz; 256MB of GDDRVRAM at 700MHz
Graphics:
Chip is called RSX "Reality Synthesizer" by nVidia
128 bit pixel precision and 1080p support
300 million transistors; 90nm process
Said to be more powerful than two GeForce 6800 Ultras

There you have it. Microsoft better make some changes, or there going to get left behind. Bluray, and it plays DVDs, as well as PS1 and PS2. This means developers will be able to release MASSIVE games for the PS3, and the Xbox 360 will be completely unable to have those same games.
Imagine what they can do with all the extra space. No matter what some of you think, that much space is going to make a BIG difference. They might not need the extra room, but I guarantee they'll take full advantage and deliver some revolutionary games.

GET ON THE BALL, MICROSOFT!!
 
Honestly? i can't think of anything you can really do with that extra space. Remember how everyone was saying that the Cube's 1.8gig discs were going to be a huge drawback?
 
That's a true waste of money if I've ever seen it (In regards to using Blu-Ray). That much space is just unnecessary.
 
I would like to get a developers opinion on Blue Ray.

Personally I think that developers will eventually take advantage of of but it wont be needed for a year or so. Im sure we are going to see extremley large texture sizes though now that HDTV is fully supported.
 
Michael.R said:
I would like to get a developers opinion on Blue Ray.

Personally I think that developers will eventually take advantage of of but it wont be needed for a year or so. Im sure we are going to see extremley large texture sizes though now that HDTV is fully supported.
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Gaming's future is looking very bright indeed. :)
 
Michael.R said:
I would like to get a developers opinion on Blue Ray.

Personally I think that developers will eventually take advantage of of but it wont be needed for a year or so. Im sure we are going to see extremley large texture sizes though now that HDTV is fully supported.
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But won't we also see use of better compression in textures?
 
azzkikur said:
They're going to lose money on the X360 no matter what. They've already admitted that. They lost a ton on the Xbox, but made it back with games and accessories. Going along that train of thought, it would make more sense to adopt a new format and make better games. Better games sell more, and make them more money in return.
Click to expand...

So since they're already losing money, why not lose more? No big deal?

9gigs is A LOT for a game... i highly doubt they'll be surpassing that anytime soon, and even if they do, is 2 DVD that big of a deal? I'll rather pay $400 for the console with DVD, then $450 for the console with HD-DVD that won't be used.
 
Michael.R said:
I would like to get a developers opinion on Blue Ray.

Personally I think that developers will eventually take advantage of of but it wont be needed for a year or so. Im sure we are going to see extremley large texture sizes though now that HDTV is fully supported.
Click to expand...

PC games have surpassed HDTV resolutions a long time ago, and you don't see texture sizes that would require Blue Ray.
 
Its pretty simple why XBOX 360 doesn't use blue-ray.

Blue ray licensing cost = bend over, take it dry, and like it.
 
"Nobody needs all that space for games"

Do people actually still bother with this stupidity? There was a time when games didn't come close to taking up a full floppy disk, much less a CD. There was a time when a friend of mine told me that a 600 MB hard drive would be more than I could ever need, because I could play Wing Commander 3, and "how could a game get better than that?" By the end of the PSX's lifespan, a Final Fantasy game easily filled up 4 CDs.

Stop thinking inside the box, and figuring on what developers need. Without space restrictions, developers can focus on new innovations and game designs. Unless of course you want to be playing the same 4 genres of games for the next 30 years. It's true, they tend to be space-hogs, however, there are currently games that NEED to be on a DVD9, a 4.7GB DVD5 isn't enough for them, and that's in the current generation. Honestly, lay off the ding dongs and use your brain.
 
It isn't entirely about space really, as Blueray also appears to be significantly faster than DVD rom drives.

DVDrom = 11 megs/sec off the disc

Blueray = 54 megs/sec off the disc

Depending on how fast the PS3 drive is, they can literally stream something like 300megs/sec off the disc alone.
 
EekTheKat said:
It isn't entirely about space really, as Blueray also appears to be significantly faster than DVD rom drives.

DVDrom = 11 megs/sec off the disc

Blueray = 54 megs/sec off the disc

Depending on how fast the PS3 drive is, they can literally stream something like 300megs/sec off the disc alone.
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i thought dvd read speed depends on the drive like they have different speed 8x, 16x, etc..
 
I have a feeling that Sony and toshiba is going to compromise. Otherwise somebody gonna lose big.
 
WickedAngel said:
That's a true waste of money if I've ever seen it (In regards to using Blu-Ray). That much space is just unnecessary.
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Nobody needs more than 640K RAM either. ;)
 
julyccc said:
I have a feeling that Sony and toshiba is going to compromise. Otherwise somebody gonna lose big.
Click to expand...

Talks recently came to a stand still. So don't get your hopes up.

As for the person that quoted the Blu-Ray read support in the PS3 specs....Blu_ray doesn't automaticaly read DVD9, it has to have the red laser in it. So I guess sony has a red laser too.
 
If MS wants to hit a release date for this Fall/Xmas season it had to pick a format now. Since there is still no compromise for the new standard, why risk putting in hardware that a) costs more b) not needed yet c) could be useless if you lose the "format" coin toss.

Sony is taking a gamble in putting BluRay in the PS3 if they lose the "format war". I'm sure they will cave if there is no compromise before they have to start manufacturing all these drives for the PS3.

Would not be surprised if MS will add an external drive for whatever format "wins" when it becomes affordable. Seeing as how content has to exist for their to be demand for it, I'm sure there will be huge lag between once format is decided and enough content to warrant the purchase. Shoot we could be talking about Xbox720 at that point.

If the PS3 doesn't win this one, think Sony's days are numbered, they have to be losing a ton of money on each console, and they don't have the deep pockets they used to have, and nowhere close to MS's I would think at this point.

Either way gamers win! (except for the outlay of $$$$$)
 
WickedAngel said:
That's a true waste of money if I've ever seen it (In regards to using Blu-Ray). That much space is just unnecessary.
Click to expand...

And Bill Gate's quote that 640K of ram was more enough was right on the money.
 
trungma said:
And Bill Gate's quote that 640K of ram was more enough was right on the money.
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That wasn't Bill, that was IBM bigwig.... don't blame software for a hardware limitation.
 
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