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x1700 speculation

J

Jabo

n00b
Joined
Jan 19, 2006
Messages
9
So, what kind of card will the x1700 series be?

My bet:

256bit bus, 256Mb ram, with 1ghz effective clock.

6*3 or 8*3 architecture för 18 or 24 Shader pipes.

Price: $249 för pro (street price about 200-220) and $299 for xt (street price 260-270)


What do you think? :)
 
That high of a street price would put it awfully close to an X1800XL in price.
 
Direkt said:
That high of a street price would put it awfully close to an X1800XL in price.
Click to expand...

Isn't the x1800xl still well over $300 though?

I figure ATI has a huge hole in their lineup with the x1600xt being a $160 card street price and the x1800xl being at least $300.

But maybe you are right, maybe they will be doing one card in between instead of two.
 
I would like to see the x1700 with 12*3 architecture for 36 shader pipes. for $299 MSRP. Say with 550mhz core / 1000mhz mem and 256MB of RAM?
 
ClearM4 said:
I would like to see the x1700 with 12*3 architecture for 36 shader pipes. for $299 MSRP. Say with 550mhz core / 1000mhz mem and 256MB of RAM?
Click to expand...

Well I would sure like that, but with specs like that, it might surpass even the x1800xt under some conditions. Could we really be so lucky for $299 MSRP?
 
Man if there is a X1700 and it can run Source on all highest settings with HDR and UT2007 pretty decent, I might have to jump all over that card if it is at a reasonable price.
 
Jabo said:
Isn't the x1800xl still well over $300 though?
I figure ATI has a huge whole in their lineup with the x1600xt being a $160 card street price and the x1800xl being at least $300.
Click to expand...
ATi does have quite a hole in their lineup. I think aiming for a street price of around $249 would be good. The X1800XL can be found pretty near $300
 
i doubt it'll have a 256 mem buss, expect it to be 128 and a 8-1-3-1 set up
 
I am holding out with this X800XL card till i can get a X1700XT card then crossfire it with a RD580 board. This system needs a video card/mobo overhual.
 
I'd probably be happy if it was an X1600XT with a 256-bit bus and a couple more vertex shaders, for around the same price.
 
It is very likely that the RV560 will not have a 256Bit External Memory Interface. That item is typically reserved for the enthusiast level GPU and it's derivatives. Anything with die size of 200mm2 or greater will typically have it now in the world of GPU's.

Now with that out of the way, It will be on 80nm most likely, and 8-1-3-2 is probable for such a GPU, 12-1-3-1 will more likely be something like a Radeon X1900 Standard.
 
TruthInRuin said:
Didnt ATi release a x1600xt with a 256bit bus?
Click to expand...
Nope. TheInquirer Fudging up information again. 256Bit Internal Ring Bus, 128Bit External Memory Interface. Analagous to the X1800's 512 Bit Internal Ring Bus, 256Bit External Memory Interface.
 
Ah, i see. Thanks for clearing that up.

Would be nice to finally have a mid-range card with a 256bit bus though, although I think the x700pro had one, it wasnt really worth it.
 
TruthInRuin said:
Ah, i see. Thanks for clearing that up.

Would be nice to finally have a mid-range card with a 256bit bus though, although I think the x700pro had one, it wasnt really worth it.
Click to expand...
Nah no X700 ever had 256Bit Memory Interface, you do have 256Bit Memory Bus on mainstream in a way. You have cheater cards, mainstream cards that utilize a high end core.

X800 GT, 6800 GS, X800 SE, 9800 SE, 6800 XT, 6800 LE. just to name a few....
 
I guess it all makes sense:

X1600 is a quarter x1900.

X1700 will possibly be a halved x1900.

People seem to think the x1700 will be a 128-bit bus card. Don't you think the $200-270 price point allows for att 256 bus?
I'm doubtful 128 will give enough bandwidth, especially if the x1800xl is going out of production and the higher ends x1700 (xt?) is supposed to replace and complement the rest of their lineup.
 
IMO, They need to aim the X1700 right at the 6800GS, in the $200-$225-$250 (depending on features/clocks/bundle) range.

As the 6800GS and X800XL show, it's possible to make a 256-bit memory bus card in this range, with ~1GHz DDR3. Perhaps 12x3 or 16x2, ~500MHz core, and ~1 GHz RAM?

As for the comment that such a part could potentially outperform the X1800, keep in mind that the X1800 line, with the possible exception of the X1800XL, is going to reach end of life real soon.
 
I would imagine it'll be a die shrunk x800/x850xt with all of the new doodads intro'd with the x1800/x1900 series (sm3.0, hdr, high speed soft shadows etc.) as that's been their MO in the past.
 
bobzdar said:
I would imagine it'll be a die shrunk x800/x850xt with all of the new doodads intro'd with the x1800/x1900 series (sm3.0, hdr, high speed soft shadows etc.) as that's been their MO in the past.
Click to expand...
you cant just die shrink a core and add on a bunch of crap for a midrange core... do you have any idea how much R&D that would cost?

itll be based on the R580, no doubt about it.
 
Really, you can't? How did ATI do it in the past then? The 9800 was basically a die shrunk 9700 with some added AA features, the stuff they've implemented will not be difficult to add as it's mostly in the control areas, not the shaders.

Also, x700 is a die shrunk 9800 with some added features and different memory bus (sm2.0b etc) 2 more vertex shaders etc., they have done this for a couple of generations...
 
Really, you can't? How did ATI do it in the past then? The 9800 was basically a die shrunk 9700 with some added AA features, the stuff they've implemented will not be difficult to add as it's mostly in the control areas, not the shaders.
Click to expand...

what AA features did the 9800 have that the 9700 didnt? that sounds like BS, and was most likely just more features in newer drivers... R350 was just R300 on a die shrink with higher clocks, i do not recall it being anything else.
Also, x700 is a die shrunk 9800 with some added features and different memory bus (sm2.0b etc) 2 more vertex shaders etc., they have done this for a couple of generations...
Click to expand...
no, the x700 is a die shrunk x800 (I think, cant remember if it was shrunk or not...) with a 128bit external memory bus... just like hte 9600 was to the 9800. again, in this case, all R&D went into the high end part, then they tested a die shrink on a lower end part, slapped it on a board with halved memory bus, and BOOM, midrange card.
 
It was 110nm vs 130nm for the x800 and 9800, but had the same 8 pixel pipes of the 9800. The x800 was very similar to the 9800 in and of itself anyway, just with more pixel pipes and new features. They are not difficult to add, and the way ATI has gone in the past I'd expect the x1700 to basically be a respun x800/850xt with the new sm3.0 stuff etc.

9800 had much more efficient AA algorithms (changed on the chip during the shrink, not in drivers or the 9700's would have gotten them as well) as well as that accumulation buffer thing (f-buffer?) that allowed longer shaders without having to loop back.
 
the x700 was a dieshrunk x800 with pipes disabled. ATI added features/pipes to the R350 and released it as R420, then shrunk it, disabled pipes, and released it as whatever the hell the x700 core is called.

nvidia does the same thing, but they dont take old cores and add things to them to release a midrange part... it doesnt make financial sense.

now then, for the x800/9800 series of parts, i guess you could make your claim, that its just an old core with new stuff. point is, they added the new stuff for hte high end and disabled some stuff in teh core for hte low end parts. with teh x1k parts, its a whole new core... it has much less in common with the x8xx series parts than the x800 did with the 9800.
 
The x700 was a 9800 pro, the only difference was the pci-e interface and higher clocks and the 128 bit memory bus. Just like the x600 was a 9600 with pci-e

edit: the x700 has more differences than the 9800 than i thought, 8 vertex shaders compared to 6, higher clocks, 128 bit memory bus, .11nm process, longer pixel shader instructions, 3Dc.. but the x600 was basically a 9600 on the pci-e bus. guess i should research a little before shooting my mouth off :rolleyes:

but im hoping the x1700 has a 12*3 architecture with a 256 bit memory bus cause this will hopefully be my next card.
 
TruthInRuin said:
The x700 was a 9800 pro, the only difference was the pci-e interface and higher clocks and the 128 bit memory bus. Just like the x600 was a 9600 with pci-e
Click to expand...
...and ps2.0b, and all the features and crap the x800 had.

bottom line: the x1700 will not be based on a 3 year old architechture (R300). it will be based on ATI's new stuff. its much easier to produce one part and clock them differently, disable stuff, throw them on a different PCB than it is to produce a bunch of different cores.
 
DougLite said:
As for the comment that such a part could potentially outperform the X1800, keep in mind that the X1800 line, with the possible exception of the X1800XL, is going to reach end of life real soon.
Click to expand...

When I posted that, I didn't know for sure that the x1800:s were being discontinued. :(

This, however, means that the x1700 will have an even bigger gap to fill. Unless ATI also brings out an x1900xl at sort of the same price point as the x1800xl. I guess all imformation points to this being their intention.
 
Jabo said:
When I posted that, I didn't know for sure that the x1800:s were being discontinued. :(
Click to expand...

everything gets discontinued at some point

lithium726 said:
bottom line: the x1700 will not be based on a 3 year old architechture (R300). it will be based on ATI's new stuff. its much easier to produce one part and clock them differently, disable stuff, throw them on a different PCB than it is to produce a bunch of different cores.
Click to expand...

Yes. Anyone thinking it will be based on R300 is off
 
No, the X700 Series was based on X800 technology, but with stuff flat out removed and not just disabled, there is a huge difference with disabled vs removed completely.

X700 has the same feature set as the X800 line except for the fact that it was based on 0.11 micron technology without Low-k, and had half the pixel shaders of the X800, was clocked lower in realation to the X800 Series, and limited to 128Bit Memory interface due to smaller die size. Same amount of Vertex Shaders as X800 interstingly enough.

RV560 will indeed be based on R5xx technology, though it could be a performance mainstream core with 12 Pipes, it's hard to say really. If it's a mainstream core intended for the 199-249US, I would say it will have 8 Pipes with 24 Pixel Shader Units but limited to 128Bit External Memory Interface.

If it's meant for the 300-400US range, then I would say it's 12 Pipeline part.
 
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