• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Windows 7 and DRM ?

C

Capt_Scarlet

n00b
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
11
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/16/2259257

Is this a real problem with Win 7 or just FUD and a user problem ?

John

edit: After reading some of the comments it sounds more like user error and fud. It's easy to see how fud spreads as I found this article because someone on another forum had posted a warning to Win 7 users. The comment "Don't believe everything you read on the net" comes to mind.
 
yeah, wasn't even an article, just a random front page blurb by some zealot.
 
I think that some in the Linux community are scared of Windows 7 plain and simple. Windows 7 fixes pretty much all of the biggest issues of Vista with perhaps the biggest one being performance.

I was shocked by how well Windows 7 Build 7022 on an Atom N 230 netbook. Overall I think it was faster than the XP that came with it but with more features like Aero and the like. The one are where Linux was finally making a inroad in the consumer market was netbooks. XP has since its introduction has killed Linux machines (plus the introduction of HD drive based models). Now that Windows 7 runs extremely well on these devices, Linux is now really a solution in search of a problem on these devices.
Linux might do well on the cheapest of the cheap and while Linux is probably going to faster it won't have the big advantage it would or Vista. So the big issue is going to pricing.

I will check out some conversion applications to see how they work in 7. They worked fine in Vista so I wouldn't expect much difference but I could be wrong.
 
Linux zealots love to fling FUD just as much as the Microsoft ones (and indeed Microsoft's marketing people) however there's some truth hiding here.

This paper is a good overview.
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

Synopsis: Vista will often prevent you from recording or outputting high-bitrate content even if it's not "premium content", and Microsoft retains the ability to revoke driver certs if a DRM leak occurs, essentially disabling your video card. Video drivers restart (ever seen the black screen, then "your video system was recovered") when the 'tilt bits' they monitor have unexpected values. (Crash by design) Windows wastes CPU cycles by constantly polling the security of encrypted content paths.

I expect Win 7 will have a lot of the same things in it. And yes, Win7 fights back against Linux in a big way, especially in the Netbook market. I swore up and down that Vista was the beginning of the end for Microsoft but things are just getting warmed up. Competition is a very good thing.
 
That Gutmann article recieved a lot a scrutiny from all sides and I really have no idea what it means. AnyDVD and a number of other DRM defeating technology work in Vista just fine so at I think a lot this article is intellectual mumbo jumbo.
 
kdawson is a douche. Filter out his stories and you save yourself the hassle of possibly seeing his straight-from-firehose bs.
 
heatlesssun said:
That Gutmann article recieve a lot a scrutiny from all sides and I really have no idea what it means. AnyDVD and a number of other DRM defeating technology in Vista just fine so at I think a lot this article is intellectual mumbo jumbo.
Click to expand...

The entire article is BS. I don't think there is a single point in it that turned out to be true.
 
The whole Vista/Windows 7 DRM Infestation thing is a load of utter bullshit. Compete horse manure meant specifically for throwing.

I've been using Vista for about 8-9 months now, and have never encountered a DRM related problem. In fact, I've never even seen any sort of sensible technical elaboration of what DRM Vista actually contains. Until I hear a good, detailed explanation of what sort of DRM problems Windows Vista and Windows 7 have, anybody who says anything about Windows having DRM will be completely discredited on all technology related matters, in my book.
 
The user who mentioned this on another forum replied

Yes, it is a sensational article coming from the site that is known to publish such material.

The only reason I'm reposting it is ending up with quite a few 'neutered' wav files (used for RS sound packs!) and having Vista prevent me from playing some music which was stored in WAV format, insisting that I must contact [the RIAA?] to acquire 'usage rights' for it. If someone gets a change to test the RTM of Win 7 and report that they are not having strange issues related to sound among other things, good, but until then I'll retain my suspicions.
Click to expand...

Anyone ever see Vista telling the user to contact the RIAA or rights holder? I haven't but then I never play around with music or wav files.

John
 
It's entirely too easy these days to bad mouth something and then have 250,000 people agree with nary a thought about "Hey, wait, what if this person that's making this claim is an all-out idiotic boob just looking for more hits on his blog?" and before you know it, his Google AdSense account payout for the day just quadrupled.

Bleh.

DRM should stand for Doesn't Really Matter, because it doesn't.
 
Capt_Scarlet said:
The user who mentioned this on another forum replied



Anyone ever see Vista telling the user to contact the RIAA or rights holder? I haven't but then I never play around with music or wav files.

John
Click to expand...

Never. And I use a great deal of audio and video formats. I have an HTPC setup to play any format. Never had that happen.
 
And that same thing exists on every DVR out there. Your satellite boxes, your cables boxes, Tivo's. It's on all of them. The thing is no content provider has officially set those flags.
 
No, that's a Broadcast flag that's been in TV for a long time that affects Media Center recording. That's not some scary Vista thing, that's an industry standard.
 
panhead said:
Vista/Win7 users keep your head buried in the sand.
The DRM infastructure is in the OS ready to be used by anyone. Once the flags are enabled you are SOL.

http://arstechnica.com/old/content/...rotection-snafu-reminds-us-why-drm-stinks.ars

Since you do not know what all of the protected processes running on your Vista/Server2K8/Win7 PC are executing, your PC is really just a media player that can run windows software.
Click to expand...

This was a Windows Media Center issue, it didn't have anything to do with the DRM in core of the OS. I record shows in OTA HDTV and analog cable EVERY day in Media Center, have for years, maybe in that time I had about 5 things not record due some technical issue, never a DRM problem. And its not like I don't have 12 other DVR apps available. Oh and by the way the article talks about DRM restrictions that DirecTV put on its stuff as well.

This is typical FUD. There's more pirated stuff on Windows (software and content) than all others OS'es combined by a factor of close to 100.

So tell me where the problem is? I can do all the things I want to with media on my Vista systems I want to. So can everyone else here. The truth. Period.
 
All I had to see was who posted the link to Ars... that was enough for me to dismiss the entire post instantly. ;)
 
The anti-Windows crowd is getting scared. They must being seeing how Windows 7 is wowing people over and seeing all the major flaws with Vista just disappear. Linux no longer has a big performance advantage over Windows 7 in netbooks, the only consumer desktop market (and by desktop I mean desktop/laptop/neetbook) that Linux ever got any foothold and now that's about to go bye bye.

The anti-Microsoft crowed has for years told of how great their stuff. The openess, the freedom, the cost savings? It just isn't working and now there's nothing left be to frighten people and call the ignorant and stupid.
 
The only thing that really scares me about winders 7 is the Fing price.
$350....this is a super rip off.
IF everyone had a brain and refused to pay it, it would come down real quick.
BUT we have fan boys that will whoooooo look what I have...whooooo

So we are going to get the SHAFT from MS

ps there is plenty of drm in all versions of ms os...they are paid to put it in.
If you don't believe it or you don't think read above.
 
No pricing has been announced for windows 7.

Linux or OSX fanboys complain about DRM in windows but there is no more in Vista or 7 than there is in XP. And none of it has ever prevented anyone from doing anything with their software. No matter how illegal it may be.

Paid to put it in? No. And it's not DRM, it's support for media with DRM so it can play. OSX also has DRM so it's itunes DRM'd content can play. It's really no different. Your set top Blu-Ray players have it, your satellite boxes have it, etc.

The ONLY way you could possibly be affected by it is if you have protected content you wish to play. And then it just plays with supported players. So there really is no issue. You can still play all your pirated content without issue.
 
No prices have been officially announced or set in stone yet so don't go nutsz0re and start spamming FUD and generally inaccurate information will ya... geez.

You're not gonna get anything from Microsoft unless you choose to buy it, so... the whole SHAFT thing is a bit worn out. Nobody is forcing you to do or buy anything, move on.
 
sparks said:
The only thing that really scares me about winders 7 is the Fing price.
$350....this is a super rip off.
IF everyone had a brain and refused to pay it, it would come down real quick.
BUT we have fan boys that will whoooooo look what I have...whooooo

So we are going to get the SHAFT from MS

ps there is plenty of drm in all versions of ms os...they are paid to put it in.
If you don't believe it or you don't think read above.
Click to expand...

So shop around and find a bargain? People complained the same thing about Vista prices and I doubt if anyone paid $300 for it after all. OEM versions. Upgrade version trick. Student version. Get it with your new PC. And so on.

As for Microsoft being paid for DRM, prove it. They have to include it or Blu-ray and other protected media won't work! It has nothing to do with controlling your computer. If it was so illegal to do so, AnyDVD and various other ripping software wouldn't exist!
 
Azhar, you're beating a dead horse... let it go. We've dealt with people like this thousands of times, it always ends the same way... it's not worth it since ignorance and stupidity are the majority. Be happy you're part of The 1% Club and go have some fun... :D
 
Joe Average said:
Azhar, you're beating a dead horse... let it go. We've dealt with people like this thousands of times, it always ends the same way... it's not worth it since ignorance and stupidity are the majority. Be happy you're part of The 1% Club and go have some fun... :D
Click to expand...

*kicks the dead horse for good measure* :-P

ok I'm done. ;)
 
Azhar said:
*kicks the dead horse for good measure* :-P

ok I'm done. ;)
Click to expand...

BeatDeadHorse.gif
 
the only DRM in windows is that which will allow you tp play DRM content, period, end of it, i wont stop you from playing anything that wasnt meant to be played.

i stopped reading crapdot.com ages ago when i quickly realized that if it isnt linux it sucks attittude.

*now stay down you dam horse!*

Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg




okay i couldnt stop (i really need more pain meds for my wisdom teeth they make me cranky)

The only thing that really scares me about winders 7 is the Fing price.
$350....this is a super rip off.
IF everyone had a brain and refused to pay it, it would come down real quick.
BUT we have fan boys that will whoooooo look what I have...whooooo

So we are going to get the SHAFT from MS

ps there is plenty of drm in all versions of ms os...they are paid to put it in.
If you don't believe it or you don't think read above.
Click to expand...

$350? who said you had to get the super uber elite edition (they have sub $150 versions), get a clue man, also if it is so cheap to make an OS cant wait for yours to hit shelves!
 
Joe Average said:
All I had to see was who posted the link to Ars... that was enough for me to dismiss the entire post instantly. ;)
Click to expand...

Hi Joe,

Could you please tell me what the following protected processes are doing in Vista?

audiodg.exe
mfpmp.exe
WerFault.exe
WerFaultSecure.exe
wermgr.exe

If you can answer this question, please tell me how you have determined what these processes are doing?
 
panhead said:
Hi Joe,

Could you please tell me what the following protected processes are doing in Vista?

audiodg.exe
mfpmp.exe
WerFault.exe
WerFaultSecure.exe
wermgr.exe

If you can answer this question, please tell me how you have determined what these processes are doing?
Click to expand...

The first two services are part on the Protected Media path DRM technology. They are supposed to prevent the media audio/visual media streams being sent to non-encrypted paths and they really only affect technology actually has encrypted streams. Of course how it actually does this isn't an open spec and thats because Sony and the like want it that way.

The other services are related to Windows Error Reporting and can be turned off I believe.
 
As others have said that "article" is just FUD. It sounds more like someone who has no idea what they are doing. They give no details about what it is going on, they don't know that the firewall worked the same way in XP, and they don't understand how to use the new audio interface (well new if he was on XP before, which it would appear he was). I still have no idea HOW that got on the front page. It is just full of fail. I mean it isn't even a story, no article, no details... nothing.


As far as I can tell he used some random cracked dll (with no info on if it worked under XP or Wine or anything else) and the app didn't load... How is that DRM? Sometimes things don't work when you randomly change files they use. He obviously doesn't understand that the firewall worked the same way in XP. He doesn't know how to use the audio control panel. He doesn't have any idea how permissions and folders work and is confusing that with DRM for some unknown reason. He has no details. In short, PEBKAC.
 
heatlesssun said:
The first two services are part on the Protected Media path DRM technology. They are supposed to prevent the media audio/visual media streams being sent to non-encrypted paths and they really only affect technology actually has encrypted streams. Of course how it actually does this isn't an open spec and thats because Sony and the like want it that way.

The other services are related to Windows Error Reporting and can be turned off I believe.
Click to expand...

How did you determine this information?
 
the_b_man said:
Linux zealots love to fling FUD just as much as the Microsoft ones (and indeed Microsoft's marketing people) however there's some truth hiding here.

This paper is a good overview.
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

Synopsis: Vista will often prevent you from recording or outputting high-bitrate content even if it's not "premium content", and Microsoft retains the ability to revoke driver certs if a DRM leak occurs, essentially disabling your video card. Video drivers restart (ever seen the black screen, then "your video system was recovered") when the 'tilt bits' they monitor have unexpected values. (Crash by design) Windows wastes CPU cycles by constantly polling the security of encrypted content paths.

I expect Win 7 will have a lot of the same things in it. And yes, Win7 fights back against Linux in a big way, especially in the Netbook market. I swore up and down that Vista was the beginning of the end for Microsoft but things are just getting warmed up. Competition is a very good thing.
Click to expand...


God, I can't believe people still bring this BS link up.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=673
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=284

Even the recent Ars response to the /. post points out the flaws of that link.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top