wonderfield
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2011
- Messages
- 7,396
How are you enjoying your Chromebooks and Chromeboxes?
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
-
Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.
WWDC 14
- Thread starter ultraman7k
- Start date
I get what you mean, Apple is about refinement. But please explain to me how adding Swype support earlier would cause a mess or be less integrated than now.
People like to act as if Android is a 'mess' or is somehow less integrated, which is nonsense. Google services seamlessly integrate with 3trd party services and the whole experience is just as polished and seamless. There's nothing more integrated or well baked about Apple's implementation except the fact you have to wait years for it.
People like to act as if Android is a 'mess' or is somehow less integrated, which is nonsense. Google services seamlessly integrate with 3trd party services and the whole experience is just as polished and seamless. There's nothing more integrated or well baked about Apple's implementation except the fact you have to wait years for it.
I only have a Chromebox, so far liking it. Not sure if your question was serious though.
wonderfield
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2011
- Messages
- 7,396
If you're unsure, you probably understand what I was getting at by asking.
odoe
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2001
- Messages
- 9,796
The Swift announcement just kicked all the Obj-C devs in the nads. It looks interesting though.
ultraman7k
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2011
- Messages
- 267
I'm interested in seeing what the 4th gen Apple Tv will do. Hopefully they release that this fall.
Wrong. Yosemite will "see" that your phone is nearby and it has the hotspot capability. It will then turn it on for you should you choose to use it. The hotspot is not "live" at all times. Re-watch the keynote.
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 17,059
I totally agree, but that's not how I saw it presented. We'll just have to wait and see, I guess. I still don't get the purpose though. If you have an iPhone, it's always online. ANy work you do will automatically be synced to the cloud on any document you create. Pretty much instantly. So, if you're working on something while walking down the road, and you stop to walk in your door and sit at your computer and boot it up, the file will be there when you go to get it.
This functionality already exists, I thought. If you create a Pages document on your phone, shut down your phone and then open your iCloud docs on your computer, it's already there. It's already updated and waiting. Why take the extra step of creating that same functionality using BT LE or a wifi hotspot? I really think I'm missing something...
Ok, lets pretend we're in the real world usage scenario where this might be used. Say, I'm on the train commuting to work. I'm on my phone and I do a Pages document. Or I edit one, whatever. I get off the train, get into work (say its across from the station) and want to continue from where I left off.EVEN IF I NEVER STOP WORKING on the document, not wile crossing the street work walking in the door or sitting down and booting my computer, because LTE is fast enough that a Pages doc (a mb or two in size if really large) will EASILY upload from the phone and down to the computer in the time it takes me to open the folder containing it. Why bother with the new setup?
And OneDrive/Dropbox/GoogleDrive all do the same thing already. I understand bringing it in-house, but why the new standard. As far as I can tell there is ONE situation in which the new system makes sense: no internet available for the PC. For example, if I start on my desktop, and then head out and work on my phone, but want to switch to my laptop on the train (and I don't pay for hotspot capability on my phone), I can use this new feature to send the document from the phone to the laptop. Assuming I'm using a mac, which for business purposes isn't terribly likely.
I'll admit, I'm probably missing something, because it makes no sense to me.
But as far as battery, we don't know it uses BT LE. In fact, BT was never mentioned, and the entire section this feature was discussed in dealt also with hotspot functionality, so it's more reasonable to think, as of right now, that's how it works. And leaving your hotspot on drains the battery on your phone very quickly since it's constantly broadcasting a wifi signal and being pinged by local devices.
And in order to work, this would have to be on ALL the time. Otherwise you'd be going into some menu to turn it on, and as discussed above that ads all kinds of time that makes no sense given existing capabilities.
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 17,059
But unless your phone is somehow broadcasting already, how is it going to see your phone? Is it watching the wifi network? At that point, why bother with the hotspot and not just use wifi? Bluetooth? Then you have to leave BT on all the time, and you have the same problem with battery drain.
It would need the phone to have Wifi on, and I bet Apple has implemented Bomjour on iOs, if it wasn't there already. That allows other devices on the same network to query and find out who's present. It's how AppleTv works too.
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 17,059
Sure, and remember, we already have WiFi sync. And that's what I mean. Why bother with a wifi hotspot or BT LE if there already seems to be an infrastructure in place for local transfer of files?
Why go like this:
- PC watches wifi network
- PC sees phone on wifi network
- PC tells phone to turn on BT LE or Hotspot (doesn't matter)
- PC connects to phone using BE LE or hotspot
- File transferred from phone and appropriate app launched
as opposed to:
- PC watches wifi network
- PC sees phone
- PC asks for and receives file (or vice versa, woth phone asking and sending) and launches appropriate app
or
- Phone sees PC on network
- User sends file via appropriate gestures (we dont know these yet)
- PC receives file and launches appropriate app
Neither of those require the phone to run anything it doesn't already, and doesn't necessitate two different wireless protocols. And it doesn't address the auto syncing that already occurs, obviating all three.
All the fan droids are mad why?
By the comments posted you guys have demanding lifestyles with some awesome tech already able to do everything and more then what apple has currently with ios8. I don't get the hate?
Unless your disappointed with Droids amazing features it cant sell more devices at good profit, and garner brand recognition.... For Droid, and the mfg.....
By the comments posted you guys have demanding lifestyles with some awesome tech already able to do everything and more then what apple has currently with ios8. I don't get the hate?
Unless your disappointed with Droids amazing features it cant sell more devices at good profit, and garner brand recognition.... For Droid, and the mfg.....
D
Deleted whining member 223597
Guest
I installed hangouts on my iPhone, and none of my friends with Android have it. I really wish they would just make it the stock app on android.
It is the stock app on Android since Jelly bean or maybe earlier, it replaces Talk.
techtechie
Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2013
- Messages
- 571
thats part of the beauty of android, you have your OS and then the option for all the manufacturers' bloatware is right on the play store.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2007
- Messages
- 4,585
Only the foolish ones are mad. While I hate Apple (for many reasons) I respect what they do. I find it laughable that it took this long for them to add so much of this functionality but I still welcome it.
Competition is a good thing. Adding this functionality will only push Google to work harder and vice versa,
Apple did have some very interesting stuff today too outside of just copying Android functionality.
Swift is very cool. The continuous sync function is very cool as well. Metal is amazing but I see it being another Mantle or PhysX type thing. I hope I'm wrong but most likely we will see a few iOS only games make use of it and look amazing but overall developers will still go for both platforms because that's where the money is.
Only on the Nexus devices. Hangouts is not the default messaging app on OEM phones.
You mean for SMS. But Hangouts should be installed and active on any Android phone running JB or newer. Its not going to get SMS by default but should work with normal Hangouts messages.
D
Deleted whining member 223597
Guest
I meant the messages aspect since iMessage is sms, not calling.
soulesschild
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2007
- Messages
- 6,176
Finally I can possibly get Swype on an iPhone. Probably jumping ship soon as the iPhone 6 is announced.
This is pretty much only thing I care about in a phone, if it has swype (and specifically swype all the alternatives just aren't as good). I may switch to iphone if they make a bigger one and swype comes out on it. I'm enjoying my droid maxx right now.
soulesschild
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2007
- Messages
- 6,176
Yea I have nothing agaisnt Android/Google other than the fact that
a) Can't really get a flagship phone that hits all the check boxes on my carrier (VZW I hate you. But I love unlimited data and unlimited tethering for 30 a month that's faster than my comcast). For example, the N5 would have been perfect but has camera issues.
b) I work in iOS development and have a lot of things hooked up with Apple's ecosystem.
octoberasian
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 4,081
A lot of things I liked so far from what I saw, and this is coming from someone that's been on Windows the majority of his life yet owning an iPhone 5 for only a year:
In the future, a future iPhone and Mac computer can work as if one device. The same environment and cohesiveness between two different devices. OSX would likely be more iOS like in the future.
We're likely going to see similar between Ubuntu Mobile and Ubuntu Desktop and Microsoft Windows and Windows Phone. This integration is going to happen where we can do one thing on the computer and continue it on the tablet or phone, or vice-versa.
- the new Metal API
- the ability to connect the iPhone to OSX and dial, talk, and answer to-and-from OSX
- alternative software keyboards, finally!
- after posting the leaked photos of OSX, that new desktop UI actually looks really good, especially the Dark mode
- iMessage improvements. Yay!
- Song recognition integrated into Siri. This is going to be useful since I have terrible memory on remembering song titles and artist names.
- HandOff between OSX and an iPhone/iPad
- iOS 8 extensions, this can be handy.
In the future, a future iPhone and Mac computer can work as if one device. The same environment and cohesiveness between two different devices. OSX would likely be more iOS like in the future.
We're likely going to see similar between Ubuntu Mobile and Ubuntu Desktop and Microsoft Windows and Windows Phone. This integration is going to happen where we can do one thing on the computer and continue it on the tablet or phone, or vice-versa.
Last edited:
I really like the iOS and OS X updates, even the flatter OS X look, except for the new Dock. The current one is simply gorgeous with its sleek design and elegant effects. The Yosemite one looks plain and dull (to me), almost like they didn't put so much thought into it, which I think is a shame since I think the dock is an integral part of OS X and a feature that makes the whole platform look beautiful and unique.
Agreed. I always found Obj-C code quite unreadable, especially with the way it vertically aligns the ':'.
Getting rid of that ugly Obj-C syntax is already worth the upgradeIt's going to make a lot of devs very happy.
Agreed. I always found Obj-C code quite unreadable, especially with the way it vertically aligns the ':'.
Last edited:
iMessage is not SMS. That's the entire point of iMessage.
Kicked in the nads? Is that why they were cheering?
Because you're thinking it operates ala a wifi hotspot. It doesn't.
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 17,059
Even if it works via BT LE it doesn't make any sense unless the target computer (where you are sending your work) does not have an internet connection.
I really think you need to watch the keynote.
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 9,312
I'm guessing the technology likely uses Bonjour, as someone else mentioned (or similar, knowing Apple).
What doesn't make sense to you? Wanting to send work to your computer, from your phone, when you have WiFi available? From what I understand, this tech isn't supposed to replace wireless syncing.... but it can actually launch applications, along with initiating file transfers, to make it a very seamless, no configuration, experience to the user.
Traditionally, if you wanted a file off your phone, you'd have to sync it manually with iTunes (or email the document to yourself/Upload it to dropbox, from your phone), then launch the app on your computer and find the document to start editing.
With this, at least how it was demo'd, you just open the same app on your mac, that you were using to edit on your phone, and bam... the document is already there exactly where you left off. I wonder if you can just go back and forth with it (not sure if they mentioned it). So make a small change on the phone, then on the desktop, back to the phone, etc.
He's stuck on the idea that somehow there's a constant wifi-based stream of data that will kill the iPhone's battery.
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 17,059
NO. That's NOT what I'm saying. Yes, having a hotspot running on the phone all the time, or leaving BT on looking for your PC will drain the battery, but it seems completely redundant.
Ok, maybe this is something I'm not used to on Apple devices (I have an iPhone for work, but a Windows Tablet and a Nexus 7 for a personal phone and all my PCs are Windows). If I make a Pages document on my phone, work on it, and then close pages, isn't it automatically synced to the cloud and then to my Mac? I guess I'm used to Google Docs or OneDrive or DropBox where all of that happens in the background automatically. I assumed the same thing happens on Apple Devices...
But again, even if it doesn't work that way, why add the extra step? We already have iTunes WiFi sync. Why bother with a wifi hotspot or BT LE setup if there already seems to be an infrastructure in place for local transfer of files?
The way this seems to work, to me, is:
- PC watches wifi network for Phone (and/or)
- I guess it might also use the BT radio to "see" the PC, but that would require constant BT usage by the phone which would make no sense and drain the battery.
- Phone watches wifi networks it connects to for PC
- PC sees phone on wifi network and phone sees PC
- PC tells phone to turn on BT LE or Hotspot (doesn't matter which)
- PC and phone connect using BT LE or hotspot
- File transferred from phone and appropriate app launched
as opposed to:
- PC watches wifi network and vice versa
- PC sees phone or vice versa
- Bonjour/wifi-sync handshake
-User tells phone to send file and PC launches appropriate app via existing wifi connection
There's no need to use BT LE (slower, extra battery drain) or the phone's hotspot (same speed but added battery drain). And it doesn't address the auto syncing that (I assume) already occurs, which makes both procedures pointless UNLESS, and this is the only situation in which it makes any sense, the PC lacks a wireless adapter or is connected to a hardwired-only network. Neither of which is likely these days; particularly for those who would do this kind of file transfer.
So bottom line: Why not use the existing wifi network as opposed to some additional radio/network connection (BTLE or local hotspot)?
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 9,312
No, it isn't automatically synced. You 'might' be able to set that up, but not that I'm aware of (I don't own a Mac). As I said, you can manually sync your phone to your computer, either via Wifi or USB, to transfer Documents/Apps/Music/etc over and then open said documents on the computer... but that's not what this technology is supposed to do. It eliminates the user having to go through those steps. No need to upload it to dropbox, email it, sync it or anything. It's just automatically there
What this is supposed to do (from what I understand) is allow you to be editing a Pages document on your iPhone, then picking up your iPad and having the ability to continue working on the exact same document exactly where you left off without any need for the user to save and then 'transfer' the document. And if you then, wanted a larger display, you can go over to your mac and continue on that if you'd like. No syncing or anything needed. You can think about it sort of like AirPlay, but with files opposed to media.
Nobody really knows how it works yet (as far as I know). If I had to guess, it can probably use a variety of different technologies (bluetooth and/or wifi) to work. That way it's useful both at home and on the road where you might not have WiFi access. Or who knows, maybe the phone can use a low power mode to connect to a mac via a hotspot (so it can transfer data back and forth from phone to laptop) without giving it full on network access
Leaving Bluetooth on is not a battery drain in 2014 with a Bluetooth LE device. Even when constantly active, the battery drain is not an issue--and that's why you plug the thing in to charge.
You're complaining about a scenario that will never occur, because people know how to plug their mobile devices in to power. Your continued harping on this point completely detracts from how incredible the feature is.
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2001
- Messages
- 21,771
It feels like iOS8 runs smoother than iOS7. I did see a glitch when I opened up the facebook app (was the first app I ran after updating) and it flashed my wallpaper up for a millisecond while loading the facebook app, hasn't done it since.
I like the predictive text when typing, makes it a bit quicker.
Seeing all the pictures in the details tab in imessage is cool.
I like the predictive text when typing, makes it a bit quicker.
Seeing all the pictures in the details tab in imessage is cool.
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 17,059
This, I think, answers my question. I thought that iCloud already did this automatically as a Apple-branded dropbox/OneDrive competitor. This now makes sense in light of the iCloud Drive announcement. I'm just used to things automatically syncing anyway. Never crossed my mind that Apple lacked that tech.
wonderfield
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2011
- Messages
- 7,396
Apple does not lack this technology. The scenario you described is what iCloud does. This is a Handoff is a different technology. It is not a hotspot: the hotspot feature is engaged separately.
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 9,312
iCloud does automatically do it already, providing the developer uses it obviously.
So say for example, I was playing a game on my iPad and then saved it, I should be able to go over to my phone and pick it back up.
That's NOT what this tech is. Honestly... you're better off just watching the demo they showed at the keynote. It's deeper than just file syncing, but apparently I'm not articulating that well enough. It pretty neat stuff
wonderfield
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2011
- Messages
- 7,396
What iCloud (and Google Drive, Dropbox, etc.) does not do is communicate with apps on other devices and provide notifications and mechanisms to get you back into the document you had open on another device. If you have the same file open at the same time on both machines, iCloud has you covered. On a Mac, you're also (probably) covered if you're using some other file sync technology, as file changes generally propagate through to apps that have those files open. Otherwise, Handshake communicates to the app's counterpart on another device that resumability is available. It notifies the OS; the OS notifies the app; the user is notified.
I'm certainly unaware of any competing technology from any other vendor.
I'm certainly unaware of any competing technology from any other vendor.
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 17,059
OK here's the video of that section of the keynote:
http://www.theverge.com/2014/6/2/5772870/ios-continuity-airdrop-between-os-x-and-ios-video
But watch it again, its not saying that this is not using the phone as a wireless access point (and maybe we need to distinguish between the phoen acting as an internet-sharing hotspot, and simply as a wifi accesspoint).
But the video does not mention how all this happens. It doesn't mention BT at all. And saying it works from across the house indicates it's NOT bluetooth: it doesn't have that kind of range. At least not reliably enough to make that claim.
We also know it's not using the local wifi network, since the video plainly states that it works when out of range of a network because it will prompt to using the phone as an LTE hotspot.
So, it's not bluetooth (lacks the claimed range)
It's not using a local wifi network (since it works without one)
So it has to be using the phone as a wireless access point that can be converted into a hotspot. And as I said, leaving your phone in hotspot mode (unless they are adding a new "access point" mode that is somehow different than hotspot mode [not sur ehow]) is NOT kind to a battery (maybe the source of their comment regarding "across the house in a charger.")
http://www.theverge.com/2014/6/2/5772870/ios-continuity-airdrop-between-os-x-and-ios-video
But watch it again, its not saying that this is not using the phone as a wireless access point (and maybe we need to distinguish between the phoen acting as an internet-sharing hotspot, and simply as a wifi accesspoint).
But the video does not mention how all this happens. It doesn't mention BT at all. And saying it works from across the house indicates it's NOT bluetooth: it doesn't have that kind of range. At least not reliably enough to make that claim.
We also know it's not using the local wifi network, since the video plainly states that it works when out of range of a network because it will prompt to using the phone as an LTE hotspot.
So, it's not bluetooth (lacks the claimed range)
It's not using a local wifi network (since it works without one)
So it has to be using the phone as a wireless access point that can be converted into a hotspot. And as I said, leaving your phone in hotspot mode (unless they are adding a new "access point" mode that is somehow different than hotspot mode [not sur ehow]) is NOT kind to a battery (maybe the source of their comment regarding "across the house in a charger.")
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2006
- Messages
- 11,653
You sure about that? Her 4s was unusable? My plain-Jane iPhone 4 runs it just fine. No, it's not as snappy as my 5s, but I certainly wouldn't call it "unusable."