Win 10 Cloud Leaks

[FrgMstr]

Rumors abound that Win 10 Cloud build 15025 leaks seems to have no 32-bit app support that only runs Windows Store apps. Neowin compares it to Windows RT. I am not sure I would be jumping to conclusions just yet, considering it might be way far from release.

 

[Hallucinator]

An operating system on cloud?

I'll pass.

 

[DukenukemX]

The name is deceiving. It's just a version of Windows 10 that only loads applications from the store. Which means it still has to download the apps. Which means no Win32 applications work. As for the Cloud, Wendell said it best. The Cloud is just other peoples computers.

 

[sadsteve]

If this is true, it sounds like a loser for the desktop, maybe viable for a tablet or phone. I know this is something I won't be using.

 

[raz-0]

If this is true, it sounds like a loser for the desktop, maybe viable for a tablet or phone. I know this is something I won't be using.

My guess is that it is for tablet, phone, and possibly cheap computers where they have reduced the cost to the OEM to $0 for the OS license.

 

[dgz]

I want open devices, not android or windows, or ios devices. It's a shame things didn't go that way

 

[Jagger100]

Windows RT was a real winner. Let's do that again. Stop turning my Desktop into an iPhone-like ecosystem. Make a more rounded eco-system where by PC compliments my phone whether is an Android, Apple, or Windows Phone.

 

[michalrz]

Hehe, potential plot twist: you can join a domain with it

 

[carnageX]

Hehe, potential plot twist: you can join a domain with it

Yeah I guarantee it's mainly geared towards Enterprise use. You can setup an Enterprise store, so hook Win10 Cloud up to your Enterprise store. For average office workers this would be plenty; could even throw a VDI client out there and it could basically just be a thin client.

 

[michalrz]

Yeah I guarantee it's mainly geared towards Enterprise use. You can setup an Enterprise store, so hook Win10 Cloud up to your Enterprise store. For average office workers this would be plenty; could even throw a VDI client out there and it could basically just be a thin client.

I was joking, but you got my attention! If I setup an Enterprise store, I'm able to place some in-house applications on it for the clouded clients for them to pull and install them? Would group policy work?

 

[Ur_Mom]

The name is deceiving. It's just a version of Windows 10 that only loads applications from the store. Which means it still has to download the apps. Which means no Win32 applications work. As for the Cloud, Wendell said it best. The Cloud is just other peoples computers.

Who is Wendell? And "The cloud is just other people's computers" is just common knowledge among IT folks, no attribution is required. It came to be from network diagrams where "The Cloud" was not known. It was someone else's network and infrastructure. It just became a buzzword when x as a Service became big.

I want a low cost tablet. The appeal of a Windows tablet is that it can run Win32 apps. RT/Windows Apps isn't enough. I like the Windows RT Surface models, but they are like my iPad. Very limited. But - very good on battery life. I still use my iPad and was looking into an older Surface 2 RT model. e-reader, email, web, etc.. Nothing really productive. The biggest downside is it's only Windows 8.1. I want Windows 10. I do wonder if this new Cloud OS would be able to run on those old devices, or if they'd release a newer one. If it were cheap enough, I'd go for it. $500 is too much, though. <$250 for a Surface RT with Windows 10? Yea, I'll go for it.

 

[carnageX]

I was joking, but you got my attention! If I setup an Enterprise store, I'm able to place some in-house applications on it for the clouded clients for them to pull and install them? Would group policy work?

I'm not much on the infrastructure side these days (I'm a developer now), but was talking with one of my buddies on our infrastructure side, and talking about basically doing this for our VDI clients some day.

The applications have to be UWP apps to go into the Enterprise store though, IIRC. But if they're in-house, then would have to just find the time/money to re-tool them into UWP apps.

And yeah, I believe you can manage all of it via Group Policy (though don't quote me on that).

 

[michalrz]

I'm not much on the infrastructure side these days (I'm a developer now), but was talking with one of my buddies on our infrastructure side, and talking about basically doing this for our VDI clients some day.

The applications have to be UWP apps to go into the Enterprise store though, IIRC. But if they're in-house, then would have to just find the time/money to re-tool them into UWP apps.

And yeah, I believe you can manage all of it via Group Policy (though don't quote me on that).

Did a quick Google check and you can apparently convert desktop applications to UWP by yourself.

I think I get it now. I wonder what possible limitations could break this - like the amount of stores and domains you can hook up to.

If this is true, it sounds like a loser for the desktop, maybe viable for a tablet or phone. I know this is something I won't be using.

While skimming the howto about converting your software to that format, there was this tidbit:

The resulting applications are intended for Windows 10 PCs. They won’t work on Windows 10 Mobile smartphones, Xbox One, HoloLens, Surface Hub, and the other Windows 10 platforms that run UWP apps. However, if you’re a developer, Microsoft offers a path to getting your desktop application into a cross-platform UWP application: “If you choose to move all of your app’s functionality out of the full-trust partition of the app and into the app container partition, then your app will be able to run on any Windows 10 device.”

 

[Uncle]

An operating system on cloud?

I'll pass.

and if you have no choice, because MS will not put out anymore hardcopies of a full windows into the market place. Remember how long it took MS to convince people that Office 365 is good for them. When MS first threw that idea out, the population said "No Way".People are slowly being weaned off of full hardcopies of office. Look at Adobe and their CC, cloud only, if I read it right. The new generation just doesn't care about privacy. The thought of privacy is being weaned out of them. How many times have you heard the youngins say"Well if your not doing anything crooked, who cares what the government or police do." Enjoy paying a yearly or in some cases monthly license fees.

 

[whateverer]

You know, the last time a Cloud leaked on me, we called it rain

 

[Frobozz]

and if you have no choice, because MS will not put out anymore hardcopies of a full windows into the market place. Remember how long it took MS to convince people that Office 365 is good for them. When MS first threw that idea out, the population said "No Way".People are slowly being weaned off of full hardcopies of office. Look at Adobe and their CC, cloud only, if I read it right. The new generation just doesn't care about privacy. The thought of privacy is being weaned out of them. How many times have you heard the youngins say"Well if your not doing anything crooked, who cares what the government or police do."

I think, in this particular idea, the deficiency in the consumer is less privacy concern and more in our growing willingness to accept debt & reoccurring payments.

 

[DPI]

Just what everyone's been clamoring for - another Windows that doesn't run Windows software.

 

[DPI]

Did a quick Google check and you can apparently convert desktop applications to UWP by yourself.

If you place notepad.exe in a zip file, call it "UWP" and then Microsoft password protects it and never gives you that password, you've done the equivalent of "converting" to UWP. However notepad.exe even in a zipfile still won't run on anything but Windows x86 - not this silly rebranded Windows RT called Windows Cloud, not OSX, Linux, Android etc - notepad.exe may unzip, but it won't run.

There's nothing magical about "converting" a desktop program to the UWP container - its a glorified password-protected zipfile where desktop programs are concerned. All you're really doing is handing over control, distribution and a 30% cut of a commercial program to Microsoft. Why bother? What's the benefit?

 

[heatlesssun]

There's nothing magical about "converting" a desktop program to the UWP container - its still a desktop program that won't run on anything but x86. All you've succeeded in doing is handing over control, distribution and a 30% cut of a commercial program to Microsoft. Why bother? What's the benefit?

Anyone can distribute universal Windows apps for x86 just like a Win32 app. Now for this cloud version, that might be different.

 

[sadsteve]

and if you have no choice, because MS will not put out anymore hardcopies of a full windows into the market place. Remember how long it took MS to convince people that Office 365 is good for them. When MS first threw that idea out, the population said "No Way".People are slowly being weaned off of full hardcopies of office. Look at Adobe and their CC, cloud only, if I read it right. The new generation just doesn't care about privacy. The thought of privacy is being weaned out of them. How many times have you heard the youngins say"Well if your not doing anything crooked, who cares what the government or police do." Enjoy paying a yearly or in some cases monthly license fees.

Yeah, that's why I've been migrating to Linux. I'm currently dual booting both my main desktop and my laptop with Mint Linux, Windows only gets boot for games now. I just hope more and more game producers start making Linux versions. Currently only about a third of my Steam games are available on Linux.

 

[DPI]

Anyone can distribute universal Windows apps for x86 just like a Win32 app. Now for this cloud version, that might be different.

Distribution really wasn't the point, but the fact that x86 programs zipped into a UWP container still won't run on anything but x86 hardware - no code conversion has taken place, despite the "Project Centennial" magical marketing naming. Windows Cloud won't run notepad.exe repackaged as UWP.

Windows Cloud = Windows RT Second Edition. I don't see anything that's changed or improved in this reincarnation. Windows RT only ran WinRT8 apps, and Windows Cloud will only run WinRT10(UWP) and WinRT8 apps.

 

[heatlesssun]

Windows Cloud won't run notepad.exe repackaged as UWP.

On x86 that's exactly what it would do. And there's the potential of ARM x86 emulation. In any case, I'd say it's fairly certain that whatever won't be exactly what Windows RT was and there's probably going to be some way to get Win32 apps on it, even it's through UWA packaging.

 

[darkpaw]

The whole point of this is to compete with Chromebooks for educational/enterprise markets. Completely locked down for security and as little administration as possible. This isn't supposed to replace a desktop OS.

 

[lilbabycat]

I will gladly embrace the cloud when the US's internet infrastructure guarantees <1ms latency in every major city and suburb... so maybe on my death bed?

 

[Lakados]

The whole point of this is to compete with Chromebooks for educational/enterprise markets. Completely locked down for security and as little administration as possible. This isn't supposed to replace a desktop OS.

If this OS allows me to join it to a domain so it can use AD authentication it will give me the ability to phase out all my Chromebooks as long as I can install the Chrome browser on it as there are too many education apps that are only available on chrome and replacing them all would be a rigorous pain that I could not get enough of the staff to support.

 

[Snowdog]

Did a quick Google check and you can apparently convert desktop applications to UWP by yourself.

It has already been tested and will Not work on Windows Cloud.

Windows Cloud only runs real UWP apps, not Win32 applications in a Windows Store wrapper.

 

[Ryokurin]

The name is deceiving. It's just a version of Windows 10 that only loads applications from the store. Which means it still has to download the apps. Which means no Win32 applications work. As for the Cloud, Wendell said it best. The Cloud is just other peoples computers.

It has already been tested and will Not work on Windows Cloud.

Yeah, because right now it's very broken. Some apps don't run and others throw the error and run anyways. The feature isn't complete.

Windows Cloud only runs real UWP apps, not Win32 applications in a Windows Store wrapper.

By default, it won't. If you go into apps and features, you can allow apps from anywhere.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/windows-10-cloud-allows-external-app-installs/

Everyone should just settle down until the version is actually out, or at least in a release candidate.

 

[Snowdog]

Yeah, because right now it's very broken. Some apps don't run and others throw the error and run anyways. The feature isn't complete.

By default, it won't. If you go into apps and features, you can allow apps from anywhere.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/windows-10-cloud-allows-external-app-installs/

No you can't. If you actually read the link. This is what it says:
"In this specific build, the option to install apps from outside the Windows Store wouldn’t “stick,” meaning no matter how many times we selected this option, Windows 10 Cloud kept us locked to the Windows Store."

Given the name of the Product, and various blockages in the way, there is a very obvious intent here. This is intended to be a locked down UWP machine.

Such a machine would actually make a lot of sense if there was a robust UWP application ecosystem.

The real issue with building such a machine in the immediate future, is that weak UWP application ecosystem.

Though with or without a rich UWP ecosystem, this wouldn't be a machine any of us here would be interested in. This is more for corporate/education and granny usage.

 

[heatlesssun]

No you can't. If you actually read the link. This is what it says:
"In this specific build, the option to install apps from outside the Windows Store wouldn’t “stick,” meaning no matter how many times we selected this option, Windows 10 Cloud kept us locked to the Windows Store."

Given the name of the Product, and various blockages in the way, there is a very obvious intent here. This is intended to be a locked down UWP machine.

Such a machine would actually make a lot of sense if there was a robust UWP application ecosystem.

The real issue with building such a machine in the immediate future, is that weak UWP application ecosystem.

Though with or without a rich UWP ecosystem, this wouldn't be a machine any of us here would be interested in. This is more for corporate/education and granny usage.

This is a leaked build of an unannounced product.

 

[DPI]

No you can't. If you actually read the link. This is what it says:
"In this specific build, the option to install apps from outside the Windows Store wouldn’t “stick,” meaning no matter how many times we selected this option, Windows 10 Cloud kept us locked to the Windows Store."

Given the name of the Product, and various blockages in the way, there is a very obvious intent here. This is intended to be a locked down UWP machine.

Such a machine would actually make a lot of sense if there was a robust UWP application ecosystem.

The real issue with building such a machine in the immediate future, is that weak UWP application ecosystem.

Precisely. The weak link in all these attempts by Microsoft to find some easy shortcut to catching up to the mobile revolution that's left them behind, is the fact they haven't invested enough into the apps.

If WinRT10/UWP is so great, why is MS so incapable or uninterested in showing everyone how its done with killer, must-have apps that showcase the framework and platform? Where are the WinRT10 based enterprise management apps? They are a MINIMUM. But they haven't bothered.

Calling it Windows is also a blunder. More confusion, more people will write off yet another "tiled era" product. Microsoft is doubling down on everything people don't like, or outright ignore about Windows 10.

 

[Ryokurin]

No you can't. If you actually read the link. This is what it says:
"In this specific build, the option to install apps from outside the Windows Store wouldn’t “stick,” meaning no matter how many times we selected this option, Windows 10 Cloud kept us locked to the Windows Store."

Given the name of the Product, and various blockages in the way, there is a very obvious intent here. This is intended to be a locked down UWP machine.

Such a machine would actually make a lot of sense if there was a robust UWP application ecosystem.

The real issue with building such a machine in the immediate future, is that weak UWP application ecosystem.

Though with or without a rich UWP ecosystem, this wouldn't be a machine any of us here would be interested in. This is more for corporate/education and granny usage.

No, if you actually read the link you would have saw right under what you quoted where it said it was likely temporary. Why have the option there if you don't intend on having it working?

The only things we know for certain is that there will be x86 and ARM versions, you at least will be able to upgrade the x86 version to Pro if you desire, and you'll likely be able to install normal apps via the option in the control panel once it's finished. We have no idea who it's for, or it's intent. I'd rather hear what they have to say instead of getting all tinfoil hat about off of speculation and FUD.

 

[Snowdog]

No, if you actually read the link you would have saw right under what you quoted where it said it was likely temporary. Why have the option there if you don't intend on having it working?

What I stated is fact. It doesn't work.

Beyond that is speculation.

You speculate that they will change it to allow installation from anywhere, and I speculate it will remain locked down.

If your speculation was the correct, what purpose does such a version serve? If you can install anything, it is essentially identical to the normal version.

We have no idea who it's for, or it's intent. I'd rather hear what they have to say instead of getting all tinfoil hat about off of speculation and FUD.

If you only want the official word, why are you in this thread reading this? Why are you offering your own speculation? It sounds more like you one want speculation as long as it reinforces your viewpoint.

It exists and we are free to speculate. No tinfoil Hats or FUD involved. Like I said this is a reasonable idea for a product. Only the lack of a rich UWP ecosystem makes it questionable.

Bottom line for a lot of computers: It's the ecosystem stupid.

I used to own an Amiga, and went to the PC in 1993, despite liking Windows/PC's less, because of the ecosystem. The ecosystem rules.
A Strong UWP ecosystem make a locked down machine a good choice for some people/organizations.

Microsofts biggest challenge remains growing the UWP ecosystem. How many of Microsoft's own applications are real UWP apps?

 

[heatlesssun]

Bottom line for a lot of computers: It's the ecosystem stupid.

I used to own an Amiga, and went to the PC in 1993, despite liking Windows/PC's less, because of the ecosystem. The ecosystem rules.
A Strong UWP ecosystem make a locked down machine a good choice for some people/organizations.

Microsofts biggest challenge remains growing the UWP ecosystem. How many of Microsoft's own applications are real UWP apps?

I totally agree. If this because an available product, which I would guess will be the case, it's clearly meant as a free, lightweight version of Windows to run on cheap hardware that out of the box is resistant to Win32 malware. Of course Win32 is the lifeblood of Windows and I'm sure that Microsoft gets that total like of Win32 support was the heart of the failure of Windows RT. I'm guessing there'd have to be a way to install Win32 apps on an x86 device running this, by signing, a UAW wrapper, something. And I don't think this is aimed at consumers, I doubt this would be sold on retail devices, at least not x86 one.

 

[Snowdog]

I totally agree. If this because an available product, which I would guess will be the case, it's clearly meant as a free, lightweight version of Windows to run on cheap hardware that out of the box is resistant to Win32 malware. Of course Win32 is the lifeblood of Windows and I'm sure that Microsoft gets that total like of Win32 support was the heart of the failure of Windows RT. I'm guessing there'd have to be a way to install Win32 apps on an x86 device running this, by signing, a UAW wrapper, something. And I don't think this is aimed at consumers, I doubt this would be sold on retail devices, at least not x86 one.

There was a question in my post, that you probably can answer better than me.

How much of Microsoft Applications have been converted to true UWP? Is there True UWP Office? Visual Studio?

How does it look if Microsoft is pushing developers to go UWP when Microsoft itself hasn't gone UWP?

 

[heatlesssun]

There was a question in my post, that you probably can answer better than me.

How much of Microsoft Applications have been converted to true UWP? Is there True UWP Office? Visual Studio?

How does it look if Microsoft is pushing developers to go UWP when Microsoft itself hasn't gone UWP?

There actually is a true UWA version of Office, yes much lighter weight that the desktop version, but as many people say about Office, they hardly begin to use all of those features. Win32 has simply been around a very long time and it's not going anywhere anytime soon. But it's not ideal for apps beyond traditional desktops as that's what it's pretty much always been for. One can argue that UWAs have no place on the desktop, but as long as they can run on traditional x86 devices and tablets and 2 in 1s along with Win32, I don't see a problem there. That those kinds of apps can run together on one device isn't really a problem, but I get people feeling that Microsoft is forcing those apps over Win32 apps that they like better.

However anyone things is should work, something that's more controllable out of the box and resistant Win32 malware has a place if there is a way to whitelist Win32 apps and join domains.