x-fi vs. my onboard realtek ac'97

Z

zoinks

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
261
i know i'm gonna get flamed here but i don't care.

my new x-fi extreme music is now behind the customer service desk at best buy...i can't believe they gave me a refund. i'd also like to add that it is very rare for me to return anything.

game:
this card did what i hoped for as i was experiencing a stutter in silent hunter 3 when massive ship explosions occur...nice smooth graphics and audio(although i did hear some pops and it might be that i was in "entertainment mode" and not "game mode"). after switching to game mode i did not hear any pops after sinking about 6 ships...so maybe that was my problem.

currently i am using ath-a500 headphones from audio-technica as my stereo is tied up in storage due to a recent out-of-state move. they are better than average cans and i was impressed when i first got them. i wish i could've heard this card on my stereo.

music:

realtek ac'97: been listening to my cans on this for 2 weeks and have been impressed at the sound. very lively and good soundstage...i now appreciate what good headphones can do...wish i got the a900's now :rolleyes: great punchy bass and good highs. very well balanced sound and surprisingly clean for onboard audio.

x-fi extreme music: at first i thought i had some driver issues. there is a minimal install option that just loads the drivers and a couple apps. this takes longer to install than the full install option with all their media players, etc. :confused: i uninstalled and installed several times because i couldn't believe the sound. very muddy. not well balanced. very processed? my headphones sounded dead. i played with the eq alot and found the best sound was to turn it off and just use the bass and treble knobs. the 24 bit crystalyzer behaved as it should adding more punch in accordance with the adjustable slider. however, it did not match the livelyness of the onboard :eek:

i have been playing guitar for 18 years and played with alot of musicians. i know how a popping bass string sounds...what good wood does for an acoustic guitar, etc. the best way i can describe the sound was that it was coming from the apartment below and not in the same room like the onboard sound. or just the bass is muddy and fake sounding. on a good note, the highs i could get were unmatched by the onboard.

possible conclusion:
1. i'm used to the sound i had and this is different.
2. this card does not perform well with these headphones.
3. driver issues - using 6.66 nvidia chipset and 77.77 nvidia video.
4. this card does not produce music to my liking.
5. i got a faulty card.

definite conclusion:
i think this card sounds like crap and i got my $140.97 back in my pocket.
 
Didya run the calibration tests? how about the Creative diagnostics?

Try doing that.
 
shoney said:
Didya run the calibration tests? how about the Creative diagnostics?

Try doing that.
Click to expand...

Haha, do some reading.... He already returned it

Sounds like you were not pleased, it seems to be mixed reviews concerning the X-fi. If I were to get one it would be the extreme music one, but with Creative's track record with drivers and support I am not sure if I want to risk anything new. Plus any of the other X-fi cards are just crazily overpriced
 
shoney said:
Didya run the calibration tests? how about the Creative diagnostics?

Try doing that.
Click to expand...

nope. already returned it. didn't know about any calibration or diagnostics to run. that great poster of a manual is just pathetic. guess i should've looked at the online manual but that was one of the things i did not think about. are you supposed to calibrate the card?
 
FWIW, if you are a musician, what you WANT is to get the Audigy 2zs Platinum (with all those nice MIDI port connections and such) on eBay for $100 or so. Cheaper, more connectivity, etc.

And then use the kx drivers for it, which are designed for and by musicians, and forget Creative's stuff.

Creative's drivers are better for the "average user" and gamers. I'm a gamer, not a musician, so I use their drivers...but have not done the X-Fi thing. Still using the Audigy - mostly for the reason that the *idea* of the mode switcher IRKS me. I want to be able to play my audio back with 24-bit precision AND still get EAX (Foobar2000 running through a playlist while gaming). The either/or decision the X-Fi forces on you is annoying.

In any case, with Creative's products - Audigy for sure, and I'd put money the X-Fi is no different - you really WANT to disable all their crap. Disable CMSS, disable the crapilizer, turn off their equalizer, etc. For purest audio reproduction, it's Foobar2000 with kernel streaming and none of the Creative driver features on.
 
I mostly play games and use the Kx drivers on my SB Live! card. Not only does the card sound better, but it's not as buggy as the creative's live! drivers.
 
wow sucks to hear that you're not satisfied with the x-fi. i guess you just can't please everyone. i'm wondering, why don't you take the $140 that you got back and buy an emu card? i'm sure it'll sound much better than ur ac97
 
heh, my xfi music sounds brilliant on my senn 485 headphones. AOE3 demo sounded incredible as well as bf2. then again i got the fif with a 10 dollar coupon and 10 percent off. i think the new drivers are great. full install.
 
zoinks said:
i know i'm gonna get flamed here but i don't care.

my new x-fi extreme music is now behind the customer service desk at best buy...i can't believe they gave me a refund. i'd also like to add that it is very rare for me to return anything.

game:
this card did what i hoped for as i was experiencing a stutter in silent hunter 3 when massive ship explosions occur...nice smooth graphics and audio(although i did hear some pops and it might be that i was in "entertainment mode" and not "game mode"). after switching to game mode i did not hear any pops after sinking about 6 ships...so maybe that was my problem.

currently i am using ath-a500 headphones from audio-technica as my stereo is tied up in storage due to a recent out-of-state move. they are better than average cans and i was impressed when i first got them. i wish i could've heard this card on my stereo.

music:

realtek ac'97: been listening to my cans on this for 2 weeks and have been impressed at the sound. very lively and good soundstage...i now appreciate what good headphones can do...wish i got the a900's now :rolleyes: great punchy bass and good highs. very well balanced sound and surprisingly clean for onboard audio.

x-fi extreme music: at first i thought i had some driver issues. there is a minimal install option that just loads the drivers and a couple apps. this takes longer to install than the full install option with all their media players, etc. :confused: i uninstalled and installed several times because i couldn't believe the sound. very muddy. not well balanced. very processed? my headphones sounded dead. i played with the eq alot and found the best sound was to turn it off and just use the bass and treble knobs. the 24 bit crystalyzer behaved as it should adding more punch in accordance with the adjustable slider. however, it did not match the livelyness of the onboard :eek:

i have been playing guitar for 18 years and played with alot of musicians. i know how a popping bass string sounds...what good wood does for an acoustic guitar, etc. the best way i can describe the sound was that it was coming from the apartment below and not in the same room like the onboard sound. or just the bass is muddy and fake sounding. on a good note, the highs i could get were unmatched by the onboard.

possible conclusion:
1. i'm used to the sound i had and this is different.
2. this card does not perform well with these headphones.
3. driver issues - using 6.66 nvidia chipset and 77.77 nvidia video.
4. this card does not produce music to my liking.
5. i got a faulty card.

definite conclusion:
i think this card sounds like crap and i got my $140.97 back in my pocket.
Click to expand...

Your likely conclusions are a combination of #1 and #5, and a reason that is not included in any of the above. That onboard Realtek AC'97 audio has no headphone op-amp at all whatsoever, which seriously underpowers any headphones which are connected to its jack. On the other hand, all those CMSS-3D effects are enabled by default when you install the X-Fi's drivers. The enabled-by-default CMSS-3D is likely the cause of bad sound from the X-Fi.

And the reason why I said #1 is because you are so much used to bassless, harsh, shrill, weak sound. Most implementations of the Realtek AC'97 sound produce a steep bass roll-off below 80Hz and a significant upper-midrange peak around 4kHz. And that's not to mention that the onboard Realtek's forced resampling of 44.1kHz audio to 48kHz is at least equally as horrible as the one used in the SB Live!.
 
thanks for the info on the kx drivers. at the time of purchase i was looking at the esi juli@, hda digital x mystique, and x-fi. i really built my system to game so i went with the card that i thought would have the least problems in that area. and seeing alot of people rave about it. i'm just shocked that my onboard sounds better musically.

i really wanted the juli@ but was worried about gaming.
 
zoinks said:
thanks for the info on the kx drivers. at the time of purchase i was looking at the esi juli@, hda digital x mystique, and x-fi. i really built my system to game so i went with the card that i thought would have the least problems in that area. and seeing alot of people rave about it. i'm just shocked that my onboard sounds better musically.

i really wanted the juli@ but was worried about gaming.
Click to expand...

I tried the same onboard sound myself. That onboard is absolutely unlistenable to my ears. Harsh grating sound which makes my ears bleed, with no way at all whatsoever to even turn those highs down. And not even a full bass boost would make the onboard even listenable -- it only adds severe distortion. Extremely inaccurate (sound-wise), to say the least.
 
E4g1e said:
Your likely conclusions are a combination of #1 and #5, and a reason that is not included in any of the above. That onboard Realtek AC'97 audio has no headphone op-amp at all whatsoever, which seriously underpowers any headphones which are connected to its jack. On the other hand, all those CMSS-3D effects are enabled by default when you install the X-Fi's drivers. The enabled-by-default CMSS-3D is likely the cause of bad sound from the X-Fi.

And the reason why I said #1 is because you are so much used to bassless, harsh, shrill, weak sound. Most implementations of the Realtek AC'97 sound produce a steep bass roll-off below 80Hz and a significant upper-midrange peak around 4kHz. And that's not to mention that the onboard Realtek's forced resampling of 44.1kHz audio to 48kHz is at least equally as horrible as the one used in the SB Live!.
Click to expand...

i did turn off all effects including cmss-3d(i'm positive). i swapped between onboard and x-fi playing all types of music so much i thought my head would cave in. the x-fi did have more volume but these cans are not underpowered by the realtek. the simple fact is that the bass sounded better and true, not muddy. baseless - no. the onboard produced better bass.
 
I bought and returned the X-Fi XtremeMusic the same week as well. I thought it was great in games compared to my onboard sound (vnf3-250) but was worse for everything else, I felt the same and thought the sound was muddy. Yes I did run through diagnostics, even spent time with creative tech support and going through the different installs they wanted me to try.
 
E4g1e said:
I tried the same onboard sound myself. That onboard is absolutely unlistenable to my ears. Harsh grating sound which makes my ears bleed, with no way at all whatsoever to even turn those highs down. And not even a full bass boost would make the onboard even listenable -- it only adds severe distortion. Extremely inaccurate (sound-wise), to say the least.
Click to expand...

i am starting to think something was wrong with that card(or me) cause i KNOW the onboard should've got smoked by the x-fi. perhaps my settings were the issue but when i called best buy and they said they'd refund, i did not hesitate.
 
NeonFlak said:
I bought and returned the X-Fi XtremeMusic the same week as well. I thought it was great in games compared to my onboard sound (vnf3-250) but was worse for everything else, I felt the same and thought the sound was muddy. Yes I did run through diagnostics, even spent time with creative tech support and going through the different installs they wanted me to try.
Click to expand...

you may have saved some of my sanity.
 
Creative's quality control has gone down the crapper with their recent cards. First, my previous Audigy2 ZS Platinum would no longer be detected as an Audigy series card, and the bundled driver software wouldn't even install at all whatsoever. Next, there are reports of erratic quality control with the first production batch of X-Fi cards: There are people like me who get lucky and get a good-performing sample -- but there are others whose X-Fi cards produced even muddier sound than the sound that's coming from a known muddy source or have had compatibility issues with them.
 
no mud on my xfi here. i do have to say howerver that cmss3d in headphone mode sounds like complete ass. just disable it and listen to 2 channel.
 
xxBlackCrossxx said:
no mud on my xfi here. i do have to say howerver that cmss3d in headphone mode sounds like complete ass. just disable it and listen to 2 channel.
Click to expand...

on games or music? cause the headphone mode was intended for games....
 
I think music sounds great in CMSS with 5.1 speakers, but with headphones... not so much
 
I find it hard to listen to music in CMSS/2 mode as well.

Stereo is fine but I really like the 24 bit 6 channel DVD Audio these things play...now that is something that sounds real.

BTW: Zoinks...I bet your problem is improper impedence matching on your cans. Chances are a headphone pre-amp would cure any problems.

Which brings up another point...what headphones did Creative use for the demo sessions at quakecon?
 
On second thought...maybe I shouldnt worry about what headphones they used a quakecon...they used a distribution amplifier, so I might have to make a headphone amp to use with it. Hmmm...maybe I'll make a little tube amp for the headphones. :)
 
impedence on these headphones is 64 ohms - maybe too sensitive? creative has no specs on the line out impedence so :confused:

juli@ was a card i looked at has 100 ohm minimum line out.

course i could get that card with this and ...so much for that gaming system :rolleyes:
 
zoinks said:
impedence on these headphones is 64 ohms - maybe too sensitive? creative has no specs on the line out impedence so :confused:

juli@ was a card i looked at has 100 ohm minimum line out.

course i could get that card with this and ...so much for that gaming system :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


I know...but you have to consider that since the original SB16 (designed to drive internal PC speakers) Creative has not had a high power output driver chip on the sound cards, so you can bet it's a relatively high output impedance capability at best.


I think an amp would be in order, and you can build one for just a few dollars in radio shack parts.
 
zoinks said:
i know i'm gonna get flamed here but i don't care.

my new x-fi extreme music is now behind the customer service desk at best buy...i can't believe they gave me a refund. i'd also like to add that it is very rare for me to return anything.

game:
this card did what i hoped for as i was experiencing a stutter in silent hunter 3 when massive ship explosions occur...nice smooth graphics and audio(although i did hear some pops and it might be that i was in "entertainment mode" and not "game mode"). after switching to game mode i did not hear any pops after sinking about 6 ships...so maybe that was my problem.
--Cut--

definite conclusion:
i think this card sounds like crap and i got my $140.97 back in my pocket.
Click to expand...

Well, I was holding tight to my Audigy2 ZS and wasn't looking forward to buying the X-Fi at those prices but a gift from the wife changed that. I was going to pay about $20 more and get the Platinum ($199 minus 25%). After about two days I was ready to take mine back. It muddied my MP3's and some of my older/classic Rock and Motown WAVE files as well. These old tunes was so bad it sounded like I was using a Wa-Wa or a NA-Wa footswitch. I play Bass ;)

I went into safe mode, removed all the Drivers and end checked the registry for leftovers. I tried it one more time but then I disabled the CMSS 3D stuff, left the EQ disabled, enabled the crystalizer 50%, played Hotel California DVD Audio disk in 24bit/96KHz . BOOM it sounded just like all the hype and then some. The Sub even adds 15 and 12+ db depending on the App. Like the other guy, my wife even noticed it. 3 of my friends heard it and went cleaned out the local Best Buy.

1. i'm used to the sound i had and this is different.
I saw this first hand while stationed in Germany. I saw GIs pick Sansui over Phase Linear.

2. this card does not perform well with these headphones.
Sounds like a Settings and Driver problem. It made my Crappy Philips HP 890s sound good enough that I put off replacing them anytime soon. I'm now looking at a receiver instead.

3. driver issues - using 6.66 nvidia chipset and 77.77 nvidia video.
No problems with my ATI 9700 Pro.

4. this card does not produce music to my liking.
I have 4 Computers set up in my computer Room. DFI with a VIA 694 686B+AC97, Hercules MUSE 5.1, Audigy#1 and mine the X-Fi. I haven't gotten around to reinstalling my old A2-ZS yet. Anyway, the others aren't anywhere close to the sound of the X-Fi=P

5. i got a faulty card.
You wouldn't be the first. It could also be not setup or installed correctly. I thought WinAMP sucked until a bud added some Plug-ins. I've since reinstalled the 5.1 version and I'm waiting for him to do it again, hehehehe!

The drivers and apps that come with the X-Fi are not only some of the best Creative has shipped, it is some of the best sound card software and drivers=P IMHO!

I don't like having 3 splitters on the FlexiJack and still want the Platinum version. I still think Creative should ship a cheap or even a free Daughter card with extra Connections. I miss having two MIC inputs.

Donnie27
 
Donnie27 said:
You wouldn't be the first. It could also be not setup or installed correctly. I thought WinAMP sucked until a bud added some Plug-ins. I've since reinstalled the 5.1 version and I'm waiting for him to do it again, hehehehe!
Click to expand...

Well, WinAMP *does* suck. Foobar all the way! :D
 
dderidex said:
Well, WinAMP *does* suck. Foobar all the way! :D
Click to expand...

With just the default settings, WinAMP sounds better on X-Fi than it did on the Audigy2 ZS and to me, better than the Revos as well.

Donnie27
 
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