x850 pro vs 6800GS

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FlamingBee

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I'm sorry to create another of these threads, however I need some advice on a future video card. I'm looking for an upgrade to my current system (see below) to last me untill i go to university (about a year and a half). Being bound by an AGP slot has severely limited my options, however I still think a purchase of a new card will tide me over for a while. My current system is:

Athlon XP 3000+
Radeon 9800pro 128mb
2x512 MB Ram
MSI K7N2-Delta ILSR

I have found two graphics card that fit into my price range (<£180):

6800GS (cheapest i've found is £150)
X850 pro (cheapest = £160)

Which of these two would you advise would give me the best performance and Image quality, and, more importantly, last longest before requiring and upgrade (consider my whole system)? Also, the radeon range has a large number of cards with very similar names which are confusing me greatly (x800XL, x850 pro, X850XT). I've been looking for simple comparisons and buying advice between these cards, however it is rather hard to come by considering the difference in dates of release of the cards. Can someone offer some advice on which of these are best and the Nvidia parts that they compete against. Thanks in advance.
 
X850PRO ands down. And since you can flash it to X850XT PE. :D
 
Altec, would you be able to quantify that statement with a reason? Does it perform faster? Also, assume that the x850Pro can't be unlocked to the x850XT, (a customer review of the card im looking at buying suggested that there was little to no luck with unlocking of this particular brand. However, looking at it, it seems to be a VIVO one, which should technically be unlockable, but i need to base my purchase on the worst-comes-to-worse scenario).
 
FlamingBee said:
Altec, would you be able to quantify that statement with a reason? Does it perform faster? Also, assume that the x850Pro can't be unlocked to the x850XT, (a customer review of the card im looking at buying suggested that there was little to no luck with unlocking of this particular brand. However, looking at it, it seems to be a VIVO one, which should technically be unlockable, but i need to base my purchase on the worst-comes-to-worse scenario).
Click to expand...

Hows this for quantifacation...
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=58&card2=368

The x850 slaughters it..
I wouldnt invest too much into unlocking it.. its not a very good turnover rate, but mine overclocks like a dream and stock kicks the hell out of the 6800gs.
 
Hmmm, the x850pro does seem to have better fill rates than the 6800GS, and does appear to be faster overall. Does this translate into real-life performance gains in games? Also what about Pixel Shader 2 vs P.S 3? I've heard this translates to very little in real life, is this true? Would the benefits of the x850pro outweigh the loss of P.S 3 (im inclined, from what i've read, to say yes, but some clarification would be much appreciated). Thanks for all the help thus far guys.
 
The 6800gs has 12 pipelines that can be easily unlocked to 16... the price tag is lower and people oc it very well. I see a lot going to 430/1170.... witht he nv5. It does run a little hot with the stock cooler but the price difference between the 2 cards will allow yout o buy a new cooler and oc the heck out of it.

Also the x800gto 2 is damn sweet and at a sweet price tag. It outperforms the 6800gs after unlocking to 16 pipelines and overclocking it.
 
Thetwizler24 said:
The 6800gs has 12 pipelines that can be easily unlocked to 16... the price tag is lower and people oc it very well. I see a lot going to 430/1170.... witht he nv5. It does run a little hot with the stock cooler but the price difference between the 2 cards will allow yout o buy a new cooler and oc the heck out of it.

Also the x800gto 2 is damn sweet and at a sweet price tag. It outperforms the 6800gs after unlocking to 16 pipelines and overclocking it.
Click to expand...

ok youre the second person to say you can unlock a GS

how exactly do you do it?

Ive been hearing from all over that is only manufactured with 12 pipelines and that there is nothing to unlock
 
Well, looking around i can't find any AGP Sapphire x800GTO2 cards to buy in the UK (if you've got a site then please let me know). Is the success rate on those 100%? I've been hearing that it is close to that, but im not terribly sure. Also how successful are the unlocks on the 6800GS? I've heard from a lot of places that its not really that reliable and may not even be possible.
 
Druneau said:
Even tough it may be unimportant, the 6800GS supports SM3.
Click to expand...

But by the time a game comes out that truely utilizes sm3, the 6800gs will be a lowend card anyways. (its already a mid/low solution right now..)
 
FlamingBee said:
Well, looking around i can't find any AGP Sapphire x800GTO2 cards to buy in the UK (if you've got a site then please let me know). Is the success rate on those 100%? I've been hearing that it is close to that, but im not terribly sure. Also how successful are the unlocks on the 6800GS? I've heard from a lot of places that its not really that reliable and may not even be possible.
Click to expand...

Its like any unlock... you dont know if it will unlock until you acutally do it.
I know the GS pci-e has a very very very low success rate, but have heard OK things about the AGP version. IMHO, you should NEVER invest too much thought into unlocking a card or purchasing a card because of its ability to unlock. You will get what you pay for.. if it unlocks, its an added bonus to your purchase, if not.. well, like I said, you get what you payed for.
 
lloose said:
You will get what you pay for.. if it unlocks, its an added bonus to your purchase, if not.. well, like I said, you get what you payed for.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly the way i feel about it (as i stated before im going on a worse-comes-to-worst scenario that it doesn't unlock), which is why i am steering away from unlocking and going for the best card on its own. So far it seems that the x850pro is winning the fight, although as yet no one has delivered the finishing blow. Whatever i end up getting i cant wait to order it :). Thanks a lot for the help so far everyone, and keep it coming!
 
osalcido said:
ok youre the second person to say you can unlock a GS

how exactly do you do it?

Ive been hearing from all over that is only manufactured with 12 pipelines and that there is nothing to unlock
Click to expand...

The 6800GS AGP is unlockable (first hand experience) because it is the NV40 core, which has 16 pipes, but they hardware mask 4 and sell it as 12... where as the PCI-e 6800GS is the NV42 core and is only manufactured with 12 pipes. I absolutley love my 6800GS as it performs dead on a 6800GT, no flashing involved, just simply using RivaTuner to unlock the hardware masking that the company puts on the card.

But be warned, its the luck of the draw with the pipes to unlock, my first try with an XFX was a disappointment as the extra 4 pipes were corrupt. You stand a better chance of an uncorrupt core with an "OC" version of a card as those are the cores that are a little more "choosie" when it comes time to manufacture.

So really you take a risk with either card doing what you want... whether you get the x850 pro to flash, or you get the 6800GS AGP with all 16 pipes in tact.

My 6800GS is in my LAN rig on the right side of my sig.
 
(is this final blow?)

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=58&card2=202

The 6800GS MAY be able to unlock the extra pipes and be the same speed as a GT, the stock x850pro is STILL faster than that (dispite having less pipes). So basicly, if you get a 6800gs, manage to unlock it, manage to get a stable overclock on it to GT speeds.... its STILL slower than the STOCK x850pro..


Imagine what kind of value you could get out of your x850pro if you can successfully unlock it to XTPE? (16 pipes, higher clocks etc).
 
lloose said:
(is this final blow?)

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=58&card2=202
Click to expand...

Not really. They are only fill rate numbers, rather than an actual head-to-head game comparison of the two cards. I'm still leaning in favour of the x850pro myself, but some people seem to be strongly in favour of the 6800GS as well, which is all kind of confusing. No one has really benchmarked x850pro's against 6800GS on the 'net since the two card were released with a big time difference
 
lloose said:
(is this final blow?)

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=58&card2=202

The 6800GS MAY be able to unlock the extra pipes and be the same speed as a GT, the stock x850pro is STILL faster than that (dispite having less pipes). So basicly, if you get a 6800gs, manage to unlock it, manage to get a stable overclock on it to GT speeds.... its STILL slower than the STOCK x850pro..


Imagine what kind of value you could get out of your x850pro if you can successfully unlock it to XTPE? (16 pipes, higher clocks etc).
Click to expand...

Why are you quoting core speeds on two different core architectures... that point has no hold whatsoever...

Look at the benchmarks on similar systems if you want a better comparison.


It already comes clocked at GT speeds stock... I was able to overclock mine to 6800Ultra speeds and beyond...

Its all in the risk he wants to take. Hell, my 6800GS is right there with the given 3dmark05 score from your link for the x850XT...

But there is less of a risk in unlocking the GS than there is in flashing the x850.
If the pipes are corrupt on the GS, just relock them... If the x850 doesnt flash, you're in for a fun time getting it flashed back to the x850pro bios.
 
FlamingBee said:
Not really. They are only fill rate numbers, rather than an actual head-to-head game comparison of the two cards. I'm still leaning in favour of the x850pro myself, but some people seem to be strongly in favour of the 6800GS as well, which is all kind of confusing. No one has really benchmarked x850pro's against 6800GS on the 'net since the two card were released with a big time difference
Click to expand...

Heres a general benchmark.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/07/05/vga_charts_vii/page4.html

The x850pro is going to be between the x800xl and x800pro
The 6800gs is going to be between the 6800 and 6800gt

Overclocking the GS will bump it up to where the 6800GT is.. still well below the x850's stock.


Why are you quoting core speeds on two different core architectures... that point has no hold whatsoever...

Look at the benchmarks on similar systems if you want a better comparison.


It already comes clocked at GT speeds stock... I was able to overclock mine to 6800Ultra speeds and beyond...

Its all in the risk he wants to take. Hell, my 6800GS is right there with the given 3dmark05 score from your link for the x850XT...

But there is less of a risk in unlocking the GS than there is in flashing the x850.
If the pipes are corrupt on the GS, just relock them... If the x850 doesnt flash, you're in for a fun time getting it flashed back to the x850pro bios.
Click to expand...

Im not just looking at the clock speeds.. look a the.. well..look at every single number on there.. they are all higher for the x850pro.

P.s. I have mine overclocked and unlocked to x850xtpe... I had a lot of trouble doing it, but I managed to find a method.
 
Right after listening to all the advice and reading reviews of similar cards on the net, it seems like the x850pro is the card for me, since it is slightly faster at stock and not much more expensive (it is also a fairly reputable make). Even though it's not likely to unlock, im not going to risk going for another card which still has a very low chance of unlocking. Thanks for all your input everyone, it is very much appreciated.
 
Your welcome :)

What are you going to do with your 9800pro? If you want to sell it, send me a price and I will take it off your hands for a lan rig im building.
 
The AGP 6800GS is slower than PCIE one. Lets not get confused people.
But anyway, If 6800GS AGP is cheaper, I'd get it. SM3 is always nice.
 
Thetwizler24 said:
The 6800gs has 12 pipelines that can be easily unlocked to 16... the price tag is lower and people oc it very well. I see a lot going to 430/1170.... witht he nv5. It does run a little hot with the stock cooler but the price difference between the 2 cards will allow yout o buy a new cooler and oc the heck out of it.

Also the x800gto 2 is damn sweet and at a sweet price tag. It outperforms the 6800gs after unlocking to 16 pipelines and overclocking it.
Click to expand...

Umm I don't know where you are coming from, but the 6800GS is based on a 12 core pipeline that can't be unlocked unless somehow a manufacturer uses an old 6800GT core, OC's it, and locks pipes.
 
Myrandex said:
Umm I don't know where you are coming from, but the 6800GS is based on a 12 core pipeline that can't be unlocked unless somehow a manufacturer uses an old 6800GT core, OC's it, and locks pipes.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what a 6800GS AGP is... its an NV40 core... and yes it unlocks.
 
I'd like to take a moment to point out that the BFG 6800 GS AGP ships with all 16 pipelines unlocked...

And core clocks and fillrate numbers aren't everything...keep in mind that the 6800 Ultra can run toe-to-toe with an x800 xt pe which has 25% more fillrate than an x850 pro since it has 16 pipelines...and a 6800 Ultra is only 50Mhz faster than a 6800 GS (with all 16 pipes)

Personally I would go with the GS, the 6800s are just a better architecture...

The only way I would go with the x850pro is if I was confident it would unlock and was willing to void my warranty to do so.
 
Actually, BFG's 6800GS doesn't ship with all 16 pipes unlocked, it was a typo by Newegg.
 
aznpxdd said:
Actually, BFG's 6800GS doesn't ship with all 16 pipes unlocked, it was a typo by Newegg.
Click to expand...

I didn't see it on newegg, I heard they shipped with 16 pipes and all 6 vertex pipes enabled so I checked their website:

http://www.bfgtech.com/6800GSOC.html

Note the spec they give is 555 Million Vertices/sec...which corresponds to all 6 Vertex pipes being unlocked at 370Mhz...

But I suppose that may very well be a typo too...
 
^eMpTy^ said:
I didn't see it on newegg, I heard they shipped with 16 pipes and all 6 vertex pipes enabled so I checked their website:

http://www.bfgtech.com/6800GSOC.html

Note the spec they give is 555 Million Vertices/sec...which corresponds to all 6 Vertex pipes being unlocked at 370Mhz...

But I suppose that may very well be a typo too...
Click to expand...


It does not ship with all 16 pipes unlocked... I had to unlock mine.
 
You may want to look at each card's construction, especially on the back. The ATI Radeon x850 Pro has a very thin strip holding the front side HSF onto the card. The 6800 GS has a much more robust retangular looking plate holding the front side HSF, which also serves as an additional heatsink. Also, the BFG variety 6800 has a lifetime warranty! Also, you have SM 3.0 with the 6800 - something that may play out to be a real advantange in the long run. So, I would say, go with the X850 Pro for the short term, the 6800 GS for the long run. I've had both and IMHO the nvidia driver system is more rationally layed out and easier to navigate. Also, as already mentioned in the posts, the GS is much easier to unlock!
 
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