XBox 360 - Jaggies or Not?

N

NumbLock

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
508
Is it true that the XBox is the jag-o-matic?

Do y'all think that it is due to the setup being incorrect to the TV settings (which doesn't make sense to me, but some are saying...)

I have never got the kids a console and I want to buy one for Christmas - but if the XBox 360 isn't the greatest thing we've ever seen, then I will save some money and go PS2 or XBox (original).
 
http://www.xboxyde.com

They have tons of real footage from real gameplay of the Xbox 360. Most of their videos are taken directly from the TV to a camera so what you see is what you get.

Right now It appears that the test builds of these games arent using any AA so you will have jaggies, but supposivley at release time AA will be on if not something is up and you may want to hold off on buying it.

EDIT: I recommend the Kameo videos, they are very impressive but large downloads. Also PGR3 looks pretty good and has some almost lifelike graphics. At launch those are the two games that are shining out from the rest.
 
Awesome link, thanks.

Is there anywhere confirming this 'Jaggies only in Preview' conjecture? I've read this on other forums too.
 
bjork: It is important to me - and its my money. Thank you for your well thought out and intelligent reply.

Back on topic: Those videos are awesome, and most are clearly NOT prerendered.

Edit: For those who are intelligent, and /ignore 'bjork' (hehe), I did not quote him
 
sorry... my "thoughful comments regarding your money" didn't hit closer to home, but until our current generation of display devices move beyond the current threshold; that is, until they do away completely with the concept of 'pixels'... there will always be 'jaggies'.

my point: get over it.

i'll be ignoring your posts from now on, too!
 
for real, ps2 was jaggy, ps1 was even more jaggy. the xbox360 is consider perfect already not comparing a computer.
 
Want to try that again in English? :p

I think I know what you mean though. Just messing.

Anyways, I kinda figured AA for free was BS. This pretty much proves it.
 
Well, I fall under the "gameplay is much more important than graphics" category... but I must say. Microsoft has been promising everyone "free AA" and by the looks of it - there isn't very much AA going on. Whether these software companies will somehow "flick the switch" in the next week that they have to finish is yet to be seen. There have also been people complaining about lack of AA at the Walmart demo units, IGN Live, and X05.

Personally... if Microsoft promised something that they didn't deliver, I wouldn't be so hot about it - and probably wouldn't purchase it. (Windows Vista is also coming to mind)
 
Yeah, what happened to all the people claiming there would be anti-aliasing with no performance hit? If there's no performance hit why has it been apparently disabled, what would be the purpose behind that if the sole reason for these demo units to exist is to impress people with the visual quality?

There's a growing amount of evidence that suggests that the people who were firmly behind X360 when everybody was saying the screens were renders have, in fact, been had. But it's alright, I'm sure Circuitbreaker will be here shortly to link us to some more videos of Project Gotham, showing us beyond all doubt that because it looks good, one of the launch titles for the system will surely be the best racing game ever, and subsequently the system will be the best ever.

But since I'm on the topic, if PGR3 is one of the titles that they've gotten AA working on, and all of those renders (Er, I mean, screenshots) are real time, why isn't it one of the titles they're demoing? Why would they switch an amazing looking build of PGR3 for a god-awfully jaggied COD2?
 
I went to walmart and played some of the xbox 360 demos, there were jagged lines, but it had nice graphics, jagged lines isnt something that bothers me, but the screen they had sucked too so it was a combo of both.
 
finalgt said:
Yeah, what happened to all the people claiming there would be anti-aliasing with no performance hit? If there's no performance hit why has it been apparently disabled, what would be the purpose behind that if the sole reason for these demo units to exist is to impress people with the visual quality?

But since I'm on the topic, if PGR3 is one of the titles that they've gotten AA working on, and all of those renders (Er, I mean, screenshots) are real time, why isn't it one of the titles they're demoing? Why would they switch an amazing looking build of PGR3 for a god-awfully jaggied COD2?
Click to expand...

PGR3 isnt done yet COD2 is and so is Kameo for the most part. noAA has been explained away with that its the last thing that developers add. Its a month away and still noAA so its definately something to be concerned about, but hopefully it will be added before the release, if not then there is something seriously wrong.
 
No jaggies on a 480i tv...


BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

wow, now I heard it all
 
figgie said:
No jaggies on a 480i tv...


BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

wow, now I heard it all
Click to expand...

Just play it on a 10inc tv then u won't see them... that or play without glasses, or drink while playing or something, hehe.
 
My $400 will go towards PC and graphics cards unless the jaggies are dealt with. It is a promise microsoft made and didn't keep.

You need a high level of AA to make CG real-time images look good on a TV.

My last console was the original Nindendo. To sell a box to this house, they are going to have impress me, and so far I am NOT impressed.
 
Lets wait and judge later. Xbox360.ign.com has a interview by J Allard and he states that teh next wave of games to come out should look twice as better because they have had the entire development process with the DEV kits where as the games that are out now, the developers only had a short time to play with the dev kits. This is why you probably won't see AA implemented very well until after 6 months from launch. Lets give them time.
 
NumbLock said:
My $400 will go towards PC and graphics cards unless the jaggies are dealt with. It is a promise microsoft made and didn't keep.

You need a high level of AA to make CG real-time images look good on a TV.

My last console was the original Nindendo. To sell a box to this house, they are going to have impress me, and so far I am NOT impressed.
Click to expand...
well.....its not MS's fault if it was kept, but it is REQUIRED just like 720p....so mabey its gonna be a last minute thing for many dev
 
These new consoles will depends on

1. If your using some old CRT tv that cant handle hi res and ANYTHING will look like crap
2. if the Game developers program in AA into their games.
 
I think some people are forgetting the fact that... despite the X360 being released in a month, game developers need to have their games done much sooner than that if they want to make the launch.

I also think some of you who think non-HD CRT TVs make games look like crap, obviously haven't plugged their console into the component port of the TV, and are convinved that the only thing that makes a game look good is how high the resolution is. Incidentally, more than 90% of gamers have their consoles hooked into a circa-1980's 19" colour TV with RF switches, so this whole "720p" HD thing won't mean shit to most consumers for the next 4-5 years.
 
taking off your glasses = free antialiasing? lol

for sure id go for the xbox360 over a ps2 or xbox
 
BTW, the kiosks, are often set up improperly by imployees, often HD turned off,and badly calibrated TV's
 
Yes - nevermind the fact that Microsoft doesn't have the mass production of cables ready for HD, and likely won't for launch either. But this isn't just about the kiosks... the other events were properly setup, and showed very little AA.
 
The "Free 4x AA" part is solely due to the 10MB of EDRAM on the graphics chip. This is something that has NEVER been seen before on a graphics chip (besides maybe some uber leet rendering part). The first wave of games has not had much time to work with the dev kits containing the EDRAM yet, so it may be taking them a while to implement it correctly. It also may be that their engine was already put together and cant work properly with the EDRAM to provide the "Free 4x AA". The next wave of games has been working with the EDRAM from the beginning and *should* take full advantage of it...thus the "Free 4x AA".
 
that is true....the many devs(besides MAJOR ones,like epic and rare)havent had the beta kits for long,so that means they havent had THAT much time for optimization on the X360 gpu
 
NumbLock said:
My $400 will go towards PC and graphics cards unless the jaggies are dealt with. It is a promise microsoft made and didn't keep.

You need a high level of AA to make CG real-time images look good on a TV.

My last console was the original Nindendo. To sell a box to this house, they are going to have impress me, and so far I am NOT impressed.
Click to expand...


somehow you mised the memo


From XBOX 360 developers to President of Microsoft said:
Dear Mr Balmer.

we eliminated the Jagged edges on the software and hardware side but the NTSC TV currently in use by the majority of the US populace still induces jagged edges of it's own and no matter what we do, they will always be there. Can you give all the Xbox360 consumers a discount on some HDTV so we can completely eliminate the jaggies?

Thank

Xbox360 lead development team
Click to expand...

:p
 
my original xbox looks awesome on 720p and even 480p on my Panasonic PTL-500U projector. I don't think there's much to worry about using the xbox360...and you folk who say the graphics look like crap? Have you watched ingame footage of NBA2006 or whatever. the one where the clothing moves, and sweat looks real? The elbows and joints still look screwy but they are using photo textures and it looks absolutely outstanding. My buddy and I have been PC gamers since the early 90's and I've never seen any computer/console gameplay look so sharp as the 720p video I downloaded of that new Xbox360 basketball game ---- And I HATE sport games....that video just impressed the heck out of me.
 
All the movies in the world of 360's in action are meaningless for determining the effectiveness of AA on the 360 unless you know whether the game was being played at 720p or above..... Because even with 4xAA anything running at 480p or below will be pretty damn jaggy.
 
The in-game play of that basketball game looks quite different from those screens/videos that you saw. Anyone want to comment more on any jaggies present at X05 or IGN Live, when the system WAS running in HD on HD screens?
 
well....if your gonna get your period over it......when your at walmart and you see jaggies,ask a employee to eject the tray so you can change the resolution settings.....considering MOST employees are to retarded to think of that,they just assemble it......thats there job
 
AA isn't "free" because it uses up the same processing power that HDR is used for. That's why in some games they just use motion blur to look like AA even though it really isn't.
'
 
There are many things that can cause AA. Improperly assembled kiosks. Improperly set-up options. Unfinished software.

Really guys, you're grasping. Jags weren't even much of a problem on the Xbox...do you honestly think that the next-generation is just going to take a complete leap backwards in graphical technology? Get real.

steviep said:
Yes - nevermind the fact that Microsoft doesn't have the mass production of cables ready for HD, and likely won't for launch either. But this isn't just about the kiosks... the other events were properly setup, and showed very little AA.
Click to expand...

...so, steviep is bashing a console that isn't made by Nintendo?! Who would have expected that :rolleyes:

I'm surprised that a Nintendo fan would be so hung up on paltry things like AA anyways. Aren't you the ones who are always citing the importance of software because Nintendo is constantly behind in the technological aspect of gaming?
 
Ballz2TheWallz said:
well....if your gonna get your period over it......when your at walmart and you see jaggies,ask a employee to eject the tray so you can change the resolution settings.....considering MOST employees are to retarded to think of that,they just assemble it......thats there job
Click to expand...

i played COD2 and kameo at two eb games, and they both had the same jaggy-ness.. wouldnt an eb games employee know about this (meaning, how to change resolution, and how to set it up properly)?
 
Bottom line, final XBOX 360 software needs to have 720p w/ 2x MSAA enabled minimum for Microsoft to allow the game to be put on the shelf. Pre-release demos and whatnot may not have this enabled yet.
 
kevin1211 said:
i played COD2 and kameo at two eb games, and they both had the same jaggy-ness.. wouldnt an eb games employee know about this (meaning, how to change resolution, and how to set it up properly)?
Click to expand...

...most employees at gaming stores (Including EB) know nothing about the specifics of gaming. They'll pick up a few catch phrases and one-liners from the engine (Emotion Engine, Cell, Xenon technology) but they wouldn't be able to back up specifics.
 
Dark, c'mon man, give it up. You obviously didn't read what I posted earlier. Just because I enjoy Nintendo consoles, doesn't mean I can't enjoy any of the others - as I certainly can. But here, why don't you read my opinion again:

Well, I fall under the "gameplay is much more important than graphics" category... but I must say. Microsoft has been promising everyone "free AA" and by the looks of it - there isn't very much AA going on. Whether these software companies will somehow "flick the switch" in the next week that they have to finish is yet to be seen.
Click to expand...

Honestly... if someone told me to expect something and they didn't deliver, I would be very disappointed. The X05 screens and IGN Live WERE setup properly, and showed lack of AA in many cases, so people SHOULD be concerned about the near-final or even final state of the software. This isn't Nintendo vs Microsoft, this is Microsoft vs consumer.
 
LOL, why are some of you stating that the ones in gamestop are pre release xboxs and "oh its still a month away from release"

i think some of you are forgetting that over a month ago, videos from the factories came out, showing the assembly and packaging of the x360. the xbox 360 is DONE, its been completed for a while.

The only thing i can think of that can fix some of these problem is via the internet. Perhaps drivers/firmware updates?

I saw call of duty 2 and king kong at two different gamestop locations, and one location looked much better than the other. however on the better one, CoD 2 still isnt next gen. so many people game by and some couldnt notice the difference (vs. original xbox)

i saw jaggys, even on Kameo.

I wish they had a PGR3 playable demo on the kiosks. that would have truly shown the difference from last gen to new gen graphics.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top