would a nice soundcard make a difference here?

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biztyke

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right now im using my onboard realtek HD audio with These speakers.

now, i consider myself an audiophile, in the sense that i can easily tell the difference in sound systems and really appreciate quality sound(at least my ears seem to :) ). this particular setup is sub par for me, but my question is if i buy a decent soundcard(x-meridian, or maybe the cheaper sondigo inferno?) will my sound improve at all with these speakers?

basically, all i want is a quick fix *for now* because i plan to later invest in some higher end separate audio components to replace or extend my pc sound setup. should i wait till i can afford it all in one go, or will the sound card make a difference now?

and if im gonna go for a new card, are my choices good? any suggestions? i do play games now and then, but its far from my primary concern. im mainly thinking about music and movies.
 
save your money, the fastest way to get better sound is better speakers. Those speaker wont sound any better with a $1000 sound card. Not trying to be mean
 
i disagree- realtek onboard audio sounds like dogs farting. even a cheap soundcard would sound much better

an x-fi for gaming, for music-i believe the via envy chipset is recommended
 
In my experience, speakers are the least important for sound quality, sound card/decoder/DACs the most, and amplifiers somewhere in-between.

I would highly recommend a new sound card - if you don't want to spend a lot, I think you'll be quite happy with a cheap Audigy 2 from newegg.com.

I owned a $200 5.1 Creative setup (don't recall the model) and I upgraded from the Audigy 1 to the Audigy 2 ZS - I was AMAZED at the difference.

I make no guarantees, but if I were you I would spend around $50 on a new sound card; I think it will work wonders.

Good luck!
-Garret
 
speakers are least important in sound quality???? you are kidding me right? Look at the speakers he linked. NOTHING in the world will make those speakers sound better. I mean if you have a nice set of speakers, then yes buy a good sound card. He is just wasting his money. A new sound card will not sound any better on 'those' speakers
 
calvieee said:
speakers are least important in sound quality???? you are kidding me right? Look at the speakers he linked. NOTHING in the world will make those speakers sound better. I mean if you have a nice set of speakers, then yes buy a good sound card. He is just wasting his money. A new sound card will not sound any better on 'those' speakers
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Yeah I agree, speakers are the least important HahaHahaHahaHaha . . . .

OK, so I go to staples and pickup a $20 set of acoustic 2.1 system 10watt! And spend $200 sound card... It must sound good right? :rolleyes:


Get better speakers OP, receiver + bookshelfs + subwoofer. The HD audio is pretty decent for onboard.
 
I noticed a fairly big difference in sound quality when going from onboard to an X-Fi even with my cheap Plantronics headset. Better speakers / headphones will improve the sound even more.

If the speakers are ok to begin with you can make them sound better with a better card. Even with the cheap headset I got tighter bass and smoother highs when compared to my onboard. And when I got my newer better headset the difference from onboard to the X-Fi was even more noticeable.
 
The speakers the OP has retail for $100 - they are not $20 throwaways from J-Mart.

And yes, even on those speakers, a $50 sound card will probably give a great improvement in sound quality. I can say with certainty that my $200 Creative set, and my $300 Logitech set, both sound WAY better on the Audigy 2 compared to Audigy 1. And since onboard sound is usually more like Sound Blaser Live quality, THAT is the weakest link.

And to the turds attacking my post, CONTRIBUTE SOMETHING TO THE OP.

Finally, if the OP only wants to spend another $100 or so, better speakers than he has are out of the question - he'd have to spend at least $200 for a significantly improved set.
 
OP: if you are still unsure, go to best buy, buy an X-Fi (one of the sub$100 models) and try it out. You can always return it if it is unsatisfying!
 
i had creative 4.1 set -'soundworks' -a 100.00 set at the time- they sounded much better when i got a sb live over the cheapie card i had before

i now have logitech z-680's- but to be honest i can rarely crank them up to appreciate the greater power over my old soundworks set

in other words get a new soundcard-onboard audio absolutely sucks- its not like u have throwaway speakers-i've tried onboard audio in every mobo i've had- and theres been a lot- and none of them even came close to my old sb live value- to say nothing of my current x-fi

why would anybody hook up a nice amp and speaker system to onboard? better to spend your funds on a balanced system within ur budget - speakers + sound card
 
ourfpshero said:
i had creative 4.1 set -'soundworks' -a 100.00 set at the time- they sounded much better when i got a sb live over the cheapie card i had before

i now have logitech z-680's- but to be honest i can rarely crank them up to appreciate the greater power over my old soundworks set

in other words get a new soundcard-onboard audio absolutely sucks- its not like u have throwaway speakers-i've tried onboard audio in every mobo i've had- and theres been a lot- and none of them even came close to my old sb live value- to say nothing of my current x-fi

why would anybody hook up a nice amp and speaker system to onboard? better to spend your funds on a balanced system within ur budget - speakers + sound card
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QFT

ourfpshero: I have the same Logitechs - those z680s are pretty sweet. And for the price, they're amazing! Sadly, I live in an apartment so I never get to crank them. Someday I am going to turn them so loud they blow my ear drums out FTK!
 
Garret Jax said:
The speakers the OP has retail for $100 - they are not $20 throwaways from J-Mart.
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Ummm...actually, yeah, they basically are.

90w over SEVEN satellites? And at $87 for the set - forgetting the sub+amp entirely - that means you are looking at less than $12.50 a speaker. And, realistically, the sub+amp is probably $20-$25 of that cost, meaning those are about $9.50 a speaker.

So...yes, absolutely, two of them would run for $20 at "J-Mart".

Sorry to say, but those speakers are absolutely shite, and nothing at all will make them sound any better.

AND ALL THAT SAID...yes "Realtek onboard" did suck for a very VERY long time. However, the current "Realtek HD Audio" - with the current drivers - is actually an impressive offering. No, it's not equal to a standalone soundcard, but it's a definite improvement over previous generations of onboard. From a lot of experience with it, I'd put it easily over Audigy 1 quality - although not up to Audigy 2zs or X-Fi.

Improving his speakers will make a WORLD of difference. That would absolutely be the best place to invest some money to improve the audio experience.

Recommendation for a budget: Klipsch Promedia Ultra 2.0 (they are IMPRESSIVE sounding for their price)

Recommendation for a little more dough (but they are worth it): Swan M200
 
Here's the thing - the OP wants a temporary solution and will be pumping more cash into his system down the road.

If he buys a good sound card now (easily less than $150), it will still be good when he replaces his new speakers, and he'll only have spent a reasonable sum.


Speakers, on the other hand, get VERY expensive, so if he's planning on doing a big upgrade down the road, even a $200 - $300 speaker system he buys now will need to be replaced. BUT if he gets a new (good) sound card, it won't have to be replaced for a long time, and it will be nicely augmented with more expensive speakers when the OP pulls the trigger.
 
Op, do not listen to the stupid tool from above. I go from $20 cheapass speakers to Creative fps2000 to klipsh 4.1 to Axiom speakers now. Every upgrade sounded 10x better. Better speaker is the only option if you want to HEAR the difference. During these upgrades, i have had many different sound cards ( sb 32, sb live, turtle beach, sb audigy 2zs, hda mystique) The sound quality change is VERY VERY minor. Hardly noticable, the onboard sound is pretty decent these day. Save the money on sound card and put it toward a better speakers.
 
Well, this has gotten out of hand.

The OP isn't looking for new speakers. He's wondering if an investment in a sound card now is worth it, as opposed to later. My opinion is that Garret isn't wrong, though his opinions do disagree with the great majority of people you'll talk to (my contention is that speakers and the room are equally critical, then the amplifier, then the rest of the components of the signal chain - in order of most critical to least critical).

Given that we're nearing the border of a transitional period right now (from S/PDIF and analog to HDMI, and from PCI to PCIe), I don't think buying a sound card now makes sense, unless it's one of the less-expensive ones like the AV-710 or the BlueGears bEnspirer/Sondigo Inferno/HT Omega Striker. They might make a slight improvement, but prepare to throw it away once you upgrade the speakers for something more modern.

The Inspirers are dreadful, but a well-trained ear might still be able to detect nuances in them if they're pushed loud enough. I think any sound card upgrade would just end up giving the OP the belief that there's an improvement more so than any actual improvement, just as an audiophile might believe that high-dollar speaker cable completely revolutionizes their system, when in reality, the improvement is entirely 99.98% psychosomatic.

The bottom line? I think it's somewhat wasteful unless the OP is going through a period of gearlust. If a $40 sound card satisfies it for a while, that's not too wasteful.
 
Thanks for being reasonable phide. You make a good point about the "transition" period we're in. Which stinks for me because I am in the market for a new sound card ;-)
 
well supposedly the best way to upgrade is to start upgrading the speakers/headphones then the source, then amp, then cables

to the OP: an alien DAC (somewhere around 50$) should be better than an onboard solution
 
Garret Jax said:
In my experience, speakers are the least important for sound quality, sound card/decoder/DACs the most, and amplifiers somewhere in-between.

I would highly recommend a new sound card - if you don't want to spend a lot, I think you'll be quite happy with a cheap Audigy 2 from newegg.com.

I owned a $200 5.1 Creative setup (don't recall the model) and I upgraded from the Audigy 1 to the Audigy 2 ZS - I was AMAZED at the difference.

I make no guarantees, but if I were you I would spend around $50 on a new sound card; I think it will work wonders.

Good luck!
-Garret
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K I usually don't just blatantly flame people. But this is BY FAR THE STUPIDEST THING I'VE HEARD ABOUT AUDIO IN A WHILE.
 
Flame away - but what part is stupid?

A 5.1 $200 system sounding way better by swapping an Audigy 1 for an Audigy 2...

sounds like upgrading to even an inexpensive sound card did the trick! It was a NIGHT and DAY difference.
 
calvieee said:
why dont you go learn some manner first mr tool. who's the tool that call people TURDS first?
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lol - people were rude and obnoxious responding to my initial, friendly post, so as Rambo would say: "You drew first blood!"

WOOT FOR RAMBO!
 
Garret Jax said:
sounds like upgrading to even an inexpensive sound card did the trick! It was a NIGHT and DAY difference.
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You're probably aware you won't get many respectful comments here from saying something like that. I hear the same thing far too often -- a so-called "night and day difference" -- and it's absolutely meaningless to me. A night and day difference is when you swap a set of JBL Creature speakers for an $8,000 pair of single-ended triode vacuum monoblocks and a $3,000 vacuum pre driving B&W Nautilus 802s. That's what I would classify as yielding a "night and day difference", though I'd still be very hesitant to actually say it.

Your opinion has either been noted or instantly dismissed. There's no reason to cloud an already murky, subjectivity-oriented debate with Rambo-related comebacks and absurd commentary.
 
well ive never been personally blown away by audio...not as if when i opened the box for my new LCD...or when i first booted my computer

so i cant vouch much for being Night and Day
besides that upgrade in source isnt much in the first place...i might believe you if you said i came from my audigy to a benchmark 1 with balanced outputs....
 
be sure to get at least an audigy 2zs- has a hardware equalizer-so do the x-fi's.
the general problem w/onboard is very low cost codecs, it sits on the motherboard where it picks up a lot of electrical 'noise', and very low power output-usually 1/2 that of good souncards.
a lot of onboard has noticable hiss and buzz from mobo electrical interference and they sound 'flat'- muddled bass and highs. u wouldnt notice this in 10.00 speakers but anything better (or just about any headphones)and it becomes VERY apparent.

dont be taken in by "HD" intel or realtek- they are still 25 cent codecs on a mobo. next we can argue how built in video is great for graphics
 
phide said:
You're probably aware you won't get many respectful comments here from saying something like that. I hear the same thing far too often -- a so-called "night and day difference" -- and it's absolutely meaningless to me. A night and day difference is when you swap a set of JBL Creature speakers for an $8,000 pair of single-ended triode vacuum monoblocks and a $3,000 vacuum pre driving B&W Nautilus 802s. That's what I would classify as yielding a "night and day difference", though I'd still be very hesitant to actually say it.

Your opinion has either been noted or instantly dismissed. There's no reason to cloud an already murky, subjectivity-oriented debate with Rambo-related comebacks and absurd commentary.
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You didn't really take the Rambo comment seriously, did you? It's a tongue-in-cheek line!
 
Seems others have had a similar experience when upgrading their sound card. For instance:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16829271002

Read those reviews (there are tons more just like it on [H]) - people with midrange and even low end speakers replacing onboard sound or Creative Audigy with a quality sound card and getting a great improvement in sound quality.

What sounds good is a mix of the objective and subjective for sure, but which do you think is more likely: (1) everyone is LYING about how great their "crappy" speakers sound with their new sound card, or (2) as the old programming saying goes, "garbage in, garbage out" -> crummy sound card, crummy sound - end of story. Upgrade the sound card, and the weakest link shifts to another component (e.g. amp or speakers). Upgrade the speakers, and if your weakest link was the sound card (like many, many people with old Creative crap or onboard sound) you're left with a great speaker/amp system getting low grade audio inputs and thus producing low grade acoustical vomit.
 
Garret Jax said:
Seems others have had a similar experience when upgrading their sound card. For instance:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16829271002

Read those reviews (there are tons more just like it on [H]) - people with midrange and even low end speakers replacing onboard sound or Creative Audigy with a quality sound card and getting a great improvement in sound quality.

What sounds good is a mix of the objective and subjective for sure, but which do you think is more likely: (1) everyone is LYING about how great their "crappy" speakers sound with their new sound card, or (2) as the old programming saying goes, "garbage in, garbage out" -> crummy sound card, crummy sound - end of story. Upgrade the sound card, and the weakest link shifts to another component (e.g. amp or speakers). Upgrade the speakers, and if your weakest link was the sound card (like many, many people with old Creative crap or onboard sound) you're left with a great speaker/amp system getting low grade audio inputs and thus producing low grade acoustical vomit.
Click to expand...

That's call a "placebo effect". You can buy the best of the best sound card, but with those cheap speakers...they might sound 10% better if you are lucky. Or he can upgrade to some decent speakers and they will sound 100 percent better even with his onboard sound. Stop trying to defend yourself. I have a sb audigy 2 zs too. It doesnt sound any better than a $30 sound card.
 
lol, did anyone notice those speakers don't even have a separate tweeter? lol.....crap.

No you will not notice a difference by upgrading the sound card from the HD audio onboard with those creative speakers. Maybe if you had the gigaworks series, maybe.

Agreed with calvieee, placebo effect is right.

And *chuckles* @ the guy that pointed out newegg reviews haha.. sad

To the op, if you're going to upgrade the sound card, might as well do it now and save up for better speakers. But it usually go speakers than source if you already have a "decent" source to get you by.
 
calvieee said:
That's call a "placebo effect". You can buy the best of the best sound card, but with those cheap speakers...they might sound 10% better if you are lucky. Or he can upgrade to some decent speakers and they will sound 100 percent better even with his onboard sound. Stop trying to defend yourself. I have a sb audigy 2 zs too. It doesnt sound any better than a $30 sound card.
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I was seriously considering what you had to say until that last line - on two separate 5.1 speaker systems (z680s, and a $225 set of Creative 5.1s') the upgrade from Audigy vanilla to Audigy 2 ZS was obvious and impressive - and VASTLY superior to my motherboard's onbaord sound system. It's absurd for you to speak as any kind of an audiophile or with any authority whatsoever and then say that a $30 sound card vs. an Audigy is an indistinct tie.

Certainly the placebo effect could account for this phenomenon - as could the "I just spent good money on this new card, it had BETTER be an improvement" effect. But I am speaking first hand, and I have heard a wide range of audio setups. My system blows compared to my younger brothers (he worked at Best Buy and got a real nice $3000 (retail) setup for dirt cheap with the discount) - and I have no foolish pride about my sound system; I didn't build it, I just bought it. However, my ears don't lie - I heard a dramatic difference when testing out my new system - even without high-end speakers. Hell, I even did an A-B comparison (was building a PC for someone and gave him my original Audigy). I know it scares you but it was... wait for it...

Night and Day.

BTW, I am not defending myself, my character isn't on the line it's freakin [H] for christ's sake :)

Feel free to tell me that I'm full of it, that I am imagining things, that my hearing is bad, that I've been duped, etc. That somehow YOU know that I am wrong - that I did NOT get a major boost in sound quality from the upgrade. Yeah, preach it! Who needs first hand accounts when you have unwarranted naysayers guiding you?

lol - you are a character Calviee
 
aZn_plyR said:
And *chuckles* @ the guy that pointed out newegg reviews haha.. sad
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I had no idea people on [H] were so stuck up and rude - care to explain what's funny about the newegg reviews? Are you implying that they've been doctored? Or are you implying that the reviewers are noobs who don't know anything?

Can't really figure out why your chuckling, but I'm always up for a good laugh - do share!!!
 
aZn_plyR said:
o the op, if you're going to upgrade the sound card, might as well do it now and save up for better speakers. But it usually go speakers than source if you already have a "decent" source to get you by.
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Well, at least you gave the OP the same great advice I gave him.
 
ok, fellas.......calm down, didnt think id spark up a heated debate.

thanks for all the input, it gave me a few different perspectives for sure. basically, within the next 6 months i will be getting a new high end sound card, and an entire component/speaker setup. i just thought that since i will be buying a new card later, if i can hear a difference ill get one now since the card is the cheapest part of my whole plan.

but since this speaker setup was a stop-gap solution in the first place i might as well keep it that way for now and wait till i can go for the whole thing.
 
aZn_plyR said:
lol, did anyone notice those speakers don't even have a separate tweeter? lol.....crap.

No you will not notice a difference by upgrading the sound card from the HD audio onboard with those creative speakers. Maybe if you had the gigaworks series, maybe.

Agreed with calvieee, placebo effect is right.

And *chuckles* @ the guy that pointed out newegg reviews haha.. sad

To the op, if you're going to upgrade the sound card, might as well do it now and save up for better speakers. But it usually go speakers than source if you already have a "decent" source to get you by.
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separate tweeter leads to phasing and overall frequency response problems in the nearfield, and requires pretty significant engineering (physical or electronic baffle step compensation) in order to produce a reasonable mixing of sound at the crossover frequency, and to prevent things like "beaming".

Sure, tweeters in the nearfield CAN be good, if designed correctly, unfortunately it's my opinion that designed correctly would eliminate most of the lower-end offerings and probably put you at minimum in the $500+ price range, possibly more.
 
I believe they go hand in hand. If you buy a new sound card, you should look into buying new speakers as well. You will be able to tell somewhat of a difference now, but new speakers will serve you better in the long run. The vice-versa also applies. If you buy new speakers, you won't be able to appreciate its full capabilities until you buy a decent sound card.

Since you did say the speakers are a stop-gap solution, get a new sound card.
 
Garret Jax said:
Certainly the placebo effect could account for this phenomenon - as could the "I just spent good money on this new card, it had BETTER be an improvement" effect.
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I'd have to assume the latter in this case. This seems like a possible case of you involuntarily justifying the purchase by fabricating an improvement you refer to as "night and day". It's certainly nothing to be ashamed of, as serious deep-pocketed audiophiles fall victim to the same routine (Nordost cables). It's not necessarily a bad thing, as any improvement, real or imagined, is an improvement to you, and you're the one that made the purchase, but it's not necessarily a good thing, either.

Yes, the source is important. Its duty is to convert meaningless digital data into an audio stream without sacrificing that curious "emotion" quality, and that's not an easy task. There are some that will spend upwards of $10,000 on a stereo DAC to do it. Still, a $30 sound card can hit closer to that "purity" mark than a $5,000 pair of speakers. Most sound cards, and even on-board solutions, do a favorable job of D/A conversion, yielding very low THD, fairly accurate frequency response and surprisingly high SNRs. The amplifier takes in this fairly pure signal and essentially destroys it. Then, your speakers discard 90% to 99% of the energy it takes in, which gives you a pretty good idea at how far away we are from being able to do a satisfactory job of recreating a fairly simple electrical signal. It seems pessimistic, but every speaker ever made, from an engineering standpoint, is an absolute disaster.

Fryguy8 said:
Sure, tweeters in the nearfield CAN be good, if designed correctly, unfortunately it's my opinion that designed correctly would eliminate most of the lower-end offerings and probably put you at minimum in the $500+ price range, possibly more.
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The GigaWorks 750s actually do a reasonable job. They're currently the most expensive PC speaker set you can buy, but it actually does show in its performance. I couldn't say whether or not a coaxial design would make more sense for these little things, but the component driver arrangement seems to work fine.
 
phide said:
I'd have to assume the latter in this case. This seems like a possible case of you involuntarily justifying the purchase by fabricating an improvement you refer to as "night and day". It's certainly nothing to be ashamed of, as serious deep-pocketed audiophiles fall victim to the same routine (Nordost cables). It's not necessarily a bad thing, as any improvement, real or imagined, is an improvement to you, and you're the one that made the purchase, but it's not necessarily a good thing, either.
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I can't believe you are all insisting that you know that I didn't hear a great improvement in sound. You weren't there - are you saying it's not possible? Wow, that is arrogant. Without hearing the A/B comparison, without hearing anything, you are SO SURE that there is no difference that you call me a liar for saying there is.

As for the theories, in my case, neither applies - I got the new sound card for free as part of a deal (sold my old audio card to the guy I was building the PC for and got a new one same price) - and I, like you, did NOT expect an improvement in sound quality. Audigy 1 vs. Audigy 2 - not THAT different on paper. But I was pleasantly surprised...

NIGHT AND FUCKING DAY.
 
Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said you were a liar, I was merely suggesting the possibility that the improvement you believe you heard was fabricated. If you didn't buy the card, and went into the situation with an open mind, then it certainly lends credence to your claims, and it helps to back up your opinion.

Very few are aware of how powerful the mind is in these types of situations, which is why I pointed it out the possibility. I used words like "assume" and "possible" for a reason.
 
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