Win7 retail to Win 10 retail or OEM?

Kongar

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Conflicting information both here and elsewhere online. I can't figure out what's fact or fud.

I have a retail, store bought copy of win 7 pro. If I take advantage of the free win 10 upgrade offer, do I get a retail copy of win 10 or effectively an OEM copy of 10 tied to the hardware hash of this computer? I personally don't think trading a retail 7 license (one that can be moved around and reused) is a fair trade for an OEM 10 license (even a free one). I'd rather just buy a new retail 10 license...

Additionally, "they" say that after a month, my 7 key is invalidated. What does this mean? Will it no longer activate via any means? I mean, there's "it won't activate at all" and there's "it'll work but you're not supposed to" Anyone know which way it is?
 

Araxie

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upgrading from a retail copy of win 7 you receive a retail key, however the key its effectively tied to your machine, but in the other hand i've tried swapping a HDD from a working machine with win10 to another and isn't having issues so far..
 

Ryokurin

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Retail is not tied to the machine, it's tied to your Microsoft account. And no, something simple as changing a hard drive won't trigger a deactivation. Product activation has been around for over a decade. why does no one know how it works now?
 

Kongar

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Retail is not tied to the machine, it's tied to your Microsoft account. And no, something simple as changing a hard drive won't trigger a deactivation. Product activation has been around for over a decade. why does no one know how it works now?
So my Microsoft account will show / have a retail win 10 key associated with it? Can anyone else confirm that key is transferable just like my other retail keys? ANyone tried this on day 3? ;P

Thanks
 

svet-am

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Retail is not tied to the machine, it's tied to your Microsoft account. And no, something simple as changing a hard drive won't trigger a deactivation. Product activation has been around for over a decade. why does no one know how it works now?
Not true in practice. I did the upgrade on one of my machines from a legit Windows 7 retail license and windows 10 showed as "Activated." I then, did a clean install on the same hardware and it still came up as activated. I never logged into a Microsoft account on this machine so there's no MSA for it to tie to.
 

svet-am

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Not true in practice. I did the upgrade on one of my machines from a legit Windows 7 retail license and windows 10 showed as "Activated." I then, did a clean install on the same hardware and it still came up as activated. I never logged into a Microsoft account on this machine so there's no MSA for it to tie to.
Oh, and like others I don't have a key. If I true to use the key that Magical JellyBean or other tools show, it comes up as "invalid." the hardware hash is being generated and sent to Microsoft for activation automatically and without user intervention (eg, no "key")
 

Kongar

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Oh, and like others I don't have a key. If I true to use the key that Magical JellyBean or other tools show, it comes up as "invalid." the hardware hash is being generated and sent to Microsoft for activation automatically and without user intervention (eg, no "key")
See this is my fear. Sources say you get a "retail" key - but in practice it appears to be no different than an OEM key. It would be awesome to get positive confirmation. I suppose on the invalidating old win 7 keys, we'll just have to wait 30 days to see what happens...
 

Araxie

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See this is my fear. Sources say you get a "retail" key - but in practice it appears to be no different than an OEM key. It would be awesome to get positive confirmation. I suppose on the invalidating old win 7 keys, we'll just have to wait 30 days to see what happens...
the invalidating just mean, that after 30 days you can't return to your old windows 7 installation after a direct upgrade to windows 10. if you use the upgrade to windows 10 option without perform a clean install you have a option to return to windows 7 (or 8) anytime in a period of 30 days. after those 30 days the windows 10 installation will become permanent and you won't be able to return to the old windows. so its supposed in that time the win 7 key will just expire.
 

svet-am

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See this is my fear. Sources say you get a "retail" key - but in practice it appears to be no different than an OEM key. It would be awesome to get positive confirmation. I suppose on the invalidating old win 7 keys, we'll just have to wait 30 days to see what happens...
I just tried on one of these machines and the Windows 7 key *does* still work and activate.
 

LurkerLito

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I just tried on one of these machines and the Windows 7 key *does* still work and activate.
But did you uninstall/downgrade back to 7 before you did it and if not I am sure you haven't had win 10 installed from the upgrade for 30 days yet. I am guessing they won't revoke your old win 7/8 keys for a while even after the 30 days, but they will eventually it's just a matter of time.

Since I am interested in dual booting I have no choice but to buy Win 10 retail at some point. What I want to know is if you do the "upgrade" now then downgrade back, are you still eligible to "upgrade" back to win 10 or will you no longer qualify because you did do the upgrade already but downgraded?
 

svet-am

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But did you uninstall/downgrade back to 7 before you did it and if not I am sure you haven't had win 10 installed from the upgrade for 30 days yet. I am guessing they won't revoke your old win 7/8 keys for a while even after the 30 days, but they will eventually it's just a matter of time.

Since I am interested in dual booting I have no choice but to buy Win 10 retail at some point. What I want to know is if you do the "upgrade" now then downgrade back, are you still eligible to "upgrade" back to win 10 or will you no longer qualify because you did do the upgrade already but downgraded?
that's fair. No, I just nuked the drive and re-installed Windows 7.
 

bigdogchris

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So my Microsoft account will show / have a retail win 10 key associated with it? Can anyone else confirm that key is transferable just like my other retail keys? ANyone tried this on day 3? ;P

Thanks
1) I'm not totally sure if you log in with an MSA if it ties a key to it. However, many users, including myself, have gone through the upgrade and clean reinstall process without once typing in an MSA to even tie it to.
2) In a traditional upgrade if you upgrade an OEM license the upgrade is tied to that OEM license. Windows 10 upgrade is not transferable so it's irrelevant whether it's considered a OEM or Retail upgrade.
3) Since the license is not transferable, there is no "key" to transfer either since the free upgrade process does not give you a key to begin with. Yes, there is a key in the system after you upgrade but it's a completely generic key that everyone else has.
 
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evilsofa

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From the Windows 10 EULA, section 4. b.:

"Stand-alone software. If you acquired the software as stand-alone software (and also if you upgraded from software you acquired as stand-alone software), you may transfer the software to another device that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software to a device owned by someone else if (i) you are the first licensed user of the software and (ii) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Every time you transfer the software to a new device, you must remove the software from the prior device. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between devices."

Right there, plain English, simple concepts.

If you need non-English or non-US versions of the Win 10 EULA, start here.
 

B00nie

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From the Windows 10 EULA, section 4. b.:

"Stand-alone software. If you acquired the software as stand-alone software (and also if you upgraded from software you acquired as stand-alone software), you may transfer the software to another device that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software to a device owned by someone else if (i) you are the first licensed user of the software and (ii) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Every time you transfer the software to a new device, you must remove the software from the prior device. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between devices."

Right there, plain English, simple concepts.

If you need non-English or non-US versions of the Win 10 EULA, start here.
This is what I've been trying to say for a long time. Since Win8 rules have changed, you can now legally transfer even OEM licenses from a machine to another as long as you use only 1 copy in one machine at a time.
 

bigdogchris

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From the Windows 10 EULA, section 4. b.:

"Stand-alone software. If you acquired the software as stand-alone software (and also if you upgraded from software you acquired as stand-alone software), you may transfer the software to another device that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software to a device owned by someone else if (i) you are the first licensed user of the software and (ii) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Every time you transfer the software to a new device, you must remove the software from the prior device. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between devices."

Right there, plain English, simple concepts.

If you need non-English or non-US versions of the Win 10 EULA, start here.
For retail, sure.

This is what I've been trying to say for a long time. Since Win8 rules have changed, you can now legally transfer even OEM licenses from a machine to another as long as you use only 1 copy in one machine at a time.
Maybe for Retail but that does not apply to OEM licensing. I'm not sure where you are reading that you can transfer OEM licensing. It clearly states you cannot.

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/licensing_faq.aspx#faq3

the OEM software is licensed with the computer system on which it was originally installed and is tied to that original machine. OEM licenses are single-use licenses that cannot be installed on more than one computer system, even if the original machine is no longer in use.
 
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B00nie

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For retail, sure.

Maybe for Retail but that does not apply to OEM licensing. I'm not sure where you are reading that you can transfer OEM licensing. It clearly states you cannot.

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/licensing_faq.aspx#faq3
And yet Microsoft answers network states the complete opposite:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_install/transferring-a-windows-8-pro-oem-license/f78ed043-a620-4387-83d3-ff460766faa7?auth=1 said:
Andre Da Costa
MVP Community Moderator Wiki Author MCC: Content Creator MCC: Content Curator Conversationalist Most Recommended Discussion Wiki Master

Yes, the Windows 8 OEM System Builder license comes with transfer rights, so you can move it to a new motherboard and reactivate by telephone:

http://personaluselicense.windows.com/en-US/default.aspx,
"Can I transfer the software to another computer or user? You may transfer the software to another computer that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software (together with the license) to a computer owned by someone else if a) you are the first licensed user of the software and b) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. To make that transfer, you must transfer the original media, the certificate of authenticity, the product key and the proof of purchase directly to that other person, without retaining any copies of the software. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Anytime you transfer the software to a new computer, you must remove the software from the prior computer. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between computers. You may transfer Get Genuine Windows software, Pro Pack or Media Center Pack software only together with the licensed computer."
 

svet-am

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What you need to remember is that the Microsoft answers post IS NOT an official source. That guy is just a power users who is respected the in the community. He is not a Microsoft employee like Gabe Aul.
 

B00nie

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What you need to remember is that the Microsoft answers post IS NOT an official source. That guy is just a power users who is respected the in the community. He is not a Microsoft employee like Gabe Aul.
Uh and the link to the OEM personal users EULA that verifies what he says?
 

bigdogchris

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And yet Microsoft answers network states the complete opposite:
That's a system builder license which are the "OEM" disc you buy from online vendors, plus it says Windows 8 not 7. It is not OEM Dell, HP, etc. I suppose we need more detail from the OP as to what type of OEM license he's referring too.
 

Ryokurin

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Not true in practice. I did the upgrade on one of my machines from a legit Windows 7 retail license and windows 10 showed as "Activated." I then, did a clean install on the same hardware and it still came up as activated. I never logged into a Microsoft account on this machine so there's no MSA for it to tie to.
You let the installer format the drive right? It saw that the previous install was legit and it carried over. It's the same concept as how upgrade copies work so your experience isn't anything new.
 

rezerekted

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Windows 10 upgrade is not transferable so it's irrelevant whether it's considered a OEM or Retail upgrade.
Here we go again. I read that if you are upgrading from a retail Win7/8.1 then the upgrade also becomes retail with transfer rights. This better get clarified ASAP.
 

bigdogchris

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Here we go again. I read that if you are upgrading from a retail Win7/8.1 then the upgrade also becomes retail with transfer rights. This better get clarified ASAP.
I've read websites saying that the upgrade would be transferable alongside the Retail version and I've read that it will not be. Unfortunately it's not in any official FAQ.

I think part of the confusion is when people say "Windows 10 Retail" are they talking Retail that you bought or Retail that was inherited rights from the qualifying base operating system. Retail 10, that you bought at a store, absolutely is transferable. I'm still not completely sure on the upgrade version, though.

I think about it like this, Microsoft would basically be giving away a free OS forever if they allowed you to transfer your Windows 10 upgrade to new builds.
 

rezerekted

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Well, if it is not transferable then it is better to keep my Win8.1 which is transferable. Someone needs to try and transfer their Win10 upgrade to a different mb and see what happens.
 

Dk975

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The way I see it, if you have a retail 7/8.1 key, then you can move that around within the first year and request/force an upgrade to 10, therefore Win10 acts as retail. After the first year, you can still move your 7/8.1 license around (one system at a time of course), but you won't be able to upgrade to 10 for free. You will have to buy a retail/OEM copy at that point.
 

carnageX

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The way I see it, if you have a retail 7/8.1 key, then you can move that around within the first year and request/force an upgrade to 10, therefore Win10 acts as retail. After the first year, you can still move your 7/8.1 license around (one system at a time of course), but you won't be able to upgrade to 10 for free. You will have to buy a retail/OEM copy at that point.
The way I understood it was since the upgrade inherits the license rights of the version you're upgrading, and will retain those rights after the 1 year period.

E.g. You have a retail Windows 7/8.1 key. You do the free upgrade to Windows 10. That Win10 upgrade becomes a retail-licensed version of Win10. Then you can transfer it any time to another system (1 system installed at a time), even after the 1 year period ends.

This is the only thing holding me back from upgrading, honestly. I would have upgraded to Win10 already on my system if it wasn't for the uncertainty I've had with the licensing. I have a DreamSpark Win8 license (which from the research I've done counts as a Retail license), and waiting to find out for sure if I can transfer the Win10 upgrade to another system if I wanted. Though I do have a Retail Win10 key sitting in my DreamSpark account...so if I really wanted to, that'd be the easiest route to go and I wouldn't have to worry about any of these funky licensing issues.
 

Dk975

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I guess we will see when somebody attempts to transfer W10. Someone could even try before next year to do this.
 
D

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Windows 10 licenses go into effect "for the lifetime of the device" as per Microsoft's statements and also in the licensing terms and the FAQ. Previous licenses, whatever they happen to be, are converted to a Windows 10 license and don't necessarily provide the same level of support or transferability as the upgraded product's license did.
 

carnageX

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Windows 10 licenses go into effect "for the lifetime of the device" as per Microsoft's statements and also in the licensing terms and the FAQ. Previous licenses, whatever they happen to be, are converted to a Windows 10 license and don't necessarily provide the same level of support or transferability as the upgraded product's license did.
Everything I've read says they retain the original license's rights. I.e. OEM Win/8.1 ->OEM Win10 and Retail Win7/8.1 -> Retail Win10.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...-upgrade/ba3700d5-45ae-4b56-a622-726cde36d9bb

http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/windows-10-upgrade-and-installation-frequently-asked-questions

However these aren't necessarily official sources...so take them with a grain of salt. But that's pretty much the clarification on for what I'm waiting for.
 
D

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The reason I said "don't necessarily..." in my statement was because there are finer points that some licenses do cover and some don't, but you're right because the two main types are OEM or Retail and they don't necessarily (there I go again) share the same granted rights - the license types vary but the rights of the given license remain, if that babble makes any sense at all.

It'll work itself out over time, Microsoft will probably say one thing, post something else, then revise all of it constantly as the coming year progresses.
 

heatlesssun

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Transfer rights haven't changed:

4. Transfer. The provisions of this section do not apply if you acquired the software as a consumer in Germany or in any of the countries listed on this site (aka.ms/transfer), in which case any transfer of the software to a third party, and the right to use it, must comply with applicable law.

a. Software preinstalled on device. If you acquired the software preinstalled on a device (and also if you upgraded from software preinstalled on a device), you may transfer the license to use the software directly to another user, only with the licensed device. The transfer must include the software and, if provided with the device, an authentic Windows label including the product key. Before any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and use of the software.

b. Stand-alone software. If you acquired the software as stand-alone software (and also if you upgraded from software you acquired as stand-alone software), you may transfer the software to another device that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software to a device owned by someone else if (i) you are the first licensed user of the software and (ii) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Every time you transfer the software to a new device, you must remove the software from the prior device. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between devices.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm

OEM licenses and upgrades based on them except in Germany due to the law there ARE NOT transferable to another device. Retail licenses and upgrades based on them ARE transferable to another device but only one at a time.
 

rezerekted

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Someone in another thread tried to transfer his license to a different PC and he couldn't get it activated, even after phoning Microsoft, think he had to install Win7, activate it, then install Win10 upgrade again so it generated a new hardware hash. Tiberian says you don't have to do that and just ask for a new product key, but explain why he couldn't get it activated over the phone and had to install fresh.
 

heatlesssun

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Answer above. This needs to be in a Windows 10 sticky because it gets asked and answered all of the time and there's really nothing to this subject. It's as cut and dry as it gets when it comes to the intricacies of Windows licensing.
 
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Someone in another thread tried to transfer his license to a different PC and he couldn't get it activated, even after phoning Microsoft, think he had to install Win7, activate it, then install Win10 upgrade again so it generated a new hardware hash. Tiberian says you don't have to do that and just ask for a new product key, but explain why he couldn't get it activated over the phone and had to install fresh.
That's not precisely what I said in previous posts (which are all over the place this point), all I've said is that if worse comes to worse then calling Microsoft should resolve any issues with licensing or activation. Because Windows 10 is only a few days old, the response you will more than likely get with respect to activation/licensing issues is re-install the qualifying product then perform an upgrade. After August 29th things may change because by then Windows 10 will have been out for at least the first 30 days - that's when we'll really find out how these situations will be handled.
 

carnageX

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Transfer rights haven't changed:



http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm

OEM licenses and upgrades based on them except in Germany due to the law there ARE NOT transferable to another device. Retail licenses and upgrades based on them ARE transferable to another device but only one at a time.
Thanks - that at least gives me some confirmation.

Now the question would be...how would you transfer the upgrade?

Would you have to reinstall the base OS (win7/win8) on the new hardware, do the upgrade to Win10, and then see if it activates? I'm guessing that'd be the only way if you were to transfer it to completely different hardware since it wouldn't necessarily have a hardware hash to really reference if you were to just try and install Win10.
 
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