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Writing zeros to drive

C

Cryptic

Gawd
Joined
Aug 22, 2004
Messages
836
Before my question, YES, I have searched but couldn't find the answers I was looking for.

1. What are the advantages to writing zeros to the drive?

2. How long should it take to write full zeros to a 120gig sata drive? I ask because it use to take upwards of 7 hours to write zeros to my old 80gig seagate ide drive and I saw a post where someone mentioned it only took an hour and a half to write zeros to their drive..

3. Can this be done as many times as one would wish or does it harm the disk over time?

Thanks to all who reply :D
 
1. A) If you are trying to erase the drive you want a tool (like drivewipe) that writes more than zeros to the disk.

B) If you are trying to avoid the "first write" penalty, any sort of 'dd' tool that will write a file to fill the drive is all you need.

2. I don't know how long it should take

3. It's no more stressfull than running a full disk benchmark as long as you have adequate cooling.

Hope this helps
 
1) Wipes the drive completely. Brand spanking new.
2) 7 Hours doesnt seem right for a 80GB HD. Considering it only took about 2 for my old 40.
But you can't really estimate it. It takes as long as your drive is big. The bigger the drive the longer it takes. Considering it has to write 0's and 1's to XXXXX sectors of data.
3) Yes you can, but I don't see why. I doubt it would be harmful...don't see why either.
^^ But why would you want to do it again and again? Usually Low Level Formats are a last resort option to HD's,
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but it's also a good idea to do this if you are going to sell your hard drive to another person and might want to get rid of all your sensitive data. It will be pretty hard or close to imposible for an average computer user to retrieve the old data.
 
I'm 99% sure i autoclave an 80Gb maxtor 2 weeks ago and it took like 1:30hrs, the option was the first one, zero fill only..dunno why it takes that long on yours :(

0ldmX
 
Writing zeros to a hdd is what a normal format does if im not mistaken, and its quite easy to retrieve the data with a special PCI card. Better thing to use is DBAN and just write random shite all over it 30 times to make sure nothings left :p
 
FunkStar said:
Writing zeros to a hdd is what a normal format does if im not mistaken, and its quite easy to retrieve the data with a special PCI card. Better thing to use is DBAN and just write random shite all over it 30 times to make sure nothings left :p
Click to expand...

A normal format only deletes the files but they are still recoverable. Its like when you delete something from the recycle bin, its no longer visibly on your HDD, but until it is overwritten it is still recoverable. If you write zero's to the entire HDD then it overrights all the data and there simply isn't anything to recover no matter what device you try to employ.
 
Im upgraded my laptop harddrive to 16mb cache to replace my 2mb 4200prm 80gb. I deleted the windows partition as well as the partition dell puts on there through the blue windows boot screen and Im sellling it on ebay. Am I ok as far as the buyer not being able to retrieve information?
 
Nirad9er said:
Im upgraded my laptop harddrive to 16mb cache to replace my 2mb 4200prm 80gb. I deleted the windows partition as well as the partition dell puts on there through the blue windows boot screen and Im sellling it on ebay. Am I ok as far as the buyer not being able to retrieve information?
Click to expand...

For your average user yes. But the data is not wiped until you overright it so simply deleting it doesn't destroy the data. If you had anything sensitive on there then i would zero-fill the HDD.
 
deleting all the files - will stop noobs from seeing them, but will not stop people who can use a sector/hex editor, or decent undelete software

writing all zeros to the drive, will stop everyone from reading it *except* data recovery experts and the CIA

why? I wont go into details, but even when a drive has been all zeroed out, extremely sensitive equipment can detect the old data (ghosting)

gubmint standards reccomends alternate all 1's and 0's like 3 times to ensure no data recovery is possible
 
Steel Chicken said:
gubmint standards reccomends alternate all 1's and 0's like 3 times to ensure no data recovery is possible
Click to expand...
I have a co-worker who decided to do "Spring Cleaning" on his Apple Laptop, and decided to run a low-level format where it does exactly what you've just mentioned. Each pass writes an entirley different set of 1's and 0's to the drive. He, ended up (on purpose) clicking 7 passes. I believe he was on Pass 4 (2nd day) last time I checked. He is probably done now, but it was rather funny.
 
yeah theres level of paranoia that just is not necessary for todays standards.

i mean sure, if your a secret agent, write 0's and 1's 20 times, then put the harddrive in a giant magnet, then melt it down with concentrated acid

for everyone else, a single pass of 0's or 1's is fine.
 
Steel Chicken said:
deleting all the files - will stop noobs from seeing them, but will not stop people who can use a sector/hex editor, or decent undelete software

writing all zeros to the drive, will stop everyone from reading it *except* data recovery experts and the CIA

why? I wont go into details, but even when a drive has been all zeroed out, extremely sensitive equipment can detect the old data (ghosting)

gubmint standards reccomends alternate all 1's and 0's like 3 times to ensure no data recovery is possible
Click to expand...

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Once you zero out a drive there is nothing left. No super secret mystery government scanning equipment can read your data after that. I think I trust a specialist in the field working for the government over "Steel Chicken" on HardOCP who thinks government spy satellites can read your data unless you wrap your hard drive in tin foil.
 
cunnelatio said:
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Once you zero out a drive there is nothing left. No super secret mystery government scanning equipment can read your data after that. I think I trust a specialist in the field working for the government over "Steel Chicken" on HardOCP who thinks government spy satellites can read your data unless you wrap your hard drive in tin foil.
Click to expand...

Not true. Even if you "zero out the drive" it sometimes is still possible to recover the data.. what has to be done is take the drive apart, then slightly offset the heads from what you had before and you might be able to read the data that used to be there. (as the magnetic media may still have the data "around" where the head used to write, arn't magnets fun?)

If you zero out the drives several times, it gets less and less likely that any signature of the data remains on the drives though.

This is only done by people like the FBI in big cases, as it doesn't always work, and is time consuming, expensive, and destroys the drive. (seal broken, the drive will not last after that)

==>Lazn
 
cunnelatio said:
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Once you zero out a drive there is nothing left. No super secret mystery government scanning equipment can read your data after that. I think I trust a specialist in the field working for the government over "Steel Chicken" on HardOCP who thinks government spy satellites can read your data unless you wrap your hard drive in tin foil.
Click to expand...


Wow thats pretty funny actually, im not even offended.
Do some reasearch though before you call bogus.

There actually is a barely detectedable residual image left on the platters. Even with overwrite. Harddrives do not store info like RAM does in invidiual binary cells, but rather in magnetic domains. Because of the way harddrives work (mechanical nature), this is not a precise process. The domains are larger than they need to be so the read write head can pickup the stored magnetic image. With multiple writes, these areas often overlap each other to a small degree, but not large enough to cause an error. using extremely precise and multiple/pass read-write heads, its possible to pickup overwritten data, similar to a process with old tape systems. This is why the Department of Defense made DOD 5220.22-M, which basically says use a degausser for secret stuff. Using a degauser will wipe the entire platter clean period. Simply overwriting the data may not. However, a single pass of 0's then 1's is more than sufficent in most cases.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/522022m_0195/cp8.pdf

Like I said, i didnot say people had to be paranoid. A simple one pass of alernating bits will be fine. But a lab with a Magnetic Force Microscope and lots of time and money coul still get data off of it.

But hey, beleive what you want.
 
Haha, cunnelatio. SNAP.

Cool information all the same. I knew the government had ways of doing, so thanks for all that info, very interesting. I would wonder how much one of those machines cost! :eek:
 
Steel Chicken said:
Like I said, i didnot say people had to be paranoid. A simple one pass of alernating bits will be fine. But a lab with a Magnetic Force Microscope and lots of time and money coul still get data off of it.
Click to expand...

/me shudders @ the guy sent to read even the partition table of the drive w/ a MFM. . . . .. poor poor person. . ..
 
no one said it was likely, only possible.
i read an article that a MFM could be setup to work on spinning platters (assuming they were physically undamaged) but so far no one has admited to doing it.
 
Next thing you guys will have those black silent choppers hovering over your houses just to see what’s on those drives.

Norton used to make a “wipe disk” program that the government “thought” was good enough. They have now upgraded to something different.

Zeros should be sufficient for most people, do a few passes just to be sure.

Heh, unless it’s your wife or girl friend buying your drive…..then be really careful lol. ;)
 
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