fightingfi
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win 10 really is free NO catches
- Thread starter fightingfi
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Master_shake_
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i don't care what zdnet says.
i'm never putting away my tinfoil hat.
nothing is ever free.
if anything we're the product being sold.
i'm never putting away my tinfoil hat.
nothing is ever free.
if anything we're the product being sold.
How else can the government afford to pay space taxes to our secret alien overlords?
Nenu
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How is it free?
You have to give up your old OS or pay.
And if you upgrade your PC after it is installed, you may need to buy it again because the upgrade is tied to the device it is installed on.
Best hold off getting it until you have at least upgraded your main system to something you will keep for years.
As it says in the MS blurb, its expensive if you buy it.
You have to give up your old OS or pay.
And if you upgrade your PC after it is installed, you may need to buy it again because the upgrade is tied to the device it is installed on.
Best hold off getting it until you have at least upgraded your main system to something you will keep for years.
As it says in the MS blurb, its expensive if you buy it.
hasn't this been the case with the last few OS's?...I never had trouble reactivating after a complete reformat or changing out parts such as a video card...
Yep. And if you're thinking of buying a Skylake Z170 board, best to wait on Windows10 until after you get the new motherboard, or you'll have the privilege of paying $199 for a new Pro license when you realize your Windows 7/8 license that you upgraded to 10 was permanently tied to the old motherboard.
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That's kind of misrepresenting the Bott article. What he's saying is that there's nothing unexpected in the final license and the terms are simplified and clear.
In effect it does mean that many home users running legitimate copies of Windows 7 or 8.1 can get a free upgrade if they want it.
In effect it does mean that many home users running legitimate copies of Windows 7 or 8.1 can get a free upgrade if they want it.
Nenu
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A video card no problem, but thats not what this is about.
There are no new OS's now so MS doesnt get revenue from people buying the next new OS.
They need to make money some other way and that appears to be when people upgrade/replace their hardware (ie motherboard or a new machine).
You may not find it so easy to get new hardware activated on an old Win 10 install.
MS went to great lengths making sure we know the upgrade is tied to the device for the life of the device.
Then later they said the expected life of Windows 10 is 2 to 4 years because thats how long the device will last before it is changed.
rezerekted
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It says in that EULA that if you have a *retail* copy it can be transferred to another PC.
Only if you bought a retail copy of Windows 10 (ie $199 for Win10 Professional). However if you upgrade a Windows 7 or 8 Professional key to Windows 10, it becomes essentially an OEM copy of Windows 10 and cannot be transferred to another motherboard, nor do you get a Win10 activation key after upgrading since activation is married to the motherboard and tied to the MSA account.
If someone has an official source that says otherwise, spill it, but this is my understanding based on everything I've read, and Gabe Aul has dodged this question when pressed on twitter which all but confirms it.
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OEM cannot 'legally' be transferred but I've done it dozens of times as I frequently reformat my systems...with Windows 7, Vista, XP...as long as you don't have 2 systems active at the same time...the worst that'll happen is you're forced to call some MS number in India and they'll ask you how many copies of Windows you have it running on...say 1 and they'll give you a new activation code
unless something has drastically changed with Windows 10 it's going to be the same thing...I'm not going to 'upgrade' to Windows 10 because 1) I hate upgrades and only use clean installs 2) I'm not taking any chances that my Windows 7 key will be invalidated if I do this 'upgrade'
unless something has drastically changed with Windows 10 it's going to be the same thing...I'm not going to 'upgrade' to Windows 10 because 1) I hate upgrades and only use clean installs 2) I'm not taking any chances that my Windows 7 key will be invalidated if I do this 'upgrade'
That you could call a phone# to reactivate previous Windows doesn't mean anything. They're doing the upgrade free so there's an expectation they will be less lenient based on how incessantly they have harped on the phrase "for the life of the DEVICE" whenever discussing Windows 10 terms, but we won't know definitively until after launch when people have challenged it and succeeded or failed.
And yes the new way activation is handled in Windows 10 is a pretty drastic change. When you upgraded previous versions of Windows, you got a new product key, the DRM (or lack of) was the product key and could be exploited in various ways (toll free#, black KMS servers) to get around various restrictions. When you upgrade to 10, you do not get a new product key, and the activation rights management is handled by MS in the cloud.
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ManofGod
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It really is free with no catches. DPI, please stop spreading your opinion as fact, all it does is confuse people that want to know what is really happening. My retail copies of Windows 8.1 are being upgraded to Windows 10 Pro. (Actually, they already have been.) When I upgrade both my home and work computers sometime in early 2017, my Windows 10 retail keys will be coming with me.
My Windows 8.1 retail keys will be converted to a retail Windows 10 Pro key. OEM computers could never have it's installation of Windows transferred to a new computer legally. That is why you do not get a key stamped on the outside of a Windows 8 OEM computer anymore. Also, when the final release of Windows 10 occurs, I will be getting a product key for it. (I log in with my MSA anyways so it will be tied to that as well.)
Edit: Oh, and no, you will not have to buy a new copy of Windows 10 after 2 to 4 years on the same computer. (Another thing you keep spouting as fact although it is just your incorrect opinion.)
My Windows 8.1 retail keys will be converted to a retail Windows 10 Pro key. OEM computers could never have it's installation of Windows transferred to a new computer legally. That is why you do not get a key stamped on the outside of a Windows 8 OEM computer anymore. Also, when the final release of Windows 10 occurs, I will be getting a product key for it. (I log in with my MSA anyways so it will be tied to that as well.)
Edit: Oh, and no, you will not have to buy a new copy of Windows 10 after 2 to 4 years on the same computer. (Another thing you keep spouting as fact although it is just your incorrect opinion.)
On Facebook and LinkedIn you are right. We aren't the users. We are the product.
I'm paying attention to all the info, but I think that the only safe bet is to wait for the dust to settle a bit. I'll decide what to do in a few months. I'm cynical, so I expect the worst.
Ya pretty much what I'll do also except I'll wait 364 days. Minimum. Or until pigs start flying mach 3 and HL3 is DX12 only.
In fairness, until it's released and someone has to challenge it what you're saying is just as much opinion and guessing as DPI. The closes I have seen to anything official on this is Andre de Costa's Microsoft wiki post:
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...ndows-10/5c0b9368-a9e8-4238-b1e4-45f4b7ed2fb9
He *does* agree with what ManOfGod is saying *but* he's not an official Microsoft employee with first-hand knowledge. He's just a community moderator on their wiki. I've not seen anything official on this specific topic from anyone like Gabe so far and the content I've seen on the MSDN-restricted portal contradicts some of what Andre's post outlines.
Nowhere did I state anything was a fact - I said to the best of my knowledge based on everything I've read, and then invited any links to any official sources that contradicted what I stated as my understanding of it.
Nowhere have I seen that doing the free upgrade from Windows 7 or 8 Professional to Windows 10 will also give you a Windows 10 product key. Is that what you're claiming? If so, got a source for that? That would be news to me, since if you do a clean install on the same motherboard after the upgrade, it's apparently keyless. I'm also still looking for an official confirmation from MS on whether or not upgrading from Windows 7 Pro to Windows 10 will allow the license to be moved to a different motherboard later on, or if the free upgrade removes transfer rights. Forgive me if I don't just take your word for it.
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It's pretty obvious that you're not getting a key. Here's another link to a post by Andre da Costa (take it for what it's worth): http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...duct-key/0be532bc-99b5-4089-8c7d-5fb03192ae7f
That makes it pretty obvious (to me) that the upgrade process is going to be storing the key in your MSA; thus, also requiring an MSA. The seems logical since a large part of making Windows 10 free is to get MANY users on the same platform and to lock them into the same app store/ecosystem for the sake of developers and the ever-important micro-transaction economy.
Here's my experience:
My product key wouldn't activate on my main computer.
Windows technical support told me to reinstall from Windows 8 then to 10.
I did it in a VM and then pulled the product key from my VM install to use on my PC.
It wouldn't activate. I called tech support again and they told me that the product key is tied to the original install and there was nothing they could do about it.
So now I have two Windows 10 keys for my laptop and none for my PC.
I also asked if upgrading a component might lead into the same problem and she assured me it would. So even if I had managed to get it activated I would have been boned next week when I replace my MB via RMA.
(FYI, I was given Windows 10 keys after I upgraded to the Tech Preview that are distinct from my 8.1 keys).
My product key wouldn't activate on my main computer.
Windows technical support told me to reinstall from Windows 8 then to 10.
I did it in a VM and then pulled the product key from my VM install to use on my PC.
It wouldn't activate. I called tech support again and they told me that the product key is tied to the original install and there was nothing they could do about it.
So now I have two Windows 10 keys for my laptop and none for my PC.
I also asked if upgrading a component might lead into the same problem and she assured me it would. So even if I had managed to get it activated I would have been boned next week when I replace my MB via RMA.
(FYI, I was given Windows 10 keys after I upgraded to the Tech Preview that are distinct from my 8.1 keys).
rezerekted
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Someone posted a Microsoft FAQ in this forum somewhere and it stated that if your Win7 or Win8.1 that you are upgrading from was retail then Win10 upgrade becomes retail too.
https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/3898/a-few-more-answers-about-windows-10-upgrades
And that a key part of this process is that it will save a product key tied to the previously upgraded PC or device in Windows Store.
Going by that url and what is says about being tied to the hardware there is no way you can just transfer to a new PC. That zdnet article never answered this aspect.
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That would be great if transfer rights are maintained for non-OEM 7/8 keys. It's just a bit weird how some people get their manboobs in a twist when questioning Microsoft's poor communication here, but but it shouldn't require having to scour and decipher statements on twitter, support forums or interview statements from random execs to get clarity on this.
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Nenu
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There are no keys.
ManofGod
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and without keys, that means that you need an MSA for it to work properly -- especially on enthusiast hardware. why isn't there more outcry about that?
Because who gives a shit? I have to have an account for everything else I do anymore. Apple does the same thing. It's how it's going to be from now and if you don't like it, tough shit.
notarat
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I, for one, welcome our secret space overlords. They're bound to do a better job than we're seeing from "local" management
Unstableone
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If it ends up really being free, not sure if I like how. I've seen all the ways microsoft wants to collect data from you. Maybe it was from the preview builds, maybe not.
If it is "free" then why not get a cracked version that lets you bypass all of the activation garbage?
I hope something similar to "xpantispy" gets updated and there's a workaround for forced updates.
If it is "free" then why not get a cracked version that lets you bypass all of the activation garbage?
I hope something similar to "xpantispy" gets updated and there's a workaround for forced updates.
I don't agree with Apple either but at least on a desktop Mac the apple login is not required for the device to function properly. Further, Apple does not have the declaration of their snooping into your personal usage baked right into the terms of service the way Microsoft does.
ManofGod
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The way I read that, Microsoft tells you what they might be doing, Apple just does it without telling you at all.
Nenu
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So, what are you buying from Newegg then?
This is the kind of crap I was talking about that you commented on here, post 21
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1041734463#post1041734463
What you get from newegg is
called
a
license
You cannot enter a key on Windows 10.
Microsoft handle the key allocation remotely.
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The way I read that, Microsoft tells you what they might be doing, Apple just does it without telling you at all.
No, it means that if Apple were to ever snoop I have a legal leg to stand on in suing them. With Microsoft, you don't.
Domingo
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Apple and Google both require accounts to do much of anything. I don't think this is all that different.
True for Google on both mobile and desktop (eg, ChromeOS) platforms. Not true for Apple on the desktop; only on mobile.
Yes, you can do that but for people using the free upgrade then it's useless because you'll end up without activation since your key is stored in your MSA.
rezerekted
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Microsoft should hire you for PR. :/