WinXP Memory Limitation?

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darkwraith007

Weaksauce
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Messages
76
Hello to all.

First, the specs, no overclocking done, all stock components, no extra cooling done:

Intel Northwood 3.0 Ghz Processor
ASUS P4P800-VM Motherboard Socket 478 with BIOS v1018 @ Feb-24-2006
Four seperate 1GB sticks of Corsair CMX1024-3200C2 DDR1 RAM in Dual-Channel Configuration
WinXP SP3, no further patches installed after SP3, was installed 'fresh' via slipstreaming.
NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GT 512MB DDR3 AGP 8x card with Omega v2.169.21 video drivers installed

I realize my setup isn't the most ideal by any means but its sufficient for my uses. I'm not trying to run 'Crysis' or anything, lol.

My problem is this. When I install all 4 of the 1GB sticks of Corsair RAM, the BIOS only shows 3071 MB of memory installed. I used the /3GB and /PAE switches in the WinXP bios.ini file and it hasn't changed what the BIOS shows...I don't know what the issue is.

According to ASUS its possibly a hardware limitation of the motherboard, even though those f-ers wanted to advertise the board as 'fully supporting 4 GB of RAM'.

So I want to know what I can do or configure within the BIOS to let it 'see' the 4 GB of RAM. I'm sure I could deal with 'only' 3 GB of RAM for WinXP as long as the BIOS would show more then that. Hell, I'd be happy with 3.5 GB showing up.

Any helpful ideas and comments are appreciated.
Thank you all for your time.
 
This is normal. Windows XP Professional/Home/Media Center Edition/MCE 2005 (all 32bit variants) are all limited to 4GB of addressable memory. In your situation some memory is being reserved for things like video card memory and IO addresses required for direct memory access. This is simply how some hardware works. Only a 64bit OS can overcome this limitation.

Windows doesn't use more than 2GB for programs anyway. This will not impact performance and really everything's working as it should. If you want to take advantage of all of your system's installed RAM, you need to upgrade your operating system to Windows XP Professional x64 Edition, Windows Server 2003 64bit, or Windows Vista x64.
 
Thanks for the tip, I suspected as much.
So I'm pretty much stuck like this until I 'upgrade' to a 64-bit OS?
That really blows, as *ALL* of my programs are 32-bit ones, as in what 99% of the world is using.
Unless they start making more 64-bit versions of popular software/games, it won't grow beyond its niche.
And its not as if I even have a 64-bit processor. Hell, I might as well get a new computer for that.

In any case, just a quick thing here. The main reason for my 'upgrades' were to play World of Warcraft. I wanted to know what tweaks I could do so that I wouldn't have to 'waste' 1 GB of RAM. Or is it not being wasted at all? I don't see how 'system processes' and other hardware stuff can reserve an entire GB of RAM.

So is there anything I can change or tweak without hardware upgrades or a new OS?
And since I have a 512MB card, how does that use up my on-board system RAM also?

I thank you for any help you can offer.

EDIT: Random OT comment regarding your signature, but I would prefer shotgun 'shell' rounds (the ones that don't spread out too much) to buckshot or birdshot, both of which could hurt innocent bystanders or cause more unintended damage then necessary, leaving you open to civil and criminal liability. Of course you wouldn't even use a shotgun against people, only against vehicles and only as a last resort type of thing. A simple 9mm or even a .45 handgun is more then enough firepower for any self-defense civilian purpose. The ONLY people that need more are PRO-sportsman (who do it for a living), PRO hunters (as part of a professionally organized and legalized hunting club that does regular events) and law enforcement/military (by virtue they can do anything with any weapons).
 
Check the memory faq. It will explain why. Your chipset is limited to 4GB total memory, so you cannot really do anything or install anything to help it.

Windows doesn't use more than 2GB for programs anyway. This will not impact performance and really everything's working as it should.
Click to expand...
Each application get 2GB, so it might get noticed.
 
Linux doesn't have this problem, you should be using it anyway, unless you're some kind of M$ fanboy.
 
darkwraith007 said:
Thanks for the tip, I suspected as much.
So I'm pretty much stuck like this until I 'upgrade' to a 64-bit OS?
That really blows, as *ALL* of my programs are 32-bit ones, as in what 99% of the world is using.
Unless they start making more 64-bit versions of popular software/games, it won't grow beyond its niche.
And its not as if I even have a 64-bit processor. Hell, I might as well get a new computer for that.
Click to expand...

64-Bit Windows runs 32-bit applications just fine with no performance loss whatsoever. I've been using 64-bit Vista for a couple years.

You do lose 16-bit application support, although you can still run old DOS applications in an emulator like DOSBox and use VMs for other really old software if you need to.

popbob said:
Linux doesn't have this problem, you should be using it anyway, unless you're some kind of M$ fanboy.
Click to expand...

You Fail. All 32-bit OS's are limited to 4 GB.
 
Cut the flaming everyone!
This isn't a Windows vs Linux debate.
Just watch this handy link. ^_^

http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/gaming.php
http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/performance.php

Regardless of whether I used a free 64-bit Linux-based kernel or not, the simple fact is that without the 64-bit hardware to support it, it wouldn't provide that much benefit as far as performance gaming. I mean yes if I only wanted to use the internet and check e-mail then I'd run an Ubuntu partition in a heartbeat, but I use my computer for many more things. See the specs I posted? This isn't grandma's computer. Wine is emulation and has a performance hit (and many times a huge one at that). I'm not an M$ fanboy by any means (if you've read my signature you'd know that) but I must admit that once I've used 'nLite' to customize my installation, WinXP is a damn stable and reliable OS. I have *yet* to encounter a blue screen or have the computer seriously crash on me. Or to have any virus/trojan issues. Or to have issues installing stuff or making stuff work. I love USB. ^_^

I read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

And I believe due to the 'driver' issues I don't believe I'll be upgrading to 64-bit anytime soon. If its all this much hassle with new hardware/software just for an extra GB of RAM, then screw that, I'll do fine without it.

I thank everyone for their help, and the mods may lock this thread if they wish, as its purpose has been done.
 
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darkwraith007 said:
And I believe due to the 'driver' issues I don't believe I'll be upgrading to 64-bit anytime soon. If its all this much hassle with new hardware/software just for an extra GB of RAM, then screw that, I'll do fine without it.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with not upgrading, although I have to say that hardware support in 64-Bit Vista is outstanding. As I said before running 32-bit apps on a 64-bit OS isn't a problem at all.

You might think about upgrading to 64-bit Windows 7 when it comes out, unless you've got some ancient/really odd piece of hardware you wont have any issues. Judging from your hardware specs you'd be fine.
 
Besides upgrading to a 64bit OS, you're probably going to want to upgrade to a 64bit capable processor first!

The northwood p4 doesn't support 64bit OSes. P4s from LGA775 and onward do though. If you want to keep your ram and still go 64bit your best bet is to search for a socket 939 system as they support 64bit and operate with DDR1.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Nothing wrong with not upgrading, although I have to say that hardware support in 64-Bit Vista is outstanding. As I said before running 32-bit apps on a 64-bit OS isn't a problem at all.

You might think about upgrading to 64-bit Windows 7 when it comes out, unless you've got some ancient/really odd piece of hardware you wont have any issues. Judging from your hardware specs you'd be fine.
Click to expand...

The OP has a P4 Northwood, meaning Socket 478, and I do not believe there were any socket 478 processors that were 64-bit capable. That means he would have to upgrade his motherboard and processor at the minimum to install a 64-bit OS. I do agree with you, though, on the upgrading to a 64-bit OS whenever he upgrades to 64-bit capable hardware as there are few good reasons not to. Whenever I upgraded from my socket 478 Prescott, I switched to Vista 64-bit and now 7 64-bit without looking back.
 
Killroy said:
The OP has a P4 Northwood, meaning Socket 478, and I do not believe there were any socket 478 processors that were 64-bit capable. That means he would have to upgrade his motherboard and processor at the minimum to install a 64-bit OS. I do agree with you, though, on the upgrading to a 64-bit OS whenever he upgrades to 64-bit capable hardware as there are few good reasons not to. Whenever I upgraded from my socket 478 Prescott, I switched to Vista 64-bit and now 7 64-bit without looking back.
Click to expand...

Northwood Pentium 4's were incapable of supporting 64bit instructions. However, Prescott CPUs technically had the capability, though it was disabled until the socket LGA775 CPUs came out. However, supposedly there were a handful of socket 478 Prescott "F" CPUs that were 64bit capable. I believe they were sold by Dell at one point.
 
Flexion said:
Besides upgrading to a 64bit OS, you're probably going to want to upgrade to a 64bit capable processor first!

The northwood p4 doesn't support 64bit OSes. P4s from LGA775 and onward do though. If you want to keep your ram and still go 64bit your best bet is to search for a socket 939 system as they support 64bit and operate with DDR1.
Click to expand...

You beat me to it, but there are also some ASRock, and possibly others brands, motherboards with LGA 775 sockets with DDR1 and AGP slots that he could upgrade to for cheap. Those motherboards were pretty cheap when they came out, so they should be really cheap now if you can find a used one.
 
Dan_D said:
Northwood Pentium 4's were incapable of supporting 64bit instructions. However, Prescott CPUs technically had the capability, though it was disabled until the socket LGA775 CPUs came out. However, supposedly there were a handful of socket 478 Prescott "F" CPUs that were 64bit capable. I believe they were sold by Dell at one point.
Click to expand...

I didn't remember there being any 64-bit socket 478 CPU's but wasn't sure. While that is good information to know, I doubt it would be very easy to find one of the Prescott "F" CPUs and a motherboard that also has 64-bit support.
 
Killroy said:
I didn't remember there being any 64-bit socket 478 CPU's but wasn't sure. While that is good information to know, I doubt it would be very easy to find one of the Prescott "F" CPUs and a motherboard that also has 64-bit support.
Click to expand...

I don't believe the motherboard needed support for them beyond a BIOS update. Remember, if Intel had enabled it, all Prescott "E" CPUs were technically capable of 64bit support. That is one of the reasons why the Prescott CPU was quite a bit different than its Northwood core predecessors. To date I've never seen one of these CPUs and its just a piece of information I remember reading at the time.
 
Killroy said:
The OP has a P4 Northwood, meaning Socket 478, and I do not believe there were any socket 478 processors that were 64-bit capable. That means he would have to upgrade his motherboard and processor at the minimum to install a 64-bit OS.
Click to expand...

Ah, I forgot about that. I was all AMD back then.

New plan OP, your hardware isn't [H] enough. Time to upgrade.
 
Lol...hardware upgrades...whee!
But before I get into that...just an issue I had.

I mentioned how I've never gotten a blue screen?
I'm eating my words right now. >_>
After several hours of playing WoW (and at near-maxed settings) for several hours (about 5+ hours) I got a random BSOD when I clicked the 'Achievements' button. So damn random. >_>

I know its due to my recent hardware upgrades.

I don't believe its a power issue because I have way more power then needed, my UPS shows I'm using less then half the available power output of my power supply at *peak* load. Its a 400W power supply and I'm using less then 200W at peak, and only 120W idle.

So I suspect its a heat issue and perhaps I could get some cheap cooling, but this is the problem. I already have cooling done, and decently done at that. Got a fan blowing on the video card (in addition to the video card's own fan), got a CPU fan, a case fan, and a twin-fan setup attached to the hard drive. Yeah its a bit noisy but its usable, and its drowned out by the music anyways.

So any tips on cooling? Looking to spend less then $50 here, need a cheap solution, even if it requires a bit of maintenance.

Checking the temps via the motherboard sensors, my CPU temp was ~120 degrees Fahrenheit at peak usage and my motherboard hit ~100 degrees Fahrenheit at peak. Those numbers sound WAY too hot.
>_>
 
darkwraith007 said:
Lol...hardware upgrades...whee!
But before I get into that...just an issue I had.

I mentioned how I've never gotten a blue screen?
I'm eating my words right now. >_>
After several hours of playing WoW (and at near-maxed settings) for several hours (about 5+ hours) I got a random BSOD when I clicked the 'Achievements' button. So damn random. >_>

I know its due to my recent hardware upgrades.

I don't believe its a power issue because I have way more power then needed, my UPS shows I'm using less then half the available power output of my power supply at *peak* load. Its a 400W power supply and I'm using less then 200W at peak, and only 120W idle.

So I suspect its a heat issue and perhaps I could get some cheap cooling, but this is the problem. I already have cooling done, and decently done at that. Got a fan blowing on the video card (in addition to the video card's own fan), got a CPU fan, a case fan, and a twin-fan setup attached to the hard drive. Yeah its a bit noisy but its usable, and its drowned out by the music anyways.

So any tips on cooling? Looking to spend less then $50 here, need a cheap solution, even if it requires a bit of maintenance.

Checking the temps via the motherboard sensors, my CPU temp was ~120 degrees Fahrenheit at peak usage and my motherboard hit ~100 degrees Fahrenheit at peak. Those numbers sound WAY too hot.
>_>
Click to expand...

If you put any additional dollars into your p4 you're investing in old tech. Also, PWMs for P4s were quite sensitive to heat, so if you're hit with a virus lately and don't know about it, that could be the problem. Is your system laggy too?

If your system is on 24/7 then it definitely pays to upgrade, as the P4s sucked up alot of juice, for the amount of work they get done.
 
In your bios have you enabled Memory hole? When running my AMD x2 I upgraded to 4gigs of ram and bios and XP would only report 2.75gb, once I enabled memory hole it atleast reported 4GB, even If I wasn't using it all.

Did you see what BSOD reported? What about event viewer for errors?

120*F is only 49*C, thats nothing for a P4, my old P4 3.0E would hit temps upwards of 60*C under load and never gave me issues. This was running a ASUS P4P800-SE, sold the cpu and mobo to my boss a couple years ago, still running strong.

I still have a Albatron S478 board that has PCI-E 16x slot in it that I used with a 7800GT, great board. No cpu for it though. LOL.
 
Well, as far as 'old tech', When I purchased the computer about 5 years ago, I 'invested' $1500 for something I use daily (with awesome results). I've spent less then $20 on both of the fans (I think they were in a clearance bin or something, so long ago) and I spent about $100 for the video card (brand new) and $50 for the RAM (I got a friend, who knows a friend, it helps) despite it being DDR1.

So far, currently my system would be about as 'peak' as it can be, no further upgrades can be done without a brand new computer. The purpose of these upgrades was to make a very minimal investment (less then the cost of a Wii console) and extend the useful life of my PC another 5 years (since its already been 5 years going strong). I'd say I made some pretty decent choices and I'm pleased with the results, especially waiting so long for the AGP cards to FINALLY drop down below $150.

Any guesses on when they'll move everyone back to AGP 16X or 32X?
I find it absurd that they pretty much forced everyone to upgrade their motherboards (and sometimes other components) just for a video card upgrade. Screw that, I'm AGP and still proud. ^_^

RogueTrip, seems you were right about it not being a heat issue. I played WoW again for several hours (nonstop) this time around. Even a few PvP BG battles that were fairly intense (lots of stuff on-screen). To boost my framerate a bit I lowered some of the settings to hit that sweet spot of 30+ FPS no matter what's going on. It still looks a ton better and runs a lot smoother then my old video card. Since WoW is CPU dependant I can't expect a huge boost but at least its something.

I'll do a bit of research on some cheap cooling solutions and see what happens.
 
darkwraith007 said:
Well, as far as 'old tech', When I purchased the computer about 5 years ago, I 'invested' $1500 for something I use daily (with awesome results). I've spent less then $20 on both of the fans (I think they were in a clearance bin or something, so long ago) and I spent about $100 for the video card (brand new) and $50 for the RAM (I got a friend, who knows a friend, it helps) despite it being DDR1.
Click to expand...
The purpose of these upgrades was to make a very minimal investment (less then the cost of a Wii console) and extend the useful life of my PC another 5 years (since its already been 5 years going strong). I'd say I made some pretty decent choices and I'm pleased with the results, especially waiting so long for the AGP cards to FINALLY drop down below $150.
Click to expand...

Dude, this is the [H]ard Forum, not the [F]rugal Forum. :p

If it works for you then keep using it until it dies/can't run what you want to run. Newer chips are so much more powerful and efficient than the P4 that I think it would be a nice upgrade, but its your money.

Any guesses on when they'll move everyone back to AGP 16X or 32X?
I find it absurd that they pretty much forced everyone to upgrade their motherboards (and sometimes other components) just for a video card upgrade.
Click to expand...

Uh, never? Why would they?

It would be pointless to buy a really powerful new video card and match it up with some old Pentium 4. The Pentium 4 wouldn't be able to keep up with the video card, so you'd have to buy a new socket 775 or AM2 processor and motherboard for a high end system anyway. Thus the upgrade from AGP to PCI-E was pretty painless for most people.

PCI-E is a superior interface all around. I'll be glad when they completely phase out PCI.
 
Hello everyone,

After a bit of testing, the BSOD isn't limited to just WoW, I've had stuttering/freezing issues with games (it freezes for a second, then resumes, then repeats the freeze/resume for a bit) aside from WoW.

So I tried removing the 'extra' fan for the video card that was inside, since the video card has its own fan anyhow. Even tried plugging in a direct power connection from the power supply to the video card, still no difference...

So its just my guess but I'm probably hitting some issue with drivers. Does anyone know of any custom Nvidia drivers that I could switch to? Removing the old one won't be an issue (I have a driver cleaning utility as well to clean up after the uninstalls).

I want to know the best Nvidia Driver version for my video card, and where I can download them. I want drivers that aren't 'stock' Nvidia Drivers.
 
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darkwraith007 said:
I want to know the best Nvidia Driver version for my video card, and where I can download them. I want drivers that aren't 'stock' Nvidia Drivers.
Click to expand...

Have you at least tried the official drivers to see if it fixes your problem? The Omega drivers haven't been updated since January 2008.

Why don't you want to use the normal drivers? Its not like modded drivers will magically make your card faster.
 
Figured it out, sorta.
It seems this card in particular is a 'bastardized' concept of a PCI card that was fitted with an AGP interface. It didn't perform terribly well and consumers complained so much that Nvidia doesn't even mention it on their website anymore.

Apparently its a real power hog and requires 30W of power by itself on dedicated lines. My slightly old power supply may not be up to the task as its 400W and not 450W but I'll do a bit more testing on this.

I used ADA32 and though I'm not sure how reliable the information is, it shows that I have Detonator 69.82 drivers installed? Must be a glitch, but meh.

I'm going to head to a computer shop this week and get the CPU fan & heatsink assembly completely cleaned up and reapply the thermal paste. I might also get a power supply upgrade if its a decent price (under $50). I don't want the power supply dying on me suddenly. Wish I could remember exactly what type of power supply it is but its a generic brand one that's 400W.

I may also look into cooling and see what my options are, otherwise the cooling in the case is fairly adequete as it is.

With all that, I'm also going to backup everything and do a full system OS reinstall, making sure that I install antivirus *after* I install the drivers at least.

My guess on this is that I have either insufficient power issues, drivers running into a conflict (should've installed them in safe mode perhaps), or a combination of those two issues. The CPU cleaning is just a preventative measure. ^_^

I'm planning on getting at least 5 more years outta this rig before I 'retire' it to greener pastures (or it craps out on me before then). Its rock solid and prior to this upgrade I had no issues with it whatsoever. Like I said, I'm not playing many 'top end' games due to the fact that I won't be needing DirectX 10 anytime soon (since I refuse to upgrade to Vista for it).

Thankfully, most game designers are still making their games DirectX 9.0 compatible so I can do without a few fancy effects that I wouldn't notice otherwise. I'll actually venture a guess to say I have a 'complete' PC gaming collection and don't plan on purchasing any more PC games in the forseeable future (due to DRM crap that's been popping up on each and every game) and will happily stick with PC gaming and gaming on my PS2. ^_^

Many thanks to all who helped. I had to dig around a bit via google to find some mention of the power requirements on an obscure tech forum, and even then I had to read through a few pages to find it.

Console gaming will always remain popular just because gaming is easy. Just plug and play. But my PC helps me at least think outside the box.
 
Video Card: Nvidia GeForce FX 7950 GT
Interface: AGP 8x
Memory: 512 MB DDR3 on-board dedicated video card memory
Power Requirement: 450W power supply, minimum. Unbranded or cheap power supplies will provide much less power then they are 'stated' to have.

That's the above card that I was able to purchase online for under $200 US as of about a month before this post was made. Found it via Froogle (Google Shopping or w/e).

After having freezing/crashing issues (even a blue screen, twice) and running WinXP SP3, and even after doing a COMPLETE uninstall/reinstall of the drivers, the issues did not abate.

SOLUTION: Upgraded power supply from 400W no-name brand to an ULTRA-branded 600W power supply. I have no more stability or cooling issues, as the new power supply runs a lot cooler (and thus the rest of my computer is a lot cooler too!). I configured the fan for it so that it sucks the hot air directly from the CPU and blows it out of the back of my computer case. Maybe 600W was overkill, but I figure its better safe then sorry. I'm running games now with absolutely NO issues whatsoever. ^_^
 
Removing this post. didn't mean to resurrect what should be a dead thread
 
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Forgive the necro-ing, but I do have important updates on the situation that may help anyone who has the same vid card I have.

My specs (listed in the first post of the thread) included an Nvidia GeForce FX 7950 GT with fairly old hardware. Despite the bottleneck via other components, the performance difference was substantial enough to justify the expenditure. Unfortunately for me I ran into a few system stability issues as evidenced by the later posts in the thread.

So here's the thing.
The Nvidia GeForce FX 7950 GT used to be a PCI-express card that was hastily modified and sold as an AGP card, but due to massive customer complaints about stability (similar to mine), it was discontinued.

I upgraded my paltry built-in 400W generic power supply to a 600W 'ULTRA' branded power supply. It seemed to solve the issues, for the time being.

It seems I pushed the video card past its limit somehow, since TWO capacitors on the card itself burst open! I'm glad that it was only damage limited to the card itself and that it didn't damage the rest of my components, although my on-board motherboard video doesn't work anymore so I pulled my old spare video card out of storage and have been using it till now.
The most intensive thing I was doing at the time was playing Aion at maxed specs, though I had been playing for about 2 hours at the time of the 'burst'.

If anyone does manage to see this and still has one of these vid cards, caveat emptor! I'd either try to return it and get a card with better reliability, or just get a cheap extended warranty, or learn to solder and fix em yourself!
 
DeathFromBelow said:
You Fail. All 32-bit OS's are limited to 4 GB.
Click to expand...
BS

32-bit operating systems can support more than 4GB through PAE. However MS crippled PAE support in XP SP2 claiming driver compatibility issues.

In XP SP2 the crippling runs so deep it basically can't be disabled. In vista and 7 the crippling can be bypassed by hexediting the kernel. Server versions of windows aren't crippled in this way (though they do still have max ram limits that vary by edition).

Linux has never been crippled in this way, if you load a PAE kernel you can run more than 4GB on a 32-bit system quite happilly.
 
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