X1900XTX has 48 pipes??

no, it has 16 real pipes but like 3 shader somethings per pipe equalling 48. I dont remember all the specifics...
 
Yes, it does indeed have 48 pipes, I believe. However, the number of pipes a card has isn't an indicator of performance. I wouldn't necessarily say that a X1900XT is 4x better than an X1600XT, but it is a good deal better.

edit: Just saw you said X1600PRO... yeah, that's not a very good card...
 
PWMK2 said:
Yes, it does indeed have 48 pipes, I believe. However, the number of pipes a card has isn't an indicator of performance. I wouldn't necessarily say that a X1900XT is 4x better than an X1600XT, but it is a good deal better.
Click to expand...

Ok, so maybe not 4 times BETTER, but 4 times as many
 
It doesn't have 48 real pipes, maybe Brent or someone can come out here and "edumacate" us. I've read the explanation of it several times but fail to remember it.
 
they should have said the R580 has 16 pixel pipes, 48 fragment shaders vs. R520's 16 pixel pipes and 16 fragment shaders.........because we all know the pixel pipes make the largest difference

here is a good article, i dont understand it all, but it may help you understand it better

http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/r580/int/

also see these links

R520 (x1800)
http://www.beyond3d.com/misc/chipco...id=95&orderby=release_date&order=Order&cname=

R580 (x1900)
http://www.beyond3d.com/misc/chipco...d=105&orderby=release_date&order=Order&cname=
 
Budwise said:
no, it has 16 real pipes but like 3 shader somethings per pipe equalling 48. I dont remember all the specifics...
Click to expand...

Yep. 16 pixel pipelines with 3 ALU's or shader processors per pipeline. That's where the extra performance comes from. I believe that's why in older games that are not shader heavy don't benefit much if at all from it. There are also more things coming into play, but that's a different path :).

There was a simple article at anantech that that helped explain it a little.
 
lol, they have review which explains whats important in details and the relevancy of the pixel shaders and pipelines etc..

FRONT PAGE GUYS, lol
 
dwilson041781 said:
lol, they have review which explains whats important in details and the relevancy of the pixel shaders and pipelines etc..

FRONT PAGE GUYS, lol
Click to expand...

ahh, yes, havent viewed the front page lately.....thats a good article too :)
 
But realistically, the shader pipelines are getting to be more and more important, and the pixel pipelines are becoming less so. Sure, for older games... but then, show me an older game that doesn't have shaders that won't run full speed with max graphics on 16 pixel pipelines anyway.

ATI is futureproofing to a certain extent. I wish I could afford a x1900. :rolleyes:
 
Logan321 said:
But realistically, the shader pipelines are getting to be more and more important, and the pixel pipelines are becoming less so. Sure, for older games... but then, show me an older game that doesn't have shaders that won't run full speed with max graphics on 16 pixel pipelines anyway.

ATI is futureproofing to a certain extent. I wish I could afford a x1900. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

i think it's too early maybe to go the route they did though, current and many future games are still going to benefit more from pixel pipes in my opinion, G71 will be a x1900 killer IMO, and by the time the shader intensive games can take advantage of the extra ALU's, i think both G71 and R580 will be a bit "long in the tooth", there will be yet another generation from both sides to accomodate those newer games
 
Anyone have a clue if theres gonna be something like this on the $300 plus area ? Im almost ready to buy the X1800XL.
 
$300 price range...Not any time soon.

I guess the vanilla X1900 might be ther, but it will be on par with an X850 from what I understand.
 
Yes it has 48 I think... not sure how that all comes together but it is one fast video card, but for a price.
 
no idea but 1920x1200 max settings with 4xaa and 16xaf on cod2 is silky smooth on my x1900xt :p
 
—§urfÅceЗ said:
Is this true? If it is, then this single card is 4 times better than the x1600 pro I was planning on...
Click to expand...
It would probably be 4 times better then the X1600 XT itself.

As 4xRV530 = R580 more or less.

except R580 only has 16 Z Samples per Clock vs RV530's 8.

It has 48 Pixel Shader Units, but still 16 Pipelines.
 
coldpower27 said:
It would probably be 4 times better then the X1600 XT itself.

As 4xRV530 = R580 more or less.

except R580 only has 16 Z Samples per Clock vs RV530's 8.

It has 48 Pixel Shader Units, but still 16 Pipelines.
Click to expand...

Yeah, judging from the benchmarks its actually more than 4x faster than a 1600xt... so i would assume about 6x faster then pro.. totally worth its value anyway
 
BBA said:
$300 price range...Not any time soon.

I guess the vanilla X1900 might be ther, but it will be on par with an X850 from what I understand.
Click to expand...

I don't think that many people would want to buy that card if you can get a X850 for less
 
misenthrope said:
i think it's too early maybe to go the route they did though, current and many future games are still going to benefit more from pixel pipes in my opinion, G71 will be a x1900 killer IMO, and by the time the shader intensive games can take advantage of the extra ALU's, i think both G71 and R580 will be a bit "long in the tooth", there will be yet another generation from both sides to accomodate those newer games
Click to expand...

Maybe, but how long does it usually take for the top-of-the-line cards' technology to trickle down to the mainstream cards? Usually about 4-6 months, yeah? So realistically, most of the games in the 2006 forecast are going to be fairly shader-intensive. Have you seen screenshots or videos for Gothic 3 or Elder Scrolls 4? Damn. Gonna make my computer slow by comparison again. dammit. :D
 
i can't believe how much confusion there still is on this stuff

especially considering the answer and explanation is givin with the very top article posted on the front page :p

R520 = 16 TMU's, 16 fragment shaders (also called shader processors or ALU's), 16 ROP's

R580 = 16 TMU's, 48 fragment shaders (shader processors/ALU's), 16 ROP's

let's stop calling things 'real' pipes and so forth, that is so inaccurate, each system in a GPU means something different for performance
 
Yes, it does indeed have 48 pipes, I believe. However, the number of pipes a card has isn't an indicator of performance. I wouldn't necessarily say that a X1900XT is 4x better than an X1600XT, but it is a good deal better.

edit: Just saw you said X1600PRO... yeah, that's not a very good card...
Click to expand...

woa, the X1900XT is probably 2-3x faster then the X1600pro, only due to it have having much more of everything else, also to call a X1600pro a bad card is very wierd, the card is awsome and if anyone were to smack down the whole $150 for it, would not be disapointed at all, if thats your market, this is a good card

they should have said the R580 has 16 pixel pipes, 48 fragment shaders vs. R520's 16 pixel pipes and 16 fragment shaders.........because we all know the pixel pipes make the largest difference
Click to expand...

they did....


i think it's too early maybe to go the route they did though, current and many future games are still going to benefit more from pixel pipes in my opinion, G71 will be a x1900 killer IMO, and by the time the shader intensive games can take advantage of the extra ALU's, i think both G71 and R580 will be a bit "long in the tooth", there will be yet another generation from both sides to accomodate those newer games
Click to expand...

except the phonominal increases we saw in fear, SS2, and BW2 ..., honestly how can you claim the G71 will be a killer at all? from a stand point of what we know the G71 will come with all we can declare is both cards will take performance dominance in sertain games while lacking in others when compared to each other

shader intensive games are already out and they are going to keep coming out, to claim its too early is to ignore the articles showing how 48 ALU's is actually a blessing
 
Trimlock said:
except the phonominal increases we saw in fear, SS2, and BW2 ..., honestly how can you claim the G71 will be a killer at all? from a stand point of what we know the G71 will come with all we can declare is both cards will take performance dominance in sertain games while lacking in others when compared to each other

shader intensive games are already out and they are going to keep coming out, to claim its too early is to ignore the articles showing how 48 ALU's is actually a blessing
Click to expand...

phenomenal loosely translated maybe, i havent seen anything about the x1900 that would make me want to buy one if i already had a x1800XT or 7800GTX, it's a bit faster in some things, but nothing "phenominal", i think you will find you are one of a very few who are actually that impressed with R580, an i have seen far too many comments/topics, etc......where they simply state "48 pipe architecture", etc..etc....and from the looks of it, with the daily "ZOMG R580 has 48 PIPES!! IT WILL PWN ALL" coments, they have done a good job at misinforming the public in general, or at least at allowing the public to assume incorrectly ;)

like i said, by the time the games are really taking advantage of it in a big way there will be faster cards, thats why i say it was too soon, but they had to go there sometime i guess, now either nvidia may be "behind the ball" in this way, or they may know something ATI doesn't, but trust me, as far as a R580/G71 matchup, if G71 is indeed 32 pipes(pixel pipes) with a 700+ Mhz core speed, R580 is in deep doo doo

then we will probably hear more of the same "90% faster in FEAR!!" was the claim when R520 was paper launched........then when they launched x1800XT it was "x1800XT was never meant to be a competitor to 7800GTX 512, you're supposed to compare it to 7800GTX 256!!!", so maybe this time it will be, "x1900XT was never supposed to be compared to 7900GTX!!, you're supposed to compare it to 7800GTX 512!!!"

selective marketing i guess
:cool:
 
Brent_Justice said:
i can't believe how much confusion there still is on this stuff

especially considering the answer and explanation is givin with the very top article posted on the front page :p

R520 = 16 TMU's, 16 fragment shaders (also called shader processors or ALU's), 16 ROP's

R580 = 16 TMU's, 48 fragment shaders (shader processors/ALU's), 16 ROP's

let's stop calling things 'real' pipes and so forth, that is so inaccurate, each system in a GPU means something different for performance
Click to expand...


Hey brent,

Will you guys start adding newer games to your benchmarks like TimeShift (demo out today), D&D Online, Resident Evil 4, Oblivion etc? I hope you guys diversify games in your testing a bit .
 
Brent_Justice said:
i can't believe how much confusion there still is on this stuff

especially considering the answer and explanation is givin with the very top article posted on the front page :p

R520 = 16 TMU's, 16 fragment shaders (also called shader processors or ALU's), 16 ROP's

R580 = 16 TMU's, 48 fragment shaders (shader processors/ALU's), 16 ROP's

let's stop calling things 'real' pipes and so forth, that is so inaccurate, each system in a GPU means something different for performance
Click to expand...

what exactly do the Shader processors do? shade pixels I take it, how many shader operations per pixel are there though. I mean if it only pumps out 16pixels/clock and each pixel only needs 2 shader ops wouldnt that be a waste of 16alus =p(if it works that way)?
 
Instead of making people guess, post half truths and other non sense, why don't we all just re-read the X1900XT article on the front page of HardOCP.

It's all explained inside.
 
phenomenal loosely translated maybe, i havent seen anything about the x1900 that would make me want to buy one if i already had a x1800XT or 7800GTX, it's a bit faster in some things, but nothing "phenominal", i think you will find you are one of a very few who are actually that impressed with R580, an i have seen far too many comments/topics, etc......where they simply state "48 pipe architecture", etc..etc....and from the looks of it, with the daily "ZOMG R580 has 48 PIPES!! IT WILL PWN ALL" coments, they have done a good job at misinforming the public in general, or at least at allowing the public to assume incorrectly
Click to expand...

you are forgetting the fact with one card we are getting playable frame rates in the most demanding games, maxed out, when compared to duel solutions from the competition and generation prior, it is a phenominal, SS2 1600x1200 HDR+AA MAX AF, duel GTX512's can't do this, or the fact that it just pretty much the exact same resolutions/eye candy as the duel set up, again with a single card... phenominal isn't loosely used, the 48 fragment shaders are definetly being taken advantage of
 
Trimlock said:
you are forgetting the fact with one card we are getting playable frame rates in the most demanding games, maxed out, when compared to duel solutions from the competition and generation prior, it is a phenominal, SS2 1600x1200 HDR+AA MAX AF, duel GTX512's can't do this, or the fact that it just pretty much the exact same resolutions/eye candy as the duel set up, again with a single card... phenominal isn't loosely used, the 48 fragment shaders are definetly being taken advantage of
Click to expand...
depending on the selected game of course.
 
Trimlock said:
you are forgetting the fact with one card we are getting playable frame rates in the most demanding games, maxed out, when compared to duel solutions from the competition and generation prior, it is a phenominal, SS2 1600x1200 HDR+AA MAX AF, duel GTX512's can't do this, or the fact that it just pretty much the exact same resolutions/eye candy as the duel set up, again with a single card... phenominal isn't loosely used, the 48 fragment shaders are definetly being taken advantage of
Click to expand...

but how much of a real performance increase is a single x1900XT over a single x1800XT?

not much, nothing "phenominal" in my book, but the price/availability is right for sure when compared to the NV offering it competes with, nothing like faster for less $$ and available now :)
 
misenthrope said:
i think it's too early maybe to go the route they did though, current and many future games are still going to benefit more from pixel pipes in my opinion, G71 will be a x1900 killer IMO, and by the time the shader intensive games can take advantage of the extra ALU's, i think both G71 and R580 will be a bit "long in the tooth", there will be yet another generation from both sides to accomodate those newer games
Click to expand...


Yeah but how many people bought a 6800 cause it has SM3!!! - and how long ago was that used? ATI is doing the same thing - adding features that will be used eventually and it ALREADY shows in games like F.E.A.R - when NVIDIA came out with SM3 there was not a single game using it.
 
MrGuvernment said:
Yeah but how many people bought a 6800 cause it has SM3!!! - and how long ago was that used? ATI is doing the same thing - adding features that will be used eventually and it ALREADY shows in games like F.E.A.R - when NVIDIA came out with SM3 there was not a single game using it.
Click to expand...

Far Cry wasn't?

Pacific Fighters wasn't?

i know there were some that were using it, maybe not, but i feel sure there were some, but if the x850's had SM3.0 support they would still be a solid buy for the $$
 
MrGuvernment said:
Yeah but how many people bought a 6800 cause it has SM3!!! - and how long ago was that used? ATI is doing the same thing - adding features that will be used eventually and it ALREADY shows in games like F.E.A.R - when NVIDIA came out with SM3 there was not a single game using it.
Click to expand...

You do realize there might be a small bit of correlation between developers needing SM3 compliant parts to do SM3 games? And an installed user base to sell those games to?

If there was no 6800, you'd be playing mostly SM2 games without soft stencil shadows or EXR HDR till 2007.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.
 
Far Cry wasn't?

Pacific Fighters wasn't?
Click to expand...

FC has extremely limited SM3 support, so no its not running SM3 really, pacific fighters is a brand new game, it didn't get developed till the very end of the 6800's life

If there was no 6800, you'd be playing mostly SM2 games without soft stencil shadows or EXR HDR till 2007.
Click to expand...

probably not FP16 HDR, maybe a less robust version of it, but we'd still have HDR, and really, soft shadows has yet to impress me in really any game its been put in

but how much of a real performance increase is a single x1900XT over a single x1800XT?
Click to expand...

did you read the [H]'s review? it annihilated the competition, even to itself in shader heavey games, which was done in real time, not ingame benchmarks

fear:
http://hardocp.com/article.html?art=OTUzLDU=
one uping on the resolution and being able to run un optimized AF is a big difference

SS2:
http://hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTEzNzg5ODI2M3pQRHlTa3Y0U1NfNl84X2wuanBn
how can you argue being able to enable everything, including the kitchen sink (HDR) isn't a big increase in performance, HDR is a performance killer in every aspect, being able to turn it on and get excellent performance at high resolutions with 4xaa is something to be proud of
 
I have SLI 7800 GTX's. They are not as reliable as my single card solutions have been in the past, and it takes a lot more work to ensure you are actually getting the benefit of them in each game you play than it takes with a single card.

However, I also want to play all games at 1920x1200 and with as high of quality settings as possible, and so I pretty much had no other option 5 months ago when I bought them.

Now there is another option though. The X1900XTX appears to be able to achieve playable framerates in every major game out there today at 1920x1200, many with 4xAA and 16xAF. It's still not as fast as SLI GTX's (except in FEAR), but it's far less overhead and less technical difficulties (I hope). So that's whay I am moving to a single card X1900XTX setup.

Also, on that SS2 screenshot. I haven't played it yet with my X1900XTX, but I am guessing that you only get that much glare off the backboard when you are at just the right angle for it to reflect the sun directly in your eyes. Much like with any large shiny object in real life. Though of course you have to wonder why a backboard is SO damn shiny. But that doesn't sound like a direct HDR issue. It sounds like a an issue with the texture. It was probably designed to be highly reflective to show off the suns reflection without HDR in that scene, so when you actually do have HDR it ends up being way over-reflective.
 
Also, on that SS2 screenshot. I haven't played it yet with my X1900XTX, but I am guessing that you only get that much glare off the backboard when you are at just the right angle for it to reflect the sun directly in your eyes. Much like with any large shiny object in real life. Though of course you have to wonder why a backboard is SO damn shiny. But that doesn't sound like a direct HDR issue. It sounds like a an issue with the texture. It was probably designed to be highly reflective to show off the suns reflection without HDR in that scene, so when you actually do have HDR it ends up being way over-reflective.
Click to expand...

screen shots will never do HDR justice, or motion blur for that matter, the iris effect on HDR is what made that backboard so damn shiny i'm guessing, split seconds later i'm sure you can recognize the detail on the board again, its all in playing it and seeing it, HDR in farcry with screen shots really don't do it justice either, it looks great with HDR enabled and the screen shots don't really help it unless you are looking over the entire island standing still
 
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