Windows 10: Upgrade Now or Upgrade Tonight

[ManofGod]

Read in my hometown newspaper the other day that the local library is having classes to show people how to install Linux on their computers. A small, very conservative town with not must trust in the Feds or big corporations. That doesn't bode well as these are not tech literate folks by any stretch--that they would prefer free Linux to free Windows.

In years past they offered classes on how to install and use the newest Windows OS. This is the first time I've seen them switching to Linux. The bad news is everywhere if it has made it to the hinterlands of Texas.

Hope they offer free classes and free tech support when those folks want to switch back to Windows. Or when the graphics drivers do not work and all you get is a black screen. Or the programs and games they used all along do not work anymore. Good luck.

 

[ccman]

Hope they offer free classes and free tech support when those folks want to switch back to Windows. Or when the graphics drivers do not work and all you get is a black screen. Or the programs and games they used all along do not work anymore. Good luck.

Wow. You know the discussion has gotten salty and bitter when you're criticizing a freely offered class.

"Or when the graphics drivers do not work and all you get is a black screen." sounds like a specifically Windows 10 problem that Microsoft has a helpful troubleshooting page for: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/troubleshoot-black-screen-problems

Look, there is a place for Linux. ChromeOS in particular might be good for some who only browse the web (or maybe invading students' privacy? http://www.hardocp.com/news/2015/12/01/google_invading_student_privacy_chromebooks#.VnQRZr89670?)

 

[ManofGod]

Wow. You know the discussion has gotten salty and bitter when you're criticizing a freely offered class.

"Or when the graphics drivers do not work and all you get is a black screen." sounds like a specifically Windows 10 problem that Microsoft has a helpful troubleshooting page for: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/troubleshoot-black-screen-problems

Look, there is a place for Linux. ChromeOS in particular might be good for some who only browse the web (or maybe invading students' privacy? http://www.hardocp.com/news/2015/12/01/google_invading_student_privacy_chromebooks#.VnQRZr89670?)

Not really, just stating a fact of what will happen for some folks. You cannot offer something and then basically say, you have problems with Linux? Tough! Sorry but, we said we are not responsible for any problems you may incur. I have no issues if someone wants to use Linux but lets get real, we are not talking about a free class to the technical elite.

 

[ManofGod]

Wow. You know the discussion has gotten salty and bitter when you're criticizing a freely offered class.

"Or when the graphics drivers do not work and all you get is a black screen." sounds like a specifically Windows 10 problem that Microsoft has a helpful troubleshooting page for: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/troubleshoot-black-screen-problems

Look, there is a place for Linux. ChromeOS in particular might be good for some who only browse the web (or maybe invading students' privacy? http://www.hardocp.com/news/2015/12/01/google_invading_student_privacy_chromebooks#.VnQRZr89670?)

Ah, never mind, I just realized who I was responding too, move along, nothing to see here.

 

[heatlesssun]

The specific issue is with the Windows 10 Privacy Agreement: “We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to protect our customers or enforce the terms governing the use of the services.”

This statement specifically applies to the operating system itself, whether or not you have signed up for a Microsoft Account and whether or not you have Cortana, et al enabled.

This privacy policy is not Windows 10 specific. All of these services are optional and cross platform so the same language for instanct would apply to a Linux user using an Outlook account.

Basically, by using Windows 10, you are agreeing that Microsoft may access any data -- including PHI -- on your computer when they have a "good faith belief that doing so is necessary."

You're not agreeing to Microsoft arbitrarily uploading personal files. In the default state it could send some local data to Microsoft as part of the telemetry on levels beyond basic.

Unless your organization can get Microsoft to sign a separate HIPAA vendor agreement regarding the OS itself and agreeing not to divulge any PHI they may encounter, then you are NOT in compliance if you are using the OS.

Wouldn't this also apply to Windows 7 if one were using Windows Update and MSRT?

 

[ccman]

Ah, never mind, I just realized who I was responding too, move along, nothing to see here.

Tell me who you think you're responding to. Since you're going the personal route, I'm curious where you're headed with this.

 

[heatlesssun]

Look, there is a place for Linux. ChromeOS in particular might be good for some who only browse the web (or maybe invading students' privacy? http://www.hardocp.com/news/2015/12/01/google_invading_student_privacy_chromebooks#.VnQRZr89670?)

I don't think anyone is arguing that there isn't a place for things on the desktop. However, when it comes to hardware and software in the x86 client world, nothing comes close to Windows. If one isn't into games, needs top line commercial software or doesn't care about the latest and greatest in x86 hardware, then the alternatives might work very well for that person.

 

[texuspete00]

A put my old i7 920 box up as a Win 7 MCE pc a couple months ago. Is there a chance it could upgrade and make itself worthless to me without my knowledge? Sometimes it will go untouched by me for a week or two, basically waking up to record shows. All these types of news scare me it can upgrade unprompted. I will certainly be looking into the removal suggestions. Thanks.

 

[mnewxcv]

A put my old i7 920 box up as a Win 7 MCE pc a couple months ago. Is there a chance it could upgrade and make itself worthless to me without my knowledge? Sometimes it will go untouched by me for a week or two, basically waking up to record shows. All these types of news scare me it can upgrade unprompted. I will certainly be looking into the removal suggestions. Thanks.

if its a MCE box, I would just turn off automatic updates. That being said, no, it should not upgrade to win10 unless you agreed to it (though it may prompt you to do so when you use it)

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

Ah, never mind, I just realized who I was responding too, move along, nothing to see here.

Translation: I know I can't make a rational point so I'll just attack the person and the run away until there's a another post that looks like an easier target for my emotion-based aggressive arguing style...because testosterone.

 

[ccman]

if its a MCE box, I would just turn off automatic updates. That being said, no, it should not upgrade to win10 unless you agreed to it (though it may prompt you to do so when you use it)

Aside from Microsoft "accidentally" changing Windows 10 from an optional update to a recommended update, I haven't heard about Windows 10 being installed without user choice or intervention. The user would have had to use "Recommended settings" for Windows Update or enable an option for it to happen.

Microsoft seems to plan to change Windows 10 from an optional update to a recommended update sometime in the future, so check to make sure "Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates" is unchecked at the very least in Control Panel ( - System and Security) - Windows Update - Change settings. If Microsoft really wanted to be nasty, they would change Windows 10 to an important update.

Second, you might want to uninstall and hide the GWX update (KB3035583 for Windows 7 SP1), but others have said it gets revised, which causes it to show up again and possibly get installed.

If you want to go further, you can uninstall the Windows Telemetry and GWX updates (example script: https://gist.github.com/xvitaly/eafa75ed2cb79b3bd4e9). People also seem to be served well by GWX Control Panel, but it's third party: http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/.

The furthest I've seen people go is to "Turn automatic updating on or off" - "Never check for updates (not recommended)" and set the "Background Intelligent Transfer Service" and "Windows Update" services to disabled. I wouldn't do that, as I would still want critical and security updates, if nothing else.

 

[ccman]

To clarify, this story states that to see the "Upgrade Now" or "Upgrade Tonight" window, the user has to click the Windows icon (Get Windows 10 [GWX] icon) on the system tray.

Right now, "Upgrade to Windows 10" is delivered as an Optional Update in Windows Update. The Windows Update windows that I have seen announcing Windows 10 still gives you an option to "Show all available updates". I haven't seen all scenarios and haven't tried setting up different scenarios myself.

In the future, Microsoft will make "Upgrade to Windows 10" an important update. To avoid automatically installing this update, check your settings: is Windows Update set to "Install updates automatically (recommended)"? Uncheck "Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates" to make sure you don't accidentally install it.

 

[xorbe]

Ugh, KB3035583 has re-installed itself on all my Win7 machines.

 

[DPI]

Ugh, KB3035583 has re-installed itself on all my Win7 machines.

 

[Domingow]

Ugh, KB3035583 has re-installed itself on all my Win7 machines.

Glad someone else confirmed this...I thought I was going crazy for a moment.

 

[heatlesssun]

In the future, Microsoft will make "Upgrade to Windows 10" an important update. To avoid automatically installing this update, check your settings: is Windows Update set to "Install updates automatically (recommended)"? Uncheck "Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates" to make sure you don't accidentally install it.

Paul Thurrott blogged about this today and as big of fan he's been of Windows 10 and dismissive of the Windows 10 privacy debate even he said that this was a bad idea.

I certainly don't think that Windows machines prior should just be upgraded without consent. And it's pretty clear that Microsoft is being hyper-aggressive with Windows 10 upgrades and that's not a good thing for people that don't want to upgrade. But even last week I got an inquiry about upgrading a Windows 7 machine to Windows 10.

All of personal machines are on 10, save my 8.1 WMC machine that's been down for while, my work laptop is on 7, but a well maintained Enterprise version of it, so no upgrade nagware to 10 has ever appeared on that machine. So I personally can't relate to this problem but I do completely get people not wanting this major of change to just happen on their devices.

I'm in the Thurrott camp and see this a much bigger issue than the privacy debate.

 

[ccman]

I don't understand Microsoft's philosophy with the way they've handled Windows 10, so it is of some comfort to hear that others struggle with Microsoft's decisions as well.

For many, price has implications of value. I would need to dig to pull specifics. There are stories or studies about a product doing better when sold at a small nominal price than when given away for free. Game developers have found that customers will tend to give a game a better chance, play longer, and in many cases give better reviews when they've paid full price than when picked up on a Steam sale for example. Again, price affects psychology. Another implication is the razor-razorblade model, (most) video game consoles, the Kindle model, free-to-play/DLC/pay-to-Win (pun), etc. Since I'm talking about perception and psychology, I am not asserting these are accurate, just possible points of view. I think Mac OS X (recently), iOS, and Android set the expectation that the operating system is free with the device and only available with the device (except AOSP), so they've mostly avoided this trap.

Malware companies have used methods like placing obscuring elements on webpages (MSN and Microsoft sites) telling you you need to upgrade. They have piggy-backed their software with software users had been trying to legitimately download telling them they need to download other software, optimize their computer, keep their computer clean and up to date, etc. Consumers who have been bitten with these scams or have heard of their peers being tricked like this have a negative association in their mind for these tactics. Legitimate though it may be, Microsoft's delivery presents like tactics malware vendors have used to infect Windows. Seems like a bad idea. I don't have a better alternative for reaching out to a non-technical (perhaps uninformed) user for Microsoft though. Yes, malware creators can ruin something for the rest of us.

Microsoft has been proceeding with hard sell tactics with Windows 10. Some have no problem with pushy salesmen approaching them and separating the sales experience from the product. There is some logic to this as the salesman doesn't design or support the product. Some have difficulty separating the product from the presentation. The logic to this is the company usually has say in sales in marketing. Credit card pushers on college campuses come to mind in speaking bad and pushy sales. I have been turned off products or companies based on how they were presented to me. I've thought if this is how they present their product and how they behave, I don't want to deal with them, regardless of how great their product is. I've also turned around and purchased the product on my own terms elsewhere and have not let the interaction affect me whatsoever.

Then there is the psychology of being coerced or forced into something. I could see being a less technical consumer and finding Windows 10 on my computer without intending to get it, not know how to roll it back, and having the way it was delivered to me cause a bad taste in my mouth. A person is more open to an experience or more likely to enjoy it if it was their decision than if they felt forced or coerced. I think Microsoft genuinely think they are benefiting their customer. From a technical and security perspective, Windows 10 is better than Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 before it (like Vista was with XP, XP was with 2000, etc).

Then there is the fact that there is no alternative to Windows for what Windows does. If you have to use AutoDesk AutoCAD, for example, you have to use Windows.

It's interesting that some areas of Microsoft seem more open and more open to choice than ever in history. Microsoft Azure and Visual Studio are good examples. Windows doesn't seem to be behaving that way in my reading of things. There seems to be a "Windows Way" or a "One Microsoft Way" in Windows 10.