Workstation options?

[jfharper]

My old dell precision 670 is giving me problems once again...so I just can't trust it for my freelance 3D work I do using 3ds max. I've already replaced the HDD (2 years ago), mother board and power supply, but I'm thinking its time for a change. It has dual xeon 3.6 CPUs, a Quadro fx 4400, which still work fine...the hard drive (I think) started going out so I went to my backup system.

I render using a 6 node render farm, so the workstation just has to handle the 3d work and some rendering, and video editing and encoding.

Is it possible to use some components off the workstation for a new workstation build or should I just put together something new from scratch? The old workstation power has been enough for me...still in 32 bit, which is fine...can a new WS build be about the same power as the dell for around $1K?

 

[Dangman]

Probably reuse the video card but pretty much have to build the PC from scratch, including WIndows 8.1.

Please answer the stickied "ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS FIRST!" so that we can help you better.

 

[jfharper]

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing?
3ds max usage...I'm using an older version which is fine.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
$1000, including shipping

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
Central California Coast Area

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
Case, power supply, motherboard, processor(s) maybe, RAM, video card (maybe), SSD or regular HDD, DVD Drive.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Me current dell precision workstation 670 has dual 3.6 xeons, 3GB RAM DDR2, Quadro fx 4400 video card...if I can reuse any of these parts that would be great. My current rig is fast enough for my work, I just need it dependable. The motherboard on the dell supports scsi and sata 1 which makes it tough to replace parts, and the hdd speed is out dated. Current power supply is 850w on the dell I think...can't be reused I think...I'd like to reduce this to save electricity and reduce heat in my office. I current use 2 2405FP 24" LCDs, that I would also like to replace later, but not now and not included with this budget...they will have their own budget of ~$500 (maybe increase to $600 ok) combined for LEDs.

6) Will you be overclocking?
No

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
2 x 24" dell 2405 FP, I run them at 1600x1200...I think they can go higher resolution, but everthing gets too small for me to see.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
I have one 3d project now that should complete in a few weeks, I'm using my backup computer to get this job done but need to get a main workstation up for future projects...so a few weeks to plan and order...not really a rush, but if a job comes in I can delay for a bit, but need a dependable workstation eventually.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
I'm not sure, I'm using no raid, I copy/create projects to my WS hdd, then when done archive to external hdd which doesn't get as much use as WS hdd. My render farm renders image sequence to my WS hdd so I can video edit from same hdd. SSD might be nice, but I really don't know. I like using one hdd mainly, easier to streamline and I just look to replace it after 2-3 years...that way I keep a fresh drive. Like I said, scsi transfer is what 2.5gbps which is what I currently use...which is ok, if I can get new tech that's faster, ok, but my current rig is fast enough...if ssd reduces electricity and heat...that would be desired.

Quadro fx 4400 uses pci extreme something...it's fast enough...if I have to replace...so be it...don't need anything faster, but if faster comes with new...I'll take it.

I do use hyper threading for the dual xeons...for rendering with vray in bucket mode/distributed rendering, I get more buckets when ht is on...I think it may also help when I have adobe premier running alongside 3ds max alongside photoshop as well as running a render in the background...not on the ws, just on the render nodes...but the WS is the server and the "write-to" hdd. So as the render proceeds, I can watch it in premier and stop and fix something I need to, while keeping 3ds max open...this is a streamline way to work...babysit the render, stop and start as needed...keeps things moving...render farm renders things quick...mainly render with scan line, but sometimes will use vray.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit? Yes, xp pro...my license of max I don't think will run on newer os so if I can reuse xp pro, that would be good.

 

[E4g1e]

Here's the thing:

Neither the FX 4400 nor Windows XP is supported any longer by their parent companies. NVIDIA support for the pre-DX10 GPUs such as the FX 4400 (which in turn was based on the old GeForce 6800 series) ended completely (except for archived drivers) about two years ago while Microsoft support for Windows XP ended this past April. The latter means that your system will be completely vulnerable to malware attacks and hackers through a network connection, and the holes will no longer be patched anymore. Similarly, the Quadro FX 4400 may not work properly on newer system platforms and/or newer OSes.

As a result, you will need to get an entirely new workstation system from scratch, and try to obtain newer versions of the software that you'll be using. For example, a new Quadro K2200 will be faster than your current FX 4400 while costing less than half as much money as what the FX 4400 originally sold for back in 2006. Heck, even the cheapo Quadro K620 is as fast as, if not faster than, your FX 4400.

 

[jfharper]

Thanks for the reply, but I don't completely buy into the whole attack vulnerability fear. I run no antivirus software and do not run os updates...I don't even run browser updates and even turn off my firewall in windows...all that stuff conflicts with my 3d software. Over 15 years, I have only had one virus attack and it was nothing...very easy to get rid of and caused no damage. I don't have anything sensitive or worth losing or getting stolen...I backup to an external hard drive and to DVDs.

I'm not going to spend $3,600 on a new license of 3ds Max, when my current version works just fine...I did that once already and even though made a profit from doing it, considered it a waste of money in hindsight. Once again, I am not out for more speed...just dependability.

In addition, once I bought the graphics card and os...and got them working the way I like when they were new...I have had no reason for the support in 9 years...so just because they don't support them anymore doesn't mean it will effect me, unless they don't work with the new hardware...but I'd be surprised if all options for new hardware did not still support xp because the number of users still using xp is still large.

 

[Dangman]

In addition, once I bought the graphics card and os...and got them working the way I like when they were new...I have had no reason for the support in 9 years...so just because they don't support them anymore doesn't mean it will effect me, unless they don't work with the new hardware...but I'd be surprised if all options for new hardware did not still support xp because the number of users still using xp is still large.

However, hardware manufacturers don't want to spend the additional money to support XP even if there are still XP holdouts. So unfortunately, in your case, even looking at some of the low-end Intel chipsets for socket LGA 1150, I didn't see any support for XP let alone among the mid-range stuff. Over on the AMD side, I haven't seen any XP support for the FM2+ platform. Then again, AMD does have the lower bang for the buck value in most situations. AMD's old 990 series do support XP but it's an old platform to be buying in 2014 (it came out in 2011) considering that that there are newer, faster, and more up-to date hardware for the same price.

I'll keep looking around but it looks like so far that if you want to stick with XP, you're looking at older hardware that's unfortunately overpriced. Then there's the issue of SSDs: They were designed to work with Windows Vista and newer due to TRIM support. While people did use XP with SSDs when those first came out, over time they lost performance and reliability IIRC.I I think Samsung and Intel do have software for XP for their SSDs but I have to double check that.

 

[jfharper]

Thanks...for looking and for your reply

I really don't mind going to a new os, but the price tag on my software is too great to justify...we are probably talking about $5K or more just in software when you add up vray, real flow, 3ds max, premiere, photoshop, etc., not to mention new licenses have different rules regarding render node licenses so those would need upgrade costs and os upgrades per node as well...it a slippery slope of costs that are frustratingly enormous. I run old versions of software because the cost to keep up was too great...and my software works fine.

So lets say an asus p8z77-v Mb, i7-3770k CPU (those run on xp...don't they?), my old Quadro card (that I can replace with another low end Quadro later if need be)...I looked at some prices and they don't seem that overpriced, $160 for the Mb, $300 for the CPU...no way around the CPU...have to get a good one. Ssd isn't required...sata hdd should be fine and not be outdated in a few years like how scsi was back in the day. Ssds have a way to go with their issues and size, but sata hdd s have stood a good test of time.

 

[Alembic5]

Heck, another option might be a used workstation similar to a Dell Precision or HP workstation. I've had a bunch of these boxes, from the 670 you have to the 490, t7500, t5400, t5500 and t3500 workstations. Almost all of them have been bulletproof for me. My ESX box at home right now is a T5400 I've been running for 3 years, and I got it used. Not a single failure from any of these boxes. And... you can get them for a couple hundred bucks depending on config. Considering all out CPU/GPU performance isn't the most important thing for you, then maybe the addition of ECC RAM and server level chipsets will offer some of that stability back. After all, it sounds like your 670 has had a pretty long service life for you. I've bounced back and forth between building my own machines and getting them pre-built, and have seen benefits on both side of the coin. Anyhow, just my thoughts... get what makes most sense to you and your unique situation! You've definitely got quite a few options.

 

[Dangman]

Thanks...for looking and for your reply

I really don't mind going to a new os, but the price tag on my software is too great to justify...we are probably talking about $5K or more just in software when you add up vray, real flow, 3ds max, premiere, photoshop, etc., not to mention new licenses have different rules regarding render node licenses so those would need upgrade costs and os upgrades per node as well...it a slippery slope of costs that are frustratingly enormous. I run old versions of software because the cost to keep up was too great...and my software works fine.

But you're just basically delaying the inevitable though. I mean we already have new hardware that don't support XP. You're not going to see any new hardware support for XP after this current generation. So it's going to be worse for you later on since the licensing schemes in the future might be even worse/more expensive. Nor can we reasonably say whether or not the hardware we recommend these days will last as long as your current Dell since:
A) They're consumer grade hardware, not server compared to your Dell
B) Despite being older, they haven't been out long enough for us to say that they'll last as long as the Dell.

Some additional questions:
1) Are you sure some of those software won't work on Windows 7?
2) Do you have Windows XP Pro 64bit or 32bit?
3) Have you tried running those software in XP mode in Windows 7?

So lets say an asus p8z77-v Mb, i7-3770k CPU (those run on xp...don't they?), my old Quadro card (that I can replace with another low end Quadro later if need be)...I looked at some prices and they don't seem that overpriced, $160 for the Mb, $300 for the CPU...no way around the CPU...have to get a good one.

That's really overpriced considering that newer, more up-to-date, and faster parts costs around the same. Not to mention that you're not overclocking so a 3770K is not a good choice unless a regular 3770 is more expensive. Same for the Z77: you're not overclocking so no real need for a Z77 motherboard when a cheaper H77 mobo works just fine.

Ssd isn't required...sata hdd should be fine and not be outdated in a few years like how scsi was back in the day. Ssds have a way to go with their issues and size, but sata hdd s have stood a good test of time.

Yeah, you're definitely out of date when it comes to SSDs: HDDs are actually getting a tad more unstable these days on account of the sheer storage density, greater volume, and several factory fires/floods. In addition, SSDs have come down dramatically in price over the years to the point where they're part of at least 50%+ of the PC build lists we make in this subforum. Even in $700 to $800 builds, we've crammed in a SSD. So they're extremely worthwhile to get.