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X800 pro vs x1650 pro ?

C

[CaM]Spoon

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 3, 2005
Messages
233
Hi guys.
My computer is 2 years old now and well we all know that gameing computers pretty much are junk after 2 years. SO its time for an upgrade but since money is tight right now i was looking to only upgrade my video card this time to give it a little kick to keep it alive for another year or so.

Anyway i have a x800pro right now which is really showing its age. Im still on AGP so wanna get a AGP card. I noticed that ATI is releasing the x1650 pro on AGP. Just wondering what performance gain am i looking at when playing halflife 2?
 
Never, ever invest in an x16xx anything. Trust me, I have an X1600pro, and the difference between the 1600 and 1650 are marginal at best. These cards are crap.
 
listen to the guy above me, it would be different if you had a 9600 or something, than i would recommend for the price.
 
digital_exhaust said:
Never, ever invest in an x16xx anything. Trust me, I have an X1600pro, and the difference between the 1600 and 1650 are marginal at best. These cards are crap.
Click to expand...

Amen to that...
They perform WORSE then 3yr old x800 series cards!!!! How's that for a joke... :rolleyes:
I did see somewhere that x1950pro will be available in AGP too... That would definitelly be a kick-ass upgrade, but you'll most likely have to pay a premium just because it's AGP... :(

Mike
 
There was an article floating around another post that the X1950 is going to be available on AGP but its going to be a bit pricey.
 
any X16xx or X6xx, 96xx cards are just for people that play CS and play chess online.

These are not enthusiast cards. 128bit memory bus means BAD performance, no matter what. 256bit memory or bust.

~Adam
 
Get a 7600GS instead, though your X800 would probably be equal in performance to it.
 
[CaM]Spoon said:
Hi guys.
My computer is 2 years old now and well we all know that gameing computers pretty much are junk after 2 years. SO its time for an upgrade but since money is tight right now i was looking to only upgrade my video card this time to give it a little kick to keep it alive for another year or so.

Anyway i have a x800pro right now which is really showing its age. Im still on AGP so wanna get a AGP card. I noticed that ATI is releasing the x1650 pro on AGP. Just wondering what performance gain am i looking at when playing halflife 2?
Click to expand...
X800 Pro is significantly faster than X1650 Pro, so definitely avoid that. 7600 GT would be a good upgrade feature-wise, and will be faster than the X800 Pro, but the difference will not be enough to make you saw "Wow!" The X1950 Pro should be a pretty huge difference, though, so watch out for that one. It will probably cost about $300, however, so it might make more sense to just hang onto what you have until you can upgrade the whole system to a PCI-E one.
 
There is no small amount of misinformation in this thread.

In short, the X1650 Pro *is* faster than the X800 Pro...although not by that much. It's DEFINITELY not slower.

3dMark05 scores of ~5300 (X1650 Pro) vs ~4900 (X800 Pro). That's getting close to a 10% improvement, which is right about the threshold of values you "notice".

Additionally, the X1K cards come with ATI's AVIVO technology, which improves DVD playback noticeably.

Finally, the card consumes SUBSTANTIALLY less power (no external power connector needed, even in the AGP flavor), and is quite a bit more quiet.

That said...it really isn't THAT much faster. If you can hold out for (and afford) the X1950Pro in AGP, that would clearly be a better card.
 
Thanks.

My computer specs are
Shuttle sng95 barebone Love these little things!
athlon 3500
1 gig ram
radeon x800 pro
74 raptor harddrive

im happpy with it since i think 3500 is still good. Dont wanna spend another grand on a full computer upgrade so just wanna speed it up. the 1950 looks nice but 400 price tag.... i dont know. Dont like spending over 300-350 CDN. dollers on ANY computer part.
 
Personally if I were you i'd hold out and save up. I had a P4 3.0 with a X700pro AGP it wasn't a great system, it ran games good. Once Oblivion came out and I got it installed i knew it was time to upgrade. So I finally got my new system going now. I think waiting and getting a PCI-E system would be benificial considering its going to be here for a long time. The X800pro is really one of the upper cards in performance for AGP I agree with others the 1600 isn't worth spending the money on.
 
Ah that sucks.
Games i play are CS:S and waiting for call of duty 3 or brothers in arms 3. Brothers in arms looks like you need a heavy duty computer and theres no way im playing the game at settings at low.
It also sucks that computers as they age they get slower. I played the same game for 2 years and its performance dropped. ah well.

New computer here i come.
 
[CaM]Spoon said:
It also sucks that computers as they age they get slower. I played the same game for 2 years and its performance dropped. ah well.
Click to expand...

That's likely spyware or something dragging you down. Fragmented disk, overheating, etc.

Trust me, if you keep your computer clean and well maintained, it DEFINITELY does not "slow down". Granted, newer games will be harder and harder to play as time goes by, but "the same game for 2 years" should absolutely play the exact same 5 years later as it did the day you bought the PC.

I mean, really, do you think businesses around the world replace every PC in every office every 2 years? Hardly! Corporate IT departments are just much more aggressive about keeping it "clean".
 
dderidex said:
There is no small amount of misinformation in this thread.

In short, the X1650 Pro *is* faster than the X800 Pro...although not by that much. It's DEFINITELY not slower.

3dMark05 scores of ~5300 (X1650 Pro) vs ~4900 (X800 Pro). That's getting close to a 10% improvement, which is right about the threshold of values you "notice".

Additionally, the X1K cards come with ATI's AVIVO technology, which improves DVD playback noticeably.

Finally, the card consumes SUBSTANTIALLY less power (no external power connector needed, even in the AGP flavor), and is quite a bit more quiet.

That said...it really isn't THAT much faster. If you can hold out for (and afford) the X1950Pro in AGP, that would clearly be a better card.
Click to expand...

That isn't true. Tom's Hardware has a nice VGA chart that allows you to pick two cards to compare against each other. They don't have an X800 Pro, so I picked the X800GTO, which is slower than an X800 Pro, and compared it to the X1650 Pro. There were many instances where the GTO was in fact faster. In the areas where the 1650 Pro was slightly faster (4-7 fps) the higher core/RAM clocks of the X800 Pro would cover for that. So ultimately the X1650 Pro would be slower overall, under most conditions.

However, I do agree with the rest of your assesment about the 1650 Pro card.
 
Varmint said:
Your x800 pro blows away both cards in Oblivion.
Click to expand...

You have an "odd" definition of "blows away". (Note the 'Gate' test - the hardest test)

That shows the X800 Pro *barely* eaking by the X1600XT. Remember that the X1650Pro is the same *chip* as the X1600XT, just with faster core and faster memory, and that this test has a margin of error of +-1 FPS.

And, as soon as you get into a dungeon (see the 'dungeon test'), the X1650 Pro would pull ahead outright.

IE, the X1650Pro and X800Pro are exactly dead-even in 'Oblivion'. (I certainly hope you aren't confusing the X1650Pro with the MUCH slower X1600Pro, right?)

Oh, with bloom enabled. See, the X800Pro CAN'T enable HDR in 'Oblivion', while the X1650Pro can. I actually ran 'Oblivion' on an X1600XT with 4xAA and HDR at 800x600, and it looked and played fantastic. (It was actually much faster at 800x600 with 4xAA than it was at 1280x1024 with 0xAA...and it looked much better at those settings, too).
 
dderidex said:
You have an "odd" definition of "blows away". (Note the 'Gate' test - the hardest test)

That shows the X800 Pro *barely* eaking by the X1600XT. Remember that the X1650Pro is the same *chip* as the X1600XT, just with faster core and faster memory, and that this test has a margin of error of +-1 FPS.

And, as soon as you get into a dungeon (see the 'dungeon test'), the X1650 Pro would pull ahead outright.

IE, the X1650Pro and X800Pro are exactly dead-even in 'Oblivion'. (I certainly hope you aren't confusing the X1650Pro with the MUCH slower X1600Pro, right?)

Oh, with bloom enabled. See, the X800Pro CAN'T enable HDR in 'Oblivion', while the X1650Pro can. I actually ran 'Oblivion' on an X1600XT with 4xAA and HDR at 800x600, and it looked and played fantastic. (It was actually much faster at 800x600 with 4xAA than it was at 1280x1024 with 0xAA...and it looked much better at those settings, too).
Click to expand...


Ok, even if they're equivalent, still no reason for him to upgrade.
 
Varmint said:
x800 pro is definitely faster than the x1650pro in some games. Nor will the 7600GS be much faster. Your x800 pro blows away both cards in Oblivion.

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/Oblivion/oblivion-midrange-bloom.png

The only thing worth upgrading to would be the x1950pro, which comes out in 2 weeks at $200 (hopefully).
Click to expand...
I agree about the card choice, but you're dreaming if you think the AGP X1950 Pro will be $200. If it's under $300 within the first two weeks of release, I'll be amazed.
 
arthur_tuxedo said:
I agree about the card choice, but you're dreaming if you think the AGP X1950 Pro will be $200. If it's under $300 within the first two weeks of release, I'll be amazed.
Click to expand...

Agreed. QFT.
 
arthur_tuxedo said:
I agree about the card choice, but you're dreaming if you think the AGP X1950 Pro will be $200. If it's under $300 within the first two weeks of release, I'll be amazed.
Click to expand...

People said the same thing about the PCI-E version, whining about how it was $300. Four days later it was $165.

It's simple supply & demand - AGP owners won't pay $300 for a card, so the price will drop quickly.
 
Varmint said:
People said the same thing about the PCI-E version, whining about how it was $300. Four days later it was $165.

It's simple supply & demand - AGP owners won't pay $300 for a card, so the price will drop quickly.
Click to expand...
The situations seem similar, but they're not.

The PCI-E version is being made in high quantities. There were only a limited number at first while they ramped up. Retailers took advantage of the fact that they only had to hoodwink a few idiots to sell through their limited stock and jacked up the price, knowing that some people would see the 1950 part of the name and think it was faster than an X1900 XT (this is the fault of ATI's marketing department).

The AGP version will be made in much more limited quantities. When you build a card, you have to tool the machines to make that card, design the boxes, etc. Those are fixed costs. If you make a lot of cards, those fixed costs are a comparatively smaller piece of the pie. But if you only make a limited number, it can really drive up the cost of each card. Higher cost = higher price. That's why the AGP 7600 GT costs more than the PCI-E version, the 7800 GS costs so much, and why this card will cost substantially more than the PCI-E version. You can tell yourself it will be $200 within a few weeks of release, but you'll only be setting yourself up for disappointment.
 
arthur_tuxedo said:
The situations seem similar, but they're not.

The PCI-E version is being made in high quantities. There were only a limited number at first while they ramped up. Retailers took advantage of the fact that they only had to hoodwink a few idiots to sell through their limited stock and jacked up the price, knowing that some people would see the 1950 part of the name and think it was faster than an X1900 XT (this is the fault of ATI's marketing department).

The AGP version will be made in much more limited quantities. When you build a card, you have to tool the machines to make that card, design the boxes, etc. Those are fixed costs. If you make a lot of cards, those fixed costs are a comparatively smaller piece of the pie. But if you only make a limited number, it can really drive up the cost of each card. Higher cost = higher price. That's why the AGP 7600 GT costs more than the PCI-E version, the 7800 GS costs so much, and why this card will cost substantially more than the PCI-E version. You can tell yourself it will be $200 within a few weeks of release, but you'll only be setting yourself up for disappointment.
Click to expand...


Another QFT, that's two in one post, almost unheard of.

QFT.
 
dderidex said:
There is no small amount of misinformation in this thread.

In short, the X1650 Pro *is* faster than the X800 Pro...although not by that much. It's DEFINITELY not slower.

3dMark05 scores of ~5300 (X1650 Pro) vs ~4900 (X800 Pro). That's getting close to a 10% improvement, which is right about the threshold of values you "notice".

Additionally, the X1K cards come with ATI's AVIVO technology, which improves DVD playback noticeably.

Finally, the card consumes SUBSTANTIALLY less power (no external power connector needed, even in the AGP flavor), and is quite a bit more quiet.

That said...it really isn't THAT much faster. If you can hold out for (and afford) the X1950Pro in AGP, that would clearly be a better card.
Click to expand...

My X800 Pro gets 5511 in 3dmark05.
 
dderidex said:
And my X1600XT got 5750 in 3dMark05.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
Click to expand...

Didn't you hear? it effects it dramatically, they base their tea prices off of 3DMark scores as if it were the stock market, it's quite rediculous and probably why they are still a 3rd world country.
 
dderidex said:
And my X1600XT got 5750 in 3dMark05.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
Click to expand...

A X1600XT isn't an X1650 Pro.

and my X800 Pro gets a better score than this supposedly superior 1650 Pro.

You said 4900. My card could do 5900 if I actually gave enough of a shit to obsess over it.

Anyway the point is moot. The difference between the cards is so little as to be insignifigant. He shouldn't bother 'upgrading' or 'downgrading' or 'sidegrading' or whatever you call going from an x800 pro to a x1650 pro
 
arthur_tuxedo said:
The situations seem similar, but they're not.

The PCI-E version is being made in high quantities. There were only a limited number at first while they ramped up. Retailers took advantage of the fact that they only had to hoodwink a few idiots to sell through their limited stock and jacked up the price, knowing that some people would see the 1950 part of the name and think it was faster than an X1900 XT (this is the fault of ATI's marketing department).

The AGP version will be made in much more limited quantities. When you build a card, you have to tool the machines to make that card, design the boxes, etc. Those are fixed costs. If you make a lot of cards, those fixed costs are a comparatively smaller piece of the pie. But if you only make a limited number, it can really drive up the cost of each card. Higher cost = higher price. That's why the AGP 7600 GT costs more than the PCI-E version, the 7800 GS costs so much, and why this card will cost substantially more than the PCI-E version. You can tell yourself it will be $200 within a few weeks of release, but you'll only be setting yourself up for disappointment.
Click to expand...

The card's suggested MSRP is $250 - for it to be higher than that means demand outreaches supply. That's not gonna happen. It'll sell for $250 as soon as initial demand drops off.

The situation is similar in that the same people claimed the x1950 PCI-E was gonna be way higher than MSRP too, using the same logic. They were wrong.
 
Card makers seem pretty reluctant to make large quantities of AGP cards. AGP 7600 GT has been constantly out of stock everywhere since the day it came out. 7800 GS has been much easier to find, but that's because it's not a great deal for the money.

I speculate that they don't produce enough AGP cards because they want to make money on the AGP parts, but don't want to sabotage the transition to PCI-E, so they don't make enough to fill demand. If they did fill demand, mobo makers might respond by releasing a few modern AGP motherboards, and then it would guarantee another generation of high-end AGP cards. Faster transition to PCI-E means more profit in the long run.

I expect the AGP X1950 Pro to sell for $300-$350 for a few weeks, where it will be constantly out of stock. Then it will settle into the high $200's and drop gradually toward the $250 it should have cost all along. Perhaps by Christmas you will be able to get one for around $250 (which is when I intend to pick one up).
 
nigerian_businessman said:
A X1600XT isn't an X1650 Pro.
Click to expand...
No, as I pointed out earlier, an X1650 Pro is the exact same chip as the X1600XT, just with better yields (it's clocked higher) and with better memory (again, clocked higher).

nigerian_businessman said:
and my X800 Pro gets a better score than this supposedly superior 1650 Pro.
Click to expand...

You must be missing the point of an 'equal comparison'. The numbers I gave would be from the 'same system'. You can't compare two different cards in two different systems with two different installs of Windows and call it a valid comparison. In a system where an X800Pro scores 4900, an X1600XT would score 5300.

Anyway the point is moot. The difference between the cards is so little as to be insignifigant. He shouldn't bother 'upgrading' or 'downgrading' or 'sidegrading' or whatever you call going from an x800 pro to a x1650 pro
Click to expand...

Depends on:

A) The price
B) Whether he wants those features or not. HDR and AVIVO are both pretty spiffy additions to the product.
 
Just to add my experience. The X1650Pro and X800PRO are about the same speed overall. When resolutions start to rise or when enableing AA or AF then the X800's 256bit memory bus starts to pull ahead. Sometimes significantly. The 1650 has SM 3.0 and can do HDR it also has lower power consumption, those are its only strong points if choosing between the two.
I tried both in my HTPC and went with the 1650 as the image quality throught the component outputs was significantly better.

If i had an x800 pro- i would not spend anything to get an x1650pro (i had both and chose between them based on the system use).
 
Don't forget that Sapphire just released the X1300XT OC edition which is priced lower than both the X1600/X1650 Series and X800 Series video cards. Best of all, the new X1300XT OC holds it own against it's bigger brothers which basicaly makes the lower end X800 line and the X1600/X1650 line obsolete!


techPowerUp.com said:
When you think "X1300 XT" you would expect just a small performance increase compared to the X1300 Pro since the marketing names are so close. What ATI did however, is give you X1600 performance for X1300 price. The performance difference to the X1300 is pretty amazing, and the performance difference to the X1600 is so small that there is not really a reason to spend more money for the X1600.

Compared to NVIDIA's a bit less expensive 7300 GT, the card is definitely faster, the difference is big enough to be noticed not only in benchmark number but actual gameplay.
Click to expand...

This card is also faster than a 6600GT, 6800GS, 7300 Series and the 7600GS video cards!

Have a look here for a nice review.
 
mhouston said:
The X1600s can also Fold, where the X800's can't.
Click to expand...

AFAIK, only X19xx can fold, or rather cards based on the R580 can fold. I don't think X16xx fits in that category...
 
Varmint said:
The card's suggested MSRP is $250 - for it to be higher than that means demand outreaches supply. That's not gonna happen. It'll sell for $250 as soon as initial demand drops off.

The situation is similar in that the same people claimed the x1950 PCI-E was gonna be way higher than MSRP too, using the same logic. They were wrong.
Click to expand...

I don't remember anyone claiming it was going to be higher. I remember people complaining (myself included) that the reviews were misleading, in the sense that the supposed price at launch ($199) was not real. Plus, the availability of the card was very bad. It seems it settled now, but at the time and for about two weeks, there were almost no cards available and the price was way over the MSRP.
 
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