WoW PvP Honor System Info

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kick@ss

Supreme [H]ardness
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http://wow-europe.com/en/pvp/pvp-article-part2.html

It's on the European site as WoW Europe is getting it first (I guess they finally get to beta test something for a change).

Anyways, what I like about it:
- The rewards actually don't suck judging by the shaman's armor set.
- Much cheaper epic mounts.
- Less honor for repeat kills will somewhat deter players from farming lesser occupied areas for honor points.
- You will get honor points if you're a in a group that helps kill someone even if you just heal.
- No dishonorable points for killing players much lower than you will help prevent being zerged and not being able to attack first out of fear of gaining dishonorable kills.

What I don't like:
- Having to maintain a constant PvP rank to wear the items you get is just plain stupid. What if you go on vacation? You'll come back and have absolutely no armor left to wear. VERY poorly thought out and I wouldn't be surprised if this changes.
- Splitting up the honor gained by who did what damage is a fairly poor way of distributing honor. It should be split up evenly between all people. A rogue might completely annihilate some enemies and gain a majority of the honor points while the priest/paladin/shaman/druid who healed the rogue and made that killing possible gets the shaft (but will at least get some points).
- It seems like it will be mainly high level rewards (once again judging by the Shaman's armor), so those who PvP frequently at lower levels will basically receive a minimal reward, if any, for their efforts. I don't know all the details about the system and the rewards may scale to your level, but we'll have to see.

Other thoughts:
- They shouldn't give dishonorable points for killing trivial, non-aggro NPCs in and around towns (I can see it for the random wandering NPC or the NPCs in caves). One of the goals of a raid (and war) is to destroy shit, not selectively pick your targets. Also, killing things like the flight masters is always a target of a raid. When a town is raided the NPCs should be killable and everyone in that town should have to feel the negative consequences of it (not being able to sell, not being able to turn in quests, etc.). This makes defending a town actually have a purpose. Also, being unable to attack without fear of gaining dishonor would lead to some obvious exploits. People could hide near non-aggro NPCs and would be "safe" from AOE attacks because the attacker wouldn't want to gain dishonor.
 
I think the damage thing only comes into play when its 2 groups of people, or 2 non-grouped players attacking the same person.

For example, if me and you are grouped, we each get 50% of the honor points.

If me and you are not grouped, and I do more damage (hence, more work), I get more honor points.

It makes sense, that way if I kill someone 99% of the way, and you get 1 hit in, we don't split it. That would suck for me, almost a "kill steal" scenario.

Finally, I agree 100% on losing things if you lose the PVP rank. Thats just stupid. I mean, some things I can agree with, like the teleport to your capitol thing, thats ok to lose. But to lose ARMOR, well...
 
Direwolf20 said:
Finally, I agree 100% on losing things if you lose the PVP rank. Thats just stupid. I mean, some things I can agree with, like the teleport to your capitol thing, thats ok to lose. But to lose ARMOR, well...
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I think this is doubly true considering the stacking they're discussing. There are roughly 1000 active horde players on my realm, so that's 1 person with the top rank (based on Blizz' sample numbers). 1 person! Why buy the gear if you can't use it when you fall to #2 out of 1000?
 
lomn75 said:
I think this is doubly true considering the stacking they're discussing. There are roughly 1000 active horde players on my realm, so that's 1 person with the top rank (based on Blizz' sample numbers). 1 person! Why buy the gear if you can't use it when you fall to #2 out of 1000?
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Yea, bad idea definately. However, I have a feeling that the gear is designed around not many people having it. Like they made it really powerful, with the express intent that most people wouldn't be wearing the highest stuff.

If they Don't do something like this, then eventually the markets will be flooded with this kinda gear. All you gotta do is get high enough once, and then have it forever. Down the line, it'll be the only thing anyone is wearing, because I bet most of it is better than a lot of the currently available gear.

Maybe they should make it so that if you drop 3-4 ranks, you lose stuff. So if you buy Rank 14 gear, and drop to rank 9, then you can't wear it anymore. Something so that you have to earn the right to keep wearing it, but not to the extreme that it seems to be now.
 
Direwolf20 said:
Maybe they should make it so that if you drop 3-4 ranks, you lose stuff. So if you buy Rank 14 gear, and drop to rank 9, then you can't wear it anymore.
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I'd be cool with this, too.

//edit: "And really, the preview isn't out-and-out specific enough to rule out this scenario being the one already in place."
I take that back. I looked more closely at the tooltips, and the gear bought at rank 10 requires rank 10. It'd take some wrangling, but a split "rank 10 to buy/equip + rank 7 to wear" would be preferable.
 
lomn75 said:
I'd be cool with this, too. And really, the preview isn't out-and-out specific enough to rule out this scenario being the one already in place.
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I think it is, looking at the items called "Champions headgear" etc, it says "Requires: Champion".
 
There is still plenty of time to change this. While yes, they will be rolling it out to Europe first the problems inherrent with the system will (hopefully) be identified and streamlined before the US release.

All points are valid and coming from a Priest who just respec'd to Disc/Holy again for instance raiding, I'm not going to be doing near as much damage I used to in Shadow spec. So the grouping percentage is very helpful.

That shaman set looks badass.
 
yeah, those are all very cool, and very good in my opinion, except the losing what you have bought once your rank gets taken by other players, that's definately stupid.
 
You know, re-reading what the thing says, once you get into the higher ranks, I think it will be less and less volatile. So when you are rank 11, its gonna be pretty hard to fall to rank 10, unless you completely stop PVPing.
 
Direwolf20 said:
You know, re-reading what the thing says, once you get into the higher ranks, I think it will be less and less volatile. So when you are rank 11, its gonna be pretty hard to fall to rank 10, unless you completely stop PVPing.
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What if you go on vacation? I can't imagine a "hero" losing honor because he took a vacation for 2 weeks to the point where he is no longer deserving of wearing certain armor.
 
kick@ss said:
What if you go on vacation? I can't imagine a "hero" losing honor because he took a vacation for 2 weeks to the point where he is no longer deserving of wearing certain armor.
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Yea, but when you come back, if you were THAT good that you got as high as you did, you'll get it back relatively soon. I think if it was like a 1-2 range before losing it, that would be good.
 
so the people who play the most (12 y/o's) with too much time, big mouths and big ego's, will get all the good stuff, heh

seriously, id like to see how they implement this. people who play more should get cooler gizmos, but levels that drop? what happens if a server is down for the weekend?
 
Direwolf20 said:
Yea, but when you come back, if you were THAT good that you got as high as you did, you'll get it back relatively soon. I think if it was like a 1-2 range before losing it, that would be good.
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No matter how good you are it's hard to make a comeback after being gone for 2 weeks.
 
Steel Chicken said:
so the people who play the most (12 y/o's) with too much time, big mouths and big ego's, will get all the good stuff, heh

seriously, id like to see how they implement this. people who play more should get cooler gizmos, but levels that drop? what happens if a server is down for the weekend?
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It seems to me that the levels fluctuate based on other peoples' earnings/losses. So if the servers are down for a weekend, the ranks would all stay exactly the same.

Like theres 5 people at the top rank, if Person A works their way up to the top, and defeats the 5th person (B), that person (B) goes down to the 2nd highest rank and person A is now in the highest category. I may be wrong, just speculation.
 
kick@ss said:
No matter how good you are it's hard to make a comeback after being gone for 2 weeks.
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It all depends on how the system is setup ;). Who knows what kind of behind the scenes math goes on.
 
Direwolf20 said:
Like theres 5 people at the top rank, if Person A works their way up to the top, and defeats the 5th person (B), that person (B) goes down to the 2nd highest rank and person A is now in the highest category. I may be wrong, just speculation.
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That's my understanding, too.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm all for the bottom-heavy method. I think it's great that the top ranks are very exclusive (even though I'll probably never hit them). I just don't like the gear drop bit.

OTOH, we haven't seen those epic items (perhaps pimp enough to warrant a heavy restriction), and the mid-level officers will encompass a larger player range, so maybe it won't be tough to maintain a given level.
 
You will not have to worry about the damn honor system as they cannot keep the servers up long enough for this to be any issue... :mad:
 
Uhh, that's cheap.

What the fuck is the point of a dishonorable kill if it doens't penalize or take away from your points?

How the hell is it going to make any high lv's stop ganking really really low lvs???

That , I thought, was one of the MAIN focuses of this "pvp honor/dishonor" system.

So basically there's still going to be no utter reason for a lv 60 to not attack a lv 20 and kill him in one hit, it won't hurt him in any way at all.
 
it says it still keeps track of dishonorable kills. Just because there is no effect now doesn't mean there won't be an effect in the future. I would hope that this kind of thing wouldn't be "grandfathered" either.
 
Evil Scooter said:
You will not have to worry about the damn honor system as they cannot keep the servers up long enough for this to be any issue... :mad:
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Can we have one thread to talk about something other than how well they keep their servers up?
 
QHalo said:
Can we have one thread to talk about something other than how well they keep their servers up?
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I'll second that.

I don't know how much i'm going to be partaking in this honor system thing. It seems like it will just put too much competition between players of the same faction. I'm all for competition, but I'm for it more in the realm of a FPS. I just don't want to end up sweating over whether or not I'm going to go up in rank or down in rank when the numbers are compiled each week. I certainly don't expect to ever be in the 6+ ranks. I'll be happy playing the role of the grunt.
 
So soon as you get your new equipment you are going to immediately vendor your other equipment? The "super" equipment is a privledge and not a right. It is meant for the top players to wear who consistantly strive for end game excellence. If you have any sorta matter in that skull of yours you will keep your old equipment and wear the "honor" equipment as it is available.

If you want all the super l33t gear of any game...find a single player game and hack it. I for one would be pissed as hell if I put in a ton of "quality" time into a game and then had joe blow who plays 1 hour a week have the same equipment.

As for the 12 y/o getting all the l33t gear. So what...has your quality of life been "reduced". In EQ1 there was maybe 1 or 2 guilds on the entire server who could reach end game within a reasonable period of time. The people who tend to play the most will get the most. Skill can only take you so far when time can become more important.

Still, the honor equipment is nice but not that great. You can get within 10-15% of those stats with greens.

Also, Blizzard never said they would NEVER have dishonable kills count against you for players. They said they wouldn't do it right now because it didn't seem appropriate. It is called balance and since the MMOG community is volatile in their actions they need to have a fairly open system at first until they can figure out how the players will use it and then tweak accordingly.

But this is the typical "it doesn't always benefit me so it is bad attitude". Think beyond your little world and realize there is a bigger world out their.

-tReP
 
I agree trep. Hell I have two sets of gear for my priest, healing and stamina gear that I'm working on. Just because the coolest new gear comes doesn't mean I'm vendoring what I have. That's what I have a bank and 5 16 slot bags in there to hold items for :p
 
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