Windows XP PCs No Longer Receiving Updates

[B00nie]

I have to use it every 1 - 2 weeks at my job. We have tried several different flavors. Currently on Xubuntu. I have never seen a version I liked that was not confusing. I could probably give it more effort but I still wouldn't use it as I would never be able to run most programs on it because the majority of programs don't support linux. I understand there are alternatives and programs that allow you to virtualize or run it in compatibility but for a common user, these methods are impossible. You must understand that the common user (grandma) honestly believes that computers are nothing short of magic.

Grandma can do everything she needs using non windows software. My own parents have used only linux for 5-6 years now.

 

[Ur_Mom]

Grandma can do everything she needs using non windows software. My own parents have used only linux for 5-6 years now.

Grandma can very easily. But, if they are used to Windows, you'll need to go sit by her and walk her thorough the basics. After that, if she only does the simple things, she'll be fine. But, you will be tech support. ISP's and OEM's rarely support Linux, in my experience. Not a bad thing, and it doesn't mean that they can't use Linux, just an added bit.

Linux is easy once set up. Put up some icons and it's just click and use. Anyone can do that. Internet/email/Open Office. That's really all most people need. Until they start trying to install things...

 

[Stiletto]

I saw George RR Martin on Conan, and he talked about the fact that he keeps two computers: one for internet usage, and the other for writing. The writing PC? An old DOS machine with no ability to connect to the internet.

Smart.

 

[Ashbringer]

Linux will never be an alternative to Windows. It is easily the most confusing operating system I have ever used and I'm a computer tech. No common user will ever be able to use it.

Right now it's easier to use Linux over Windows. Specifically a distro like Mint which is meant to look and feel a lot like Windows. It's easier to install applications and to keep them up to date.

The problem is Windows application on Linux, which is understandable hard. Mainly because Wine is not meant to work. Wine is like a beta test for CrossOver which is made by CodeWeavers. Which have a lot of developers working on Wine.

PlayOnLinux is a utility which handles Wine a lot like CrossOver, just not as well. The Wine developers hate it so much that if you even mention it in their forums, they will point to the FAQ, which states that they don't deal with PlayOnLinux. Which all it does is install Wine easier with all the files needed to get an application working. No Terminal commands needed. It even makes shortcuts for you.

To give you an idea of the fuckery with Wine, a nouveau developer made a DirectX 9 state tracker for Linux. It works, perfectly in Wine. The Wine developers do not support it and include it in Wine. Arguing that it would be pointless. But the state tracker natively implements DX9 into Linux. So you don't have to use OpenGL for Wine, and you would gain a huge performance boost. They say it's pointless cause who would use it? It wouldn't work on Mac, and on Linux you have to use Open Source drivers. The Nouveau drivers can't increase the clock speed of Nvidia GPU's, so it performs badly. But AMD open source drivers are now better then Catalyst, and Intel drivers are always open source. CrossOver sells better on Mac then on Linux, and there's no chance in hell you'd see open source drivers on Mac. So for them the DX9 state tracker is a conflict of interest.

If an application was made specifically for Linux, then it's easy to install. Just open up the software center in Ubuntu or Mint and type the name and click install. That easy. Or for example download a .deb file and double click it to install. Debian based distro's use .deb files like installers. Same deal, very easy.

 

[B00nie]

Grandma can very easily. But, if they are used to Windows, you'll need to go sit by her and walk her thorough the basics. After that, if she only does the simple things, she'll be fine. But, you will be tech support. ISP's and OEM's rarely support Linux, in my experience. Not a bad thing, and it doesn't mean that they can't use Linux, just an added bit.

Linux is easy once set up. Put up some icons and it's just click and use. Anyone can do that. Internet/email/Open Office. That's really all most people need. Until they start trying to install things...

I put them on linux exactly because I was tired of fixing their computers constantly. They were getting all kinds of infections or the computer was slow or...

After their XP got totally messed by a virus that corrupted the registry I literally forced them to linux. After initial nagging they realized it worked just as windows did. Only difference is I no longer get calls every 2 months to fix stuff.

They bought a new laptop with Win7 on it. It lasted 2 weeks before the first infection, boom I set Xubuntu on it also. No more calls. Me happy.

I basically only had to set up Skype, show them where to open office/scan software, set some quick links to the browser and installed pipelight. That was all they needed. They now can use all the web services they used to use and open cute powerpoints with puppies, only this time they won't get the trojan embedded in it.

 

[heatlesssun]

I basically only had to set up Skype, show them where to open office/scan software, set some quick links to the browser and installed pipelight. That was all they needed. They now can use all the web services they used to use and open cute powerpoints with puppies, only this time they won't get the trojan embedded in it.

It's still a very bad idea to open up attachments if you don't know what they are, period. It's easier to get away with desktop Linux from the standpoint of local malware, but just look at what's happening to Android. The market share for desktop Linux isn't there for many to be interested in malware at this point but if it ever did get there you're getting people into some really bad habits.

 

[NeghVar]

and the next step...
When will Microsoft cease production of 32-bit versions of new OSs?

 

[B00nie]

It's still a very bad idea to open up attachments if you don't know what they are, period. It's easier to get away with desktop Linux from the standpoint of local malware, but just look at what's happening to Android. The market share for desktop Linux isn't there for many to be interested in malware at this point but if it ever did get there you're getting people into some really bad habits.

Try teaching a closer to 70 year old person safe browsing habbits. It's just not going to happen, which is why I gave up.

I know that even linux can get attacked but as it is now, it's as close to bullet proof as it gets. Mostly because it's not getting targeted actively.

They're happy campers, I no longer have to preach to them about not going to certain sites or opening certain attachments, they can just use the computers and enjoy them.

 

[heatlesssun]

and the next step...
When will Microsoft cease production of 32-bit versions of new OSs?

Not for a LONG time, especially until mobile is fully 64bit on the hardware side.

 

[B00nie]

It's still a very bad idea to open up attachments if you don't know what they are, period. It's easier to get away with desktop Linux from the standpoint of local malware, but just look at what's happening to Android. The market share for desktop Linux isn't there for many to be interested in malware at this point but if it ever did get there you're getting people into some really bad habits.

Androids problem is the ass backwards style that Google handles the play store. They should force developers to have their code reviewed before publishing just as Apple does.

Android proponents claim nothing can pass the user verification (which has been proven false) and the user has to agree to elevated rights on installation. That is also totally botched up because the security levels pop up every time you install a game or other app, users learn to expect that all apps require rights of some sorts and learn to accept them without wondering why an app requires phone access for example.

A mobile phone is too dangerous to leave open, it's a direct source to billing which means you could as well leave your credit card open. A developer can create an app that silently and in the background sends SMSes to paid numbers or calls on background to Nigerian 1000 bucks a minute payphones owned by the attackers.

On mobile phones closed is good. The less direct access third parties get to my phone the happier I am.

 

[heatlesssun]

Try teaching a closer to 70 year old person safe browsing habbits. It's just not going to happen, which is why I gave up.

There's a lot more to be concerned about than local malware, web sites get hijacked all of the time and can compromise people without the need for local execution. But hey whatever works. I've found that it's simply a matter if people listen. When I setup non-admin accounts on 7/8 machines and tell people treat your PC like opening your door or answering your cell phone, have an idea who you're bringing into your house or calling you, especially on cells where charges can magically appear.

If you're online a lot and completely oblivious to any type of security, you're asking for trouble no matter the client.

 

[pxc]

and the next step...
When will Microsoft cease production of 32-bit versions of new OSs?

That's a good question. The trend since Vista is that more copies of the 64-bit OS have been in use than the 32-bit version, and Windows 8.x 32-bit version has a small fraction of all Win 8.x copies in use.

There's not a technical reason why 32-bit version can't be offered until the process size limit gets in the way of most (significant) software, but it looks like lack of demand may kill 32-bit support first.

 

[Ruoh]

Don't forget to clean up your WSUS, guys. I said eff it, and cleaned all ours on Monday. Removing all the XP patches/updates etc saved a TON of space.

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

Right now it's easier to use Linux over Windows.

Yeah pretty much this stuff. The transition from Windows-pre 8 to Linux Mint was super easy. Icons did the things I expected them to do when compared to Windows, there's a working start menu, applications were very easy to find and install, and I didn't even have to go hunting for drivers to make hardware work. None of that was the case when I was learning Windows 8 because things were very different to the point where it took me a lot longer to figure out how to make the OS work efficiently for me.

I'm sure that Linux is a perfectly usable replacement for Windows and is a natural, intuitive shift from Windows 95 through 7 for a person taking the plunge to prepare for avoiding cloud-mandatory, make-an-account required, subscription-based Microsoft operating systems of the near future and for those who wanna avoid Windows 8's touch-centric UI (moreso now that the touch on PC fad is rapidly dying out).

 

[MrGuvernment]

I think Microsoft is kinda regretting not patching Windows XP. People have started to think of radical alternatives, which don't include Microsoft Windows.

Love to see those stats of people changing over to alternative OS's....

 

[Quix]

Try teaching a closer to 70 year old person safe browsing habbits. It's just not going to happen, which is why I gave up.

I know that even linux can get attacked but as it is now, it's as close to bullet proof as it gets. Mostly because it's not getting targeted actively.

They're happy campers, I no longer have to preach to them about not going to certain sites or opening certain attachments, they can just use the computers and enjoy them.

I managed to teach my father and he's 68, if you boil it down to the simple things they can get it.

 

[heatlesssun]

Love to see those stats of people changing over to alternative OS's....

We do have some numbers. If the major net traffic firms are to believed along with H8ters, Windows 8 is a catastrophe and what's more catastrophic than that is that no one has been capitalize on the Windows 8 catastrophe. Windows 8.1 is the fastest growing desktop OS by far and its growth seems to be accelerating.

And sure it's because you can only get a new PC with 8.1 on it. I'm sure when SteamOS is available for new PCs this will all change. Well on second thought, it probably won't.

 

[Teenk9]

My in-laws love Win8. Why? Because all the programs they use are in the Start screen: email, IE, FB, etc. I took out all the crap that they don't use. Guess what, they can't imagine ever going back to using the start button. It's all about presenting the information to them that makes sense, unfortunately alot of techies just cannot be bothered.

 

[Deepminer]

Yeah we're not gonna update XP for the general public anymore. We'll still help the shit out of companies that shower us with money, but as far as the poor folks who can't afford to upgrade: tuff titty.

*sigh*

 

[Ryokurin]

and the next step...
When will Microsoft cease production of 32-bit versions of new OSs?

They said during the beta of 8 that it would be the last version released in 32-bit.

 

[B00nie]

There's a lot more to be concerned about than local malware, web sites get hijacked all of the time and can compromise people without the need for local execution. But hey whatever works. I've found that it's simply a matter if people listen. When I setup non-admin accounts on 7/8 machines and tell people treat your PC like opening your door or answering your cell phone, have an idea who you're bringing into your house or calling you, especially on cells where charges can magically appear.

If you're online a lot and completely oblivious to any type of security, you're asking for trouble no matter the client.

There are no known drive-by exploits for linux and they have adblock and noscript running. So it would be a small miracle if something passed through.

The difference is that on linux they can do whatever they want with the computer with relative safety, on windows they would have to be cautious constantly and avoid certain pages alltogether - and even then they wouldn't be safe.

5-6 years without calls for support is a strong testament to the functionality of my approach. When they had Windows it was every few months or even weeks.

 

[Azhar]

They said during the beta of 8 that it would be the last version released in 32-bit.

Is the Bay Trail Atom 64-bit capable? I know I couldn't install 64-bit Windows 8 on Clovertrail Atom tablets. Haven't tried it on the Bay Trails.

 

[heatlesssun]

There are no known drive-by exploits for linux and they have adblock and noscript running. So it would be a small miracle if something passed through.

The difference is that on linux they can do whatever they want with the computer with relative safety, on windows they would have to be cautious constantly and avoid certain pages alltogether - and even then they wouldn't be safe.

5-6 years without calls for support is a strong testament to the functionality of my approach. When they had Windows it was every few months or even weeks.

Well they can't actually do a lot, like run easily any of the enormous Windows software library which does include a lot of malware unfortunately. Run generally as a non-admin users. don't open up email attachments that you don't know where they came from. It's not that big of deal for most people once they actually know about a few things.

You make it sound as though no one running Windows can be safe online. There's certainly many, many more seniors using Windows than Linux. I've setup a number of machines for older folks and the ones I've kept in contact with have very few problems.

But if all one wants to do is web surf and has no need for the best desktop software library there is then I do see the logic in using Linux for people with only these basic needs.

 

[heatlesssun]

Is the Bay Trail Atom 64-bit capable? I know I couldn't install 64-bit Windows 8 on Clovertrail Atom tablets. Haven't tried it on the Bay Trails.

They are but drivers for most existing Atoms will be an issue as they were only supported to run 32-bit. But 64-bit devices are starting to come out, I think the ThinkPad 10 runs 64-bit.

 

[Ryokurin]

Is the Bay Trail Atom 64-bit capable? I know I couldn't install 64-bit Windows 8 on Clovertrail Atom tablets. Haven't tried it on the Bay Trails.

Yes. Clovertrail is too, however connected standby only works in 32-bit right now, thus why there aren't any 64-bit windows tablets at the moment.

 

[Ryokurin]

No edit: 64-bit connected standby wasn't ready until Win 8.1. I don't know of a 64-bit tablet that's been released yet.

 

[aShrubbery!]

Linux will never be an alternative to Windows. It is easily the most confusing operating system I have ever used and I'm a computer tech. No common user will ever be able to use it. ...

Well, you're wrong!
I recently installed Linux Mint on the wife's laptop. She is quite illiterate when it comes to PC tech, yet she's been able to facebook, browse, e-mail, print crap off the net without any issue.
Basically, you couldn't find a more common user.

I remember a few years ago, where you had the use the console - even though you already had KDE, or the Gnome GUI - to install drivers. But things have changed quite a bit.
And for the record, I'm a Linux ignoramus myself.

 

[heatlesssun]

Well, you're wrong!
I recently installed Linux Mint on the wife's laptop. She is quite illiterate when it comes to PC tech, yet she's been able to facebook, browse, e-mail, print crap off the net without any issue.
Basically, you couldn't find a more common user.

I remember a few years ago, where you had the use the console - even though you already had KDE, or the Gnome GUI - to install drivers. But things have changed quite a bit.
And for the record, I'm a Linux ignoramus myself.

For basic PC stuff, Linux is fine. And it's been fine in that department for a long time. Web browsing, email, is that even a big deal now for any device or OS? The issue with Linux is doing anything beyond the basics, especially for the average user. Need to run Office, iTunes, a game, install some cheapo printer, use that new touchpad, etc. The fundamental problem with desktop Linux is that it simply doesn't have the user base to get the support needed to be mainstream on the desktop. Until that happens then sure, desktop Linux is great for web browsing to avoid Windows malware. But for that matter so are tablets or a Chromebook.

 

[aShrubbery!]

For basic PC stuff, Linux is fine. And it's been fine in that department for a long time. Web browsing, email, is that even a big deal now for any device or OS? The issue with Linux is doing anything beyond the basics, especially for the average user. Need to run Office, iTunes, a game, install some cheapo printer, use that new touchpad, etc. The fundamental problem with desktop Linux is that it simply doesn't have the user base to get the support needed to be mainstream on the desktop. Until that happens then sure, desktop Linux is great for web browsing to avoid Windows malware. But for that matter so are tablets or a Chromebook.

I will not disagree with that at all.

 

[B00nie]

Well they can't actually do a lot, like run easily any of the enormous Windows software library which does include a lot of malware unfortunately. Run generally as a non-admin users. don't open up email attachments that you don't know where they came from. It's not that big of deal for most people once they actually know about a few things.

You make it sound as though no one running Windows can be safe online. There's certainly many, many more seniors using Windows than Linux. I've setup a number of machines for older folks and the ones I've kept in contact with have very few problems.

But if all one wants to do is web surf and has no need for the best desktop software library there is then I do see the logic in using Linux for people with only these basic needs.

Yes my personal opinion is actually that nobody who uses windows is safe. I have seen too many computers with state of the art antiviruses, limited users etc. that were totally infected with malware and even viruses that I just lost all confidence in it.

I work with literally thousands of people in corporate environments and a surprisingly large portion of them work with infected computers and don't seem to care. They have become bored with the bureaucracy of the company and tech support and don't want to spend time fixing the computer.

Then there are the private users among which the infection rate is even higher as they practically never run as standard users, use free AVs and have risky web site habbits. Older women are the worst because they engage in chain mailing activities.

 

[B00nie]

The issue with Linux is doing anything beyond the basics, especially for the average user. Need to run Office, iTunes, a game, install some cheapo printer, use that new touchpad, etc.

This part I don't get. Most printers install plug&play on linux, some require a couple of minutes of driver searching. Office suite is included in nearly every distro by default, Libreoffice handles anything a regular user ever needs. I prefer using Libreoffice over MS Office since MS messed the user interface up. I have been using Libreoffice and Numbers app for years at work and I never missed having Office. Actually I cringe when I have to touch Office at customers computers, it's so unfriendly with the ribbon interface that takes up half the screen in some cases lol and in some cases the new Office versions were horribly laggy to use. I distinctly remember typing an e-mail using the new Outlook and each letter appeared on the screen with a 50-60ms delay.

iTunes can be run as windows version on linux (although I hear its not easy) in any way if you're part of the Apple ecosystem you should use Apple devices, period. Linux has multiple alternatives for iTunes software wise, only the music store has more limited offering.

iPhones can be connected to linux for direct file access by simply pairing the device, no jailbreak required. Funny enough, linux gives you a direct access to your files that OSX doesn't.

Same goes probably with any touchpads. I haven't researched these a lot since I own Apple hardware for all needs, iMac, MBPs, iPads, iPhones and naturally they're used best with genuine Apple products.

Linux is a great alternative to those who can't afford Apple.

 

[Semantics]

Without excel many people I've worked with only ever consider it and rightfully so, MS excel has no real equivalents.

There are also a whole host of other software that just doesn't have support on linux, for a general young user lack of support for games would be a hassle. And productivity in general is lackluster, want to know what's pathetic linux conferences are never streamed by linux machines there just isn't the software there to do it. For many professionals that use computers heavily in their work linux is never viable.

As for devices like iphones etc, direct access means no guided gui, means higher entry level to do basic tasks that would otherwise be mindless. The avg user doesn't like having to look up what is what.

Granted there is a segment that could easily use linux if linux was preset up for them, people who just want the surf the web and have basic productivity such as just using a basic word processor or even google docs to supplement the work. But good luck selling to that market, who is generally computer illiterate and will buy something familiar like windows or mac any day of the week.

The lack of visibility and general high computer literacy with the linux population is the only reason why linux suffers little to none security issues, small target not worth it. Although with phishing don't even care what the OS is. Linux is far from fort knox in terms of security and the biggest cause of problems with mac or windows and security is the user who will run shady programs and click past any security which would occur on any platform.

 

[B00nie]

Without excel many people I've worked with only ever consider it and rightfully so, MS excel has no real equivalents.

I'm sorry but what exactly can you do in Excel that you can't do in Libreoffice Calc?

There are also a whole host of other software that just doesn't have support on linux, for a general young user lack of support for games would be a hassle.

Granted, gaming is not linuxes strongpoint although its improving with more native games being released on Steam. I'm playing World of tanks weekly on my ElementaryOS, 1 click install with Playonlinux.

And productivity in general is lackluster, want to know what's pathetic linux conferences are never streamed by linux machines there just isn't the software there to do it. For many professionals that use computers heavily in their work linux is never viable.

Bullshit. Shoutcast, flumotion etc. are available for streaming for example. Where did you get the information that linux conferences would not be streamed using them?

As for devices like iphones etc, direct access means no guided gui, means higher entry level to do basic tasks that would otherwise be mindless. The avg user doesn't like having to look up what is what.

And how does this differ from any windows based solution? With Nokia for example you have to browse the file folders. Android same deal. Only iTunes puts an abstraction layer on top of everything and even that works on linux once you pair your phone to it.

Granted there is a segment that could easily use linux if linux was preset up for them, people who just want the surf the web and have basic productivity such as just using a basic word processor or even google docs to supplement the work. But good luck selling to that market, who is generally computer illiterate and will buy something familiar like windows or mac any day of the week.

Linux is enough for the vast majority of home users who use their computers mostly for browsing the internet, playing online games, do internet banking and perhaps print something once in a while and watch home photos and videos. Best of all, it's the most secure banking platform and all software you need is free. I know this for a fact because I've migrated my parents successfully to linux, there's nothing it can't do that they need.

The lack of visibility and general high computer literacy with the linux population is the only reason why linux suffers little to none security issues, small target not worth it. Although with phishing don't even care what the OS is. Linux is far from fort knox in terms of security and the biggest cause of problems with mac or windows and security is the user who will run shady programs and click past any security which would occur on any platform.

With Linux the users do not need to resort into loading warez like Windows and Mac users sometimes do. That by itself makes it way more secure. Add in completely different approaches to security such as never running as the admin users by default, linux is much more secure for the average user. Windows then again by default always runs as admin and people do get infected using it even if they were on a limited account.

I repeat: As long as my parents were on Windows, they had the need for support every few weeks at worst. On linux I haven't had to do literally anything to their computers anymore. They just work.

 

[dgz]

Linux is a great alternative to those who can't afford Apple.

Apple is for idiots. Their OS treats you like the moron you for buying it in the first place.

 

[heatlesssun]

Yes my personal opinion is actually that nobody who uses windows is safe. I have seen too many computers with state of the art antiviruses, limited users etc. that were totally infected with malware and even viruses that I just lost all confidence in it.

I work with literally thousands of people in corporate environments and a surprisingly large portion of them work with infected computers and don't seem to care. They have become bored with the bureaucracy of the company and tech support and don't want to spend time fixing the computer.

Then there are the private users among which the infection rate is even higher as they practically never run as standard users, use free AVs and have risky web site habbits. Older women are the worst because they engage in chain mailing activities.

So all Windows PCs are infected with malware and people just blissfully ignore it and it's impossible to well protect a Windows PC? You here anecdotes all of the time about this and for many years the Linux and Open Source community has pushed about how wonderful it's security is compared to Windows and then things like Heartbleed popup.

Linux on the desktop enjoys security through obscurity and that's cool but if Linux had 90% of the desktop market then that goes by the wayside. It's not that difficult to protect oneself against the vast majority of Windows malware. But it does take some effort. However if the idea is that just use Linux and then just click on everything without have at least some awareness of what is going is risky at best. There's plenty of attacks that don't need local code execution like phishing and so forth.

 

[B00nie]

So all Windows PCs are infected with malware and people just blissfully ignore it and it's impossible to well protect a Windows PC? You here anecdotes all of the time about this and for many years the Linux and Open Source community has pushed about how wonderful it's security is compared to Windows and then things like Heartbleed popup.

Linux on the desktop enjoys security through obscurity and that's cool but if Linux had 90% of the desktop market then that goes by the wayside. It's not that difficult to protect oneself against the vast majority of Windows malware. But it does take some effort. However if the idea is that just use Linux and then just click on everything without have at least some awareness of what is going is risky at best. There's plenty of attacks that don't need local code execution like phishing and so forth.

If there are 10 linux attacks vs 10 000 000 windows attacks, you can say you have won the lottery if you manage to find one.

 

[B00nie]

Apple is for idiots. Their OS treats you like the moron you for buying it in the first place.

Look in the mirror. You're only pissed because you can't afford one.

Granted, I wouldn't pay Apple prices either unless I got everything free through work.