Wireless and cable gaming mouse, for Logictech fan boy.

The Mad Atheist

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Looking for a gaming mouse, owned a few Logitechs.
-Revolution MX, and it portable version, the VX.
-g700
Would like another g700 or the g700s. But, seeing the g700 and g700s no longer made and new stick is asinine pricey do to demand.....

Anyone use a like mouse or Logitech clone that can be used wireless or plugged in? Prefer the battery to be rechargeable AA.

Edit, see the g602, anyone use it? Doesn't have much click on the wheel which I like on the g700, including the free spin.
 
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criccio

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Only really have experience with the G703 which I love. If you're going to spend the money, try to get one using Logitech's "Lightspeed" wireless tech would be my suggestion.
 

blurp

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I used to be a major fan fo the G700S like you. Switched to the G604. Love the mouse. Very long battery like. Lot's of buttons. The new mandatory GHub is a major pain though. Getting used to it ...
 

sharknice

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Looking for a gaming mouse, owned a few Logitechs.
-Revolution MX, and it portable version, the VX.
-g700
Would like another g700 or the g700s. But, seeing the g700 and g700s no longer made and new stick is asinine pricey do to demand.....

Anyone use a like mouse or Logitech clone that can be used wireless or plugged in? Prefer the battery to be rechargeable AA.

Edit, see the g602, anyone use it? Doesn't have much click on the wheel which I like on the g700, including the free spin.
I think all of Logitech's wireless gaming mice can be used plugged in. Most of them don't have replaceable batteries anymore though.

I went from g700 -> g700s -> g900 -> g903.

The Logitech G903 is the best mouse there is at the moment IMO (if money is no object).
It has a free spin toggle for the mouse wheel.
You can use it with the PowerPlay mat so you never have to worry about the battery. The cable it comes with is a nice braided cable if you do want to use it plugged in.
The sensor is much better than the G700's and it's actually centered on the mouse instead towards the front like on the G700.

The only downside from the G700 is it only has 2 side buttons instead of 4. But the buttons are much more responsive and easier to press.
 

criccio

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No that would be the g pro wireless.
By what metric? Same wireless tech. I guess you could argue the HERO vs PMW3366 but like.. really? Who can really notice that stuff. The little research i've done in the last few minutes essentially says there is no tangible difference for the most part. Only difference I can see is ergonomics and number of buttons.
 

5150Joker

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By what metric? Same wireless tech. I guess you could argue the HERO vs PMW3366 but like.. really? Who can really notice that stuff. The little research i've done in the last few minutes essentially says there is no tangible difference for the most part. Only difference I can see is ergonomics and number of buttons.
Sensor, weight and battery life. I own both mice fwiw and the g pro wireless is far better.
 

criccio

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Sensor, weight and battery life. I own both mice fwiw and the g pro wireless is far better.
I can agree on battery life, for sure. Sensor i'm not sold on from what i've read and weight is subjective. Some people really, really love heavy mice though i'm not one of them.
 

sharknice

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Sensor, weight and battery life. I own both mice fwiw and the g pro wireless is far better.
I would have switched to that but it doesn't have DPI buttons on the top or a free scroll toggle for the wheel. I use them all the time, if you don't use them I would agree it's the best.
 

5150Joker

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I would have switched to that but it doesn't have DPI buttons on the top or a free scroll toggle for the wheel. I use them all the time, if you don't use them I would agree it's the best.
Well I guess if the free scroll wheel is really that important one could splurge on a cheap secondary mouse that has one for web browsing. For gaming, especially fps, the g pro wireless is clearly superior, there's no doubt about it. The razer viper ultimate wireless is also an excellent alternative to the g pro wireless.
 

criccio

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Well I guess if the free scroll wheel is really that important one could splurge on a cheap secondary mouse that has one for web browsing. For gaming, especially fps, the g pro wireless is clearly superior, there's no doubt about it. The razer viper ultimate wireless is also an excellent alternative to the g pro wireless.
I don't know what is so clear other than some subjective bullet points. I'm just playing devil's advocate here but it sounds a little like you're just rooting for the most expensive option.
 

5150Joker

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I don't know what is so clear other than some subjective bullet points. I'm just playing devil's advocate here but it sounds a little like you're just rooting for the most expensive option.
These mice are built for competitive gaming. The g pro wireless is lighter with an arguably better shape, better battery life and the sensor does make a difference albeit minor. I can switch between both on the fly and my kd trends upward immediately with the g pro wireless. That's an anecdotal experience from me but one echoed by many others in the /r/mousereview subreddit and other places where real gamers give their opinions and not the usual clueless "journalist".

Take it for what you will, I consider myself an above average gamer and lean toward lighter gaming mice (like most fps pros do) and the g pro wireless is the better solution.
 

sharknice

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These mice are built for competitive gaming. The g pro wireless is lighter with an arguably better shape, better battery life and the sensor does make a difference albeit minor. I can switch between both on the fly and my kd trends upward immediately with the g pro wireless. That's an anecdotal experience from me but one echoed by many others in the /r/mousereview subreddit and other places where real gamers give their opinions and not the usual clueless "journalist".

Take it for what you will, I consider myself an above average gamer and lean toward lighter gaming mice (like most fps pros do) and the g pro wireless is the better solution.
I was seriously considering switching to the Pro. The lack of a free scroll wheel toggle was a minus, but not a deal breaker for me. The reason I didn't switch is because the lack of DPI toggles on the top of the mouse in an easy to use location, the reduction in weight wasn't enough to offset that for me.
You aren't fully taking advantage of the sensor if you're using a lower DPI. I use 800 DPI on the desktop and a 20" 360 in first person shooters. I set the sensitivity to as low as it can go in FPS games so I can use a higher DPI. Then I toggle between 800 DPI for menus and the much higher DPI.
With a 20" 360 800 DPI only provides 0.0225 degree precision and 12,000 DPI provides 0.0015 degree precision. That's 15 times the precision. 12,000 DPI is unusablely high for menus so you need a toggle to take advantage of it.

But lighter is definitely better. The heavier the mouse the more friction while you move it which means more resistance to your physical movements which means slower physical reactions.

And the sensor is slightly better on the Pro, but the only ways it's better is in battery efficiency and a DPI range. The battery doesn't matter to me and you can't take advantage of the higher DPI without an easy to use toggle.

So really the only advantage of the pro over the 903 is the 27% weight reduction. Which isn't worth it to me.

I suspect they'll eventually come out with another mouse similar to the pro but with more buttons and I'll probably buy it.
 

5150Joker

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I was seriously considering switching to the Pro. The lack of a free scroll wheel toggle was a minus, but not a deal breaker for me. The reason I didn't switch is because the lack of DPI toggles on the top of the mouse in an easy to use location, the reduction in weight wasn't enough to offset that for me.
You aren't fully taking advantage of the sensor if you're using a lower DPI. I use 800 DPI on the desktop and a 20" 360 in first person shooters. I set the sensitivity to as low as it can go in FPS games so I can use a higher DPI. Then I toggle between 800 DPI for menus and the much higher DPI.
With a 20" 360 800 DPI only provides 0.0225 degree precision and 12,000 DPI provides 0.0015 degree precision. That's 15 times the precision. 12,000 DPI is unusablely high for menus so you need a toggle to take advantage of it.

But lighter is definitely better. The heavier the mouse the more friction while you move it which means more resistance to your physical movements which means slower physical reactions.

And the sensor is slightly better on the Pro, but the only ways it's better is in battery efficiency and a DPI range. The battery doesn't matter to me and you can't take advantage of the higher DPI without an easy to use toggle.

So really the only advantage of the pro over the 903 is the 27% weight reduction. Which isn't worth it to me.

I suspect they'll eventually come out with another mouse similar to the pro but with more buttons and I'll probably buy it.
Thing is for muscle memory and competitive gaming you should never change your dpi. That's why Logitech and other manufacturers shifted the buttons elsewhere. I get others like switching on the fly like you do and for that g 903 is a very viable alternative.
 

bizzmeister

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I have a Logitech 903SE wireless gaming mouse for my 1080Ti build and it’s amazing for being only $80 or so. You mentioned the wheel, this has a lock to spin free or to lock and have a nice bump/click to the mouse scroll.

I’ve been PC gaming for 20+ years (FPS team based competitive shooters) and can confidently say it’s finally there. I was always hesitant to go wireless.

You literally can not tell the difference between wired and wireless, even for competitive gaming. I fucken love it.

I now will never buy wired again.

My 2080Super build has the Steel Series 650 Rival Wireless and that also is incredible but around $125 I think.
 

sharknice

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Thing is for muscle memory and competitive gaming you should never change your dpi. That's why Logitech and other manufacturers shifted the buttons elsewhere. I get others like switching on the fly like you do and for that g 903 is a very viable alternative.
Muscle memory is important, but that's completely wrong. You don't understand what I'm describing.

When you're using the mouse on the desktop and game menus it's moving a cursor on a 2D plane. When you're moving the mouse in a first person shooter it's turning your view in a 3D environment. It's completely different.

What you want to be the same is the distance you move your mouse and the degrees you turn in game. You want that to be the same between games so your muscle memory can be used by every game. But the sensitivity between games is not the same. 800 DPI at 1.0 sensitivity in Counter-Strike is not the same as 800 DPI at 1.0 sensitivity in Call of Duty. So you have to adjust your DPI to make them the same and take advantage of muscle memory.

If you use the same sensitivity on the desktop and menus as you do in game you're putting a hard cap on precision. If you adjust your DPI you remove that cap. For example instead of using 10.0 sensitivity with 1,000 DPI you would use 1.0 sensitivity with 10,000 DPI. Your would turn the exact same amount in game with both of these settings which takes advantage of your muscle memory, but with the higher DPI and lower sensitivity you get 10 times the precision.
 

5150Joker

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I have a Logitech 903SE wireless gaming mouse for my 1080Ti build and it’s amazing for being only $80 or so. You mentioned the wheel, this has a lock to spin free or to lock and have a nice bump/click to the mouse scroll.

I’ve been PC gaming for 20+ years (FPS team based competitive shooters) and can confidently say it’s finally there. I was always hesitant to go wireless.

You literally can not tell the difference between wired and wireless, even for competitive gaming. I fucken love it.

I now will never buy wired again.

My 2080Super build has the Steel Series 650 Rival Wireless and that also is incredible but around $125 I think.
I've been on wireless since the original Mamba wireless and never looked back. I can't stand wired mice and the cord drag, doesn't matter how good of a cord is attached to them. With the latest wireless mice, the difference between wireless/wired mode is so small that it makes no impact on the game whatsoever and it's been confirmed through multiple credible tests.

Anyhow, I put on aftermarket skates on my GPW and also removed the bottom ring to make it even lighter:

fctxyPz.jpg
 

5150Joker

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Muscle memory is important, but that's completely wrong. You don't understand what I'm describing.

When you're using the mouse on the desktop and game menus it's moving a cursor on a 2D plane. When you're moving the mouse in a first person shooter it's turning your view in a 3D environment. It's completely different.

What you want to be the same is the distance you move your mouse and the degrees you turn in game. You want that to be the same between games so your muscle memory can be used by every game. But the sensitivity between games is not the same. 800 DPI at 1.0 sensitivity in Counter-Strike is not the same as 800 DPI at 1.0 sensitivity in Call of Duty. So you have to adjust your DPI to make them the same and take advantage of muscle memory.

If you use the same sensitivity on the desktop and menus as you do in game you're putting a hard cap on precision. If you adjust your DPI you remove that cap. For example instead of using 10.0 sensitivity with 1,000 DPI you would use 1.0 sensitivity with 10,000 DPI. Your would turn the exact same amount in game with both of these settings which takes advantage of your muscle memory, but with the higher DPI and lower sensitivity you get 10 times the precision.
I already know this, I use this site to adjust in-game sensitivity between games: https://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/ But like I said, every single pro out there has a set DPI and never adjust it for competitive fps games, they adjust the game sensitivity instead. For example, my Apex Legends in game sensitvity is set at 1.7 w/800 dpi (1360 edpi) and I use the same 800 dpi in COD w/an ingame sensitivity that keeps the relative distance traveled for a 180 turn close to the same. Adjusting DPI on the fly in a competitive fps game should never happen, hence why the DPI buttons aren't up top anymore for gaming mice like this--plus those extra buttons/triggers add weight and the trend is to go as light as possible now for better flicks.

Now this may not apply to a MOBA or MMORPG and the GPW is certainly not the best mouse for those type of games anyway. This mouse is built for FPS games and if you are a primarily FPS gamer, then GPW and Razer Viper Ultimate are the two best mice out there.

I used to use high dpi back in the day (e.g. 1200+ dpi) and depended on wrist movement but that plateaued me pretty fast. Ever since I switched to a fixed eDPI, I've gotten far better, in Apex I can roll Predators all day long:


Still far from those dudes that play all day long but if I'm lucky these days I get 2 hours a day to play.
 
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sharknice

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I already know this, I use this site to adjust in-game sensitivity between games: https://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/ But like I said, every single pro out there has a set DPI and never adjust it for competitive fps games, they adjust the game sensitivity instead. For example, my Apex Legends in game sensitvity is set at 1.7 w/800 dpi (1360 edpi) and I use the same 800 dpi in COD w/an ingame sensitivity that keeps the relative distance traveled for a 180 turn close to the same. Adjusting DPI on the fly in a competitive fps game should never happen, hence why the DPI buttons aren't up top anymore for gaming mice like this--plus those extra buttons/triggers add weight and the trend is to go as light as possible now for better flicks.

Now this may not apply to a MOBA or MMORPG and the GPW is certainly not the best mouse for those type of games anyway. This mouse is built for FPS games and if you are a primarily FPS gamer, then GPW and Razer Viper Ultimate are the two best mice out there.

I used to use high dpi back in the day (e.g. 1200+ dpi) and depended on wrist movement but that plateaued me pretty fast. Ever since I switched to a fixed eDPI, I've gotten far better, in Apex I can roll Predators all day long:


Still far from those dudes that play all day long but if I'm lucky these days I get 2 hours a day to play.
Sorry but that's just wrong. I still don't think you understand what I'm talking about.
Using higher DPI with lower sensitivity in game is keeping the same effective turning speed (or eDPI as you call it) but getting much higher precision. You aren't "adjusting DPI on the fly" and changing your turning speed. You have a set sensitivity for while you're playing the game, and a set sensitivity for when you're using menus. For example in counter-strike you would use 800 DPI in the buy menus and then 16,000 while you're actually playing the game.
And that doesn't mean you're using a high turning speed and wrist movements because you set the in game sensitivity extremely low.
 

5150Joker

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Sorry but that's just wrong. I still don't think you understand what I'm talking about.
Using higher DPI with lower sensitivity in game is keeping the same effective turning speed (or eDPI as you call it) but getting much higher precision. You aren't "adjusting DPI on the fly" and changing your turning speed. You have a set sensitivity for while you're playing the game, and a set sensitivity for when you're using menus. For example in counter-strike you would use 800 DPI in the buy menus and then 16,000 while you're actually playing the game.
And that doesn't mean you're using a high turning speed and wrist movements because you set the in game sensitivity extremely low.
Go look at most pro players, the vast majority use a set low dpi. What you're describing isn't what most pros do.

Here's an example: https://prosettings.net/apex-legends/shroud-apex-legends-settings/

https://prosettings.net/apex-legends/mendokusaii-apex-legends-settings/

https://prosettings.net/counterstrike/magisk/

These guys use fixed low dpi. What you're describing almost never happens (high dpi and fixed in game sensitivity). Theoretically high dpi and fixed in game should be just as good but nobody uses it and every pro I've ever asked has said low fixed dpi just works better. Pixel skipping isn't an issue with modern sensors so you don't need ultra high dpi. I play Apex at 800 dpi and it works perfectly in the menu, while looting and for aiming, I've got zero need to set a high dpi and then adjust it lower while looting, that would be cumbersome and frankly stupid.

So I get what you're saying, setting in game sensitivity to 1 while having a high dpi should allow you to do the same with every game but that doesn't work out in practice.
 
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sharknice

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Go look at most pro players, the vast majority use a set low dpi. What you're describing isn't what most pros do.

Here's an example: https://prosettings.net/apex-legends/shroud-apex-legends-settings/

https://prosettings.net/apex-legends/mendokusaii-apex-legends-settings/

https://prosettings.net/counterstrike/magisk/

These guys use fixed low dpi. What you're describing almost never happens (high dpi and fixed in game sensitivity). Theoretically high dpi and fixed in game should be just as good but nobody uses it and every pro I've ever asked has reportedly said low fixed dpi just works better. Pixel skipping isn't an issue with modern sensors so you don't need ultra high dpi. I play Apex at 800 dpi and it works perfectly in the menu, while looting and for aiming, I've got zero need to set a high dpi and then adjust it lower while looting, that would be cumbersome and frankly stupid.

So I get what you're saying, setting in game sensitivity to 1 while having a high dpi should allow you to do the same with every game but that doesn't work out in practice.
Most pro players are sponsored and use what they're told even if it isn't the best. Zowie sponsored teams when they didn't even have mice capable of doing accurate 1000hz polling.
Most of the mice in the past despite advertising much higher DPIs haven't even been capable of accurately tracking at high DPI. They have inconsistent acceleration, smoothing, and all sorts of crappy tracking issues which is why a lot of people don't trust higher DPI now even with mice that track perfectly at crazy high DPI. It's the same reason a lot of people still don't trust wireless mice. They've used one shitty wireless mouse and think all wireless mice are bad.
Some companies didn't even have a real hardware DPI selection and faked it with software. People try it on one bad mouse and assume it's bad on all mice There's all sorts of stupid myths and misconceptions that people have come up with because of this crap.

"Pixel skipping" can happen because of a bad sensor, but really it has nothing to do with the sensor. It happens on every sensor in every game. You just need to focus on an object far enough away to see it. But yes, it typically isn't easily noticeable and doesn't matter in most games unless you're trying to snipe from long range without zooming in. This is why most people don't care and it isn't worth any effort to them to make it better.

But it isn't cumbersome to switch DPI when there's a well placed button set up for it on your mouse. It's as simple as pressing F to open a crate or something. If you actually use it it becomes second nature and you don't even notice it.
And it does work out in practice. I literally do it in every game I play. My playstyle tends to be long range sniping so it actually does make a difference for me. I enjoy out-aiming people.
I played "semi-pro" counter-strike and other games way back when winning a tournament barely paid for your travel expenses. I don't play nearly enough anymore to be pro at anything, but I still have better aim than 99.99% of people playing.
 

Zepher

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I use a G602 on my setup. I have some Eneloop rechargeable batteries that I swap out in it.

IMG_4525.JPG


I play with 750 DPI on my mouse, I am also old, 47, so my reaction times have been slowed.

I usually play this character though,
 
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ZeqOBpf6

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I've been on wireless since the original Mamba wireless and never looked back. I can't stand wired mice and the cord drag, doesn't matter how good of a cord is attached to them. With the latest wireless mice, the difference between wireless/wired mode is so small that it makes no impact on the game whatsoever and it's been confirmed through multiple credible tests.

Anyhow, I put on aftermarket skates on my GPW and also removed the bottom ring to make it even lighter:

View attachment 236771
Where'd you get those skates?
 

The Mad Atheist

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I used to be a major fan fo the G700S like you. Switched to the G604. Love the mouse. Very long battery like. Lot's of buttons. The new mandatory GHub is a major pain though. Getting used to it ...
If I have enough money left over that'll be the one I get since it has the tilt and fast scroll. Have you tried using rechargeable 1.2v in it to see it works at a lower voltage, course doubt if LT wouldn't factor those in, but doesn't hurt to ask.
How bad is GHub, the SW with the G700/s could be uninstalled since basic profiles were stored on the mouse, allowing you to use it on other PCs, unless you want that hit and miss app switching feature?
 

The Mad Atheist

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Also, how's the ratchet on the g604 wheel?
NVM, found a review video, looks like a good replacement to the g700, and they improved on the battery and dongle door, g700's lock tab had a habit on breaking. Shame they removed the LED battery level and you have to use the software to check it.
 
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Domingo

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I had a G700 for years. Went through 3 of 'em. It's tough to find them anymore and they tend to be pricey when you do. I think the few retailers that have any left know that they can charge whatever they want.

I eventually bought a G502 Lightspeed last fall and absolutely *love* it, though. It isn't cheap, but it performs like a wired mouse even from 10-15 feet away. The battery lasts forever and it's pretty comfy, too.

On the keyboard front, the G613 occasionally goes on sale for $50-60. It's noisy, but it's otherwise a pretty good purchase for a mechanical wireless keyboard. Their newer models are like 5x more expensive even if they are way quieter. If you just want a good digital wireless keyboard, try to hunt down a K250 if you can. They have no key rollover limitations, they're quiet, and I love the layout. Kinda like the G700, people tend to gouge for them...but they occasionally show up on eBay or in mom & pop shops for like $20. My Microcenter had some still on the shelf up until very recently.
 

The Mad Atheist

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I had a G700 for years. Went through 3 of 'em. It's tough to find them anymore and they tend to be pricey when you do. I think the few retailers that have any left know that they can charge whatever they want.

I eventually bought a G502 Lightspeed last fall and absolutely *love* it, though. It isn't cheap, but it performs like a wired mouse even from 10-15 feet away. The battery lasts forever and it's pretty comfy, too.

On the keyboard front, the G613 occasionally goes on sale for $50-60. It's noisy, but it's otherwise a pretty good purchase for a mechanical wireless keyboard. Their newer models are like 5x more expensive even if they are way quieter. If you just want a good digital wireless keyboard, try to hunt down a K250 if you can. They have no key rollover limitations, they're quiet, and I love the layout. Kinda like the G700, people tend to gouge for them...but they occasionally show up on eBay or in mom & pop shops for like $20. My Microcenter had some still on the shelf up until very recently.
Had 2 g700, Logitech gave me a free one because I wanted to buy a new battery door due to the snap tab breaking off. I didn't see a replacement door in their shop while they had the rest listed, contacted CS to see if they'll sell me one, they couldn't, so they told me they'll send a new mouse and keep the old one. I ended up giving the mouse to a coworker. I should've kept it.......
 
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