Windows 8 Users - Do You Use a Start Menu Replacement?

[heatlesssun]

It works fine on touch devices, too. On my 10" tablet I just pin frequently-used apps at the top. There's no need for the Modern-UI abortion at all.

Not even on a touch device? It's said by a lot of folks that Microsoft doesn't listen but the Start Menu had been around for years on touch devices including tablets and the Windows desktop has never been considered to be touch friendly. It can be workable if you know what you're doing but there's absolutely no way I'd rather use something like the Start Menu versus the Start Screen on a tablet.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

Not even on a touch device? It's said by a lot of folks that Microsoft doesn't listen but the Start Menu had been around for years on touch devices including tablets and the Windows desktop has never been considered to be touch friendly. It can be workable if you know what you're doing but there's absolutely no way I'd rather use something like the Start Menu versus the Start Screen on a tablet.

I said it was fine on my 10" tablet. We've talked about this before. The two key problems with older Windows touch devices were:
A: Poor performance
B: Resistive touch screens

Remember those hybrid tablet-laptops from the late 2000's? Even on my college roommate's 17" HP I found it nearly impossible to 'click' anything with my finger, and even the stylus wasn't all that accurate.

Capacitive screens have fixed this problem. On a 10" device like mine I find the Start Menu is perfectly usable. You don't actually need to use the fly-out menus, there's plenty of room to pin your apps to the taskbar and/or main start menu (how many apps do you normally run on a tablet anyway?). If you do need to use the fly-out menus to get to something it's not difficult at all. It's only when you get below 7" that you really need a different UI.

What I find aggravating is that Microsoft could have seamlessly integrated Metro in a complimentary way. Imagine if you could 'swipe' into Metro by swiping in the screen up (or down). Now you have the good old start menu and a full-screen app launcher, a UI that can be used on any device in any situation with no retraining needed for desktop users. It really seems to me that Microsoft forced Metro and created this whole disaster because they were more interested in generating new revenue from an app store than actually making the best possible product for their users.

 

[tejpis]

I don't use a replacer but I do prefer the start menu. I just don't want to have to rely on 3rd party software, especially if it's not open source.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

I don't use a replacer but I do prefer the start menu. I just don't want to have to rely on 3rd party software, especially if it's not open source.

ClassicShell is free and up to version 3.9.0 is open source. It also predates all of the $5 payware Win8 start menu apps that do the same thing, it was originally developed for customizing Windows 7.

 

[Milena]

I don't miss the start menu at all, always found it cluttered. Most users don't work with more than 8-10 applications on a daily basis and I have mine pinned on the taskbar, much better than navigating through menus.

 

[Biznatch]

I don't miss the start menu at all, always found it cluttered. Most users don't work with more than 8-10 applications on a daily basis and I have mine pinned on the taskbar, much better than navigating through menus.

This.... Yet those same users still cry about the start menu being gone and how the new interface is only useable with touch... If they just spent an hour customizing the start screen/taskbar they would be far far more efficient, but that requires change.... And whining is so much easier than change right?

 

[schizrade]

No. Then again, I just hit the windows key and start typing if I need something not on the task bar. I rarely fish through windows 7 or 8 start menus. waste of effort. Just kit key and type.

I love the right click on the windows icon to pull up utilities.

 

[Ur_Mom]

This.... Yet those same users still cry about the start menu being gone and how the new interface is only useable with touch... If they just spent an hour customizing the start screen/taskbar they would be far far more efficient, but that requires change.... And whining is so much easier than change right?

This is a major reason why I dislike the Start Screen. Those that don't like it are treated like the above. Even if they have valid complaints, they are spit on. I'm a Microsoft fanboy, and I love Windows 8 and the Start Screen. But, people like the above really make me have second thoughts. It's worse than Linux fanboys.

Can't people not like it because they don't like it? Really? People need to accept that it's not a 100% perfect solution for everybody. It never will be. Some people will not like it. And it's not because they don't like change. That counter argument is stupid and it makes Microsoft fanboys look like asshats.

 

[heatlesssun]

I said it was fine on my 10" tablet. We've talked about this before. The two key problems with older Windows touch devices were:
A: Poor performance
B: Resistive touch screens

Remember those hybrid tablet-laptops from the late 2000's? Even on my college roommate's 17" HP I found it nearly impossible to 'click' anything with my finger, and even the stylus wasn't all that accurate.

Capacitive screens have fixed this problem. On a 10" device like mine I find the Start Menu is perfectly usable. You don't actually need to use the fly-out menus, there's plenty of room to pin your apps to the taskbar and/or main start menu (how many apps do you normally run on a tablet anyway?). If you do need to use the fly-out menus to get to something it's not difficult at all. It's only when you get below 7" that you really need a different UI.

It's just that there is a long history of the Windows desktop on touch devices of a wide rage of sizes and capabilities and I've just never seen touch considered generally to be a great experience by most people. Sure, things can work, but when compared to modern tablet OSes, the Start Menu just isn't a general user solution.

I've spent and spend a great deal of time using the Windows desktop with touch, it's second nature to me, but I've been doing long before people had iPads and Android tablets. And it doesn't hold a candle to the modern UI with touch. The Start Screen is far superior to the Start Menu with touch if for no other reason it's easy to use for most people using touch. These 8" Bay Trail tablets that seem to have been well received and one of the brightest spots for 8 certainly needed something like the Start Screen to be effective for touch tablet use.

What I find aggravating is that Microsoft could have seamlessly integrated Metro in a complimentary way. Imagine if you could 'swipe' into Metro by swiping in the screen up (or down). Now you have the good old start menu and a full-screen app launcher, a UI that can be used on any device in any situation with no retraining needed for desktop users. It really seems to me that Microsoft forced Metro and created this whole disaster because they were more interested in generating new revenue from an app store than actually making the best possible product for their users.

The whole retraining thing is overblown IF one is using desktop apps. Melding the two UIs even in your scenario would require some learning if used side by side. I agree that things need to be better integrated and more familiar to keyboard and mouse users. I think with options like a mini-Start Screen and windowed modern apps, that takes care of the large bulk of it.

 

[heatlesssun]

This is a major reason why I dislike the Start Screen. Those that don't like it are treated like the above. Even if they have valid complaints, they are spit on. I'm a Microsoft fanboy, and I love Windows 8 and the Start Screen. But, people like the above really make me have second thoughts. It's worse than Linux fanboys.

Can't people not like it because they don't like it? Really? People need to accept that it's not a 100% perfect solution for everybody. It never will be. Some people will not like it. And it's not because they don't like change. That counter argument is stupid and it makes Microsoft fanboys look like asshats.

There's a complicated mix of issues going on here. Everything from resistance to change to changes that could have been made easier to deal with for existing keyboard and mouse to better in the box training to users not understanding basic elements these changes.

I don't think that most people take issue with one not liking the new UI. If one doesn't like it then they don't like it. But there's a LOT of complaints from folks that clearly aren't using it daily and there's a lot of bad information that gets into these discussions. Like the idea that it takes all these extra mouse clicks to do something in 8.x and half the time its because people were unaware of the Quick Menu and how to access it. Yes, Windows 8 has its problems, but they are often overhyped by those that just don't use it much and try to avoid the modern UI and haven't looked at what's really there.

 

[swatbat]

I've put classic shell on most clients systems that have 8 deployed.

Myself I use the new interface. It is not my primary system and I figured I'd force myself to learn the new setup. With the all apps button I just don't have a problem with it.

 

[tejpis]

This.... Yet those same users still cry about the start menu being gone and how the new interface is only useable with touch... If they just spent an hour customizing the start screen/taskbar they would be far far more efficient, but that requires change.... And whining is so much easier than change right?

I have mine customized but I still have to move my mouse around the entire screen to open different programs. With the Start Menu it's much more reachable and I really gain nothing from Metro, just bigger icons. It's just less efficient.