Wiring Issues (Can this work?)

[asyork]

The background to my question is a little long, so I try to make it short. Some neighbors called me up to set up a wired network in their new home. They had it pre-wired with hub and all, and only needed network cards, cables, and software configuring. I have never deal with wiring that didn't already have a jack on the end, so it was great to have that all done already. Unfortunately it didn't work.

It turns out they had two people from two different companies work on the wiring. On top of that, the owner wired one of the cables himself. One was the builder, and the other was from a security company. It seems that neither knew what they were doing.

All the phone and data lines for the house come together in the same box. They used two different boards, but they bridged them together with another cable. That doesn't seems like a good idea to me, but I don't have any experience in that area so... On top of that, they only have two of the four pairs wired into the board, blue and orange. Also, all the cables were wired in parallel; blue pair to blue pair and orange to orange. I may be wrong here to, but I don't think you can just wire the entire house in parallel. Why would you even need a hub if you could do that?

Now my job is to figure out what needs to be done to get it to work. I can't finish setting up their network until all this is cleared up.

As of right now, they only have two computers; I might just wire them together as a crossover cable and leave it at that. Or maybe sell them a real hub.

 

[valve1138]

wow.

with that out of the way. It sounds like they have cable that can be used for a network, but is wired for there phones at the moment.

Could you take pics of the box you speak of and post them? It would help greatly in assessing your situation. Also some pics of what you have in each room would help too.

 

[asyork]

Wow is right, and I gave you the shortened version of everything that went on. One guy they hired installed a wall jack and didn't bother connecting it to anything.

I can't get pictures until I go back to their house, and they wanted me to call them with some info to tell the wiring guy before I go back...

As far as the rooms go, one has a Win XP Home comp connected to a DSL modem and to a wall jack, the other has a Win 98 comp connected to a wall jack. I need the XP comp to share the connection with the win 98 comp.

The XP comp says a cable is unplugged. Unfortunately, it doesn't even list its internet connection in the "Network Connections" list, but it loads web pages without a problem, so there are obviously some other issues with that comp.

The box is a bit more difficult. This is the best I can do.

Data Phone
____ ____
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
|___ | |___|

The guy who installed them soldered or otherwise attached connects into the board for the phone and data lines. They are all wired in parrallel so that each solid blue is attached to each solid blue and so on. Great for phone lines, but don't think that is right for data. He also only attached the blue and orange pairs, and taped off the rest. The he ran a wire to bridge the phone and data boards together. Basically, they could use their phones from their RJ-45 jacks if they changed the connector. The guy had no idea what he was doing. They want him to fix it because that is what they are paying him to do. All I have to do is tell them what they need to tell him.

My biggest question is wether or not it is even possible to run a standard home network off of the same kind of board and setup as a phone system, or if I will need to get them a hub/switch. I don't think it will work, but it would be nice if I didn't have to do anything else.

 

[valve1138]

Is only one wire run to each room? Also, what kind of cable is it? Cat 3? Cat 5, or 5e? phone cord?

It sounds like the guy cut all the cable down on a punchdown block, perfectly fine for voice. Not good for data. Although you could put an ethernet jack on the green and brown pairs, on both ends, then plug that into a switch and the PC's, that's a really crappy way of doing things.

Also, is the DSL modem connected to the XP pc via USB?

 

[XOR != OR]

Unless you want to really get into the wiring mess ( and it's up to the client of course ), I'd suggest wireless. Get them something that does WPA and call it a day.

 

[FlatLine84]

If it is CAT-5 running to the jacks they need to be wired like this http://www.lanshack.com/make-cat5E.asp use standard B. I they are not wired like this or it is not CAT-5, then I would highly suggest the wireless solution, it wouldn't be worth the effort if you had to re-run cable, it would be easier to re-crimp. If you can re-crimp, and it is CAT-5, the DSL modem needs to be plugged in to the hub, and 1 connection from the hub need to goto the respective computer.

 

[Order]

I would try for wireless as well.
Generally when you're working with NEMA-type boxes you have to be really careful when adding/removing componentry. During my stint at a security system company, I quickly discovered that the wiring they use isn't really intuitive and unless you know what you're doing you could mess up their phones, data, and security.

 

[asyork]

They don't want wireless. The owner had heard stories at work about people being able to connect to their neighbors' networks, and he said he doesn't want to have to bother with encryption.

The XP computer is connected to the modem through its onboard ethernet and to the network through an add-in PCI card.

I have yet to see anything on the cables identifying it as cat-5, but the owners kept saying cat-5, so someone told them that is what it is. Whatever it is, the same stuff was used for phones and data.

Both rooms have a single wall jack running down to the box in the basement.

So the consensus is that they probably can't use the box they already have, and maybe not even the cables? I think I am going to recommend that they just let me wire the two cables from the computers together as a crossover cable, and leave it at that. Would it be acceptable to solder the wires together?

Valve1138: Are you saying that they only need the green and brown pairs for a network?

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Kaos]

Would it be acceptable to solder the wires together?

Valve1138: Are you saying that they only need the green and brown pairs for a network?

Thanks for all the help.

Dont solder anything together, if you want to splice ethernet connections get a 110 block or put two rj45's on the ends and get a coupler.

Pins 1,2,3,6 are used for ethernet operation so green and brown would get you nowhere.
its orange and green whether its 568a or 568b , what comes first is what changes.

splitting the pairs off is not reccomended, if they ever decide to go GB then they will need all 4 pairs in the future.

the easiest thing to do would be to get a 12 port patch panel and punch each run for data down to it and label them at a common point, normally the basement. then use premade patch cables from there o the hub/switch/router

for crossover connection i generally make a short loop on the patch panel on the last two jacks, punch one to a and one to b, so you can patch a cross over from any connection thats there.

Use the cabling thats there, it might take a little while to figure through but it'll be nice.

Oh chances are the security guy was doing it right, they have to use those kinds of connections and cabling schemes alot, we tend to work with them alot when we are doing a new network installation.

 

[asyork]

I think the only question I have left is if the network will function with the cables wired the way they are. They are attached so that each blue wire is connected to the other blue wires and so on. That doesn't seem right to me. Also, should the cable bridging the phone and data lines together be removed?

Right now, the phone and data lines are wired exactly the same way.

 

[Lazn_Work]

I think the only question I have left is if the network will function with the cables wired the way they are. They are attached so that each blue wire is connected to the other blue wires and so on. That doesn't seem right to me. Also, should the cable bridging the phone and data lines together be removed?

Right now, the phone and data lines are wired exactly the same way.

Having dial tone on the ethernet is a good way to fry computers. (rings can be up to 60V and ethernet runs at something like 5V)

And no you can not just connect the same colors together to have it work, Ethernet wires can not be untwisted over a certain lenght, how it the world would it work with a bunch of wires all connected together? Each wire needs to be terminated, either in a 110 block, or a RJ45 connector.

==>Lazn

 

[Kaos]

it sounds like there are two 66 blocks (4 pins per row, 50 rows total?)

66 blocks are great for voice, most arent rated for 100mbps though, so if i were you i would seriously consider scrapping the data block and starting from scratch.

110 blocks are chea (about $20 at home depot, patch panels will run you a tad more but are way nicer)

http://www.atacom.com/program/print...7075_68_168_190_101&Item_code=NETA_GENE_PP_12

thats the type of panel im suggesting, however you will need to pickup a punch tool, home depot has non impact non cut ones from gardner bender for like bucks, radio shack has similar in the form of a jacket stripper (id get that one, itll make stripping them back easier)

let me know if you need more help, %90 of my work is doing the cabling before i get to install the equipment so im sure i could help with most of your issues.

definately disconnect the cable from the data and phone blocks