Will TSX matter in the future?

M

Mad Lion

Weaksauce
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
119
I'm going to upgrade my motherboard, cpu, and ram for Christmas. I've already got the motherboard (ASRock Z87 Extreme 4) and ram (G Skill Ares 1866 cas 9 8 GB kit). When Christmas comes, and I have some gift money, I will be ordering a Haswell I7.

Right now, the 4770k is 319.99 and the 4771 is 299.99. I can save 20 bucks and also get TSX and virtualization if I get the 4771, but the K has the ability to overclock.

I'll be honest, I'm not too excited about overclocking haswell. It seems that it runs hot, and it's hard to get it stable any higher than 4.2 or 4.3 in most systems. I know it's not very [H], but I'm strongly considering going with the 4771. It's got the same stock clocks as the K, and it seems like TSX is supposed to improve multi-threaded performance in applications that use the instruction set.

I tend to keep systems for a while (I'm upgrading from a Q6600 @ 3 ghz). In 3-5 years, will TSX instructions matter?
 
Ultima99 said:
You could always delid to help with temps.
Click to expand...

You can probably clock Haswell fine if you delid, so it's more like 4771 or 4770k with no warranty. BTW it will run hott under stress test even at stock speeds. The delid was pretty easy for me, much easier than I expected, as in like only a couple minutes of my time. Spent longer cleaning the CPU, like 10 minutes. But it's understandable if you don't want to take the hammer to the CPU too.

If your going to run it stock and have no intentions playing with overclocking 4771 would be better, but the 4770k can probably get some overclock even at stock voltage.
 
I've got a Hyper 212+ with dual coolermaster fans that I'll be re-using on this chip (it's done a bang-up job with my Q6600). I've got an NZXT gamma case, but I got a mod that puts a 120mm intake in the top 3 5.25" slots blowing directly at the CPU fan, plus the regular 120mm intake at the bottom, and another 120mm intake on the side by the video card. Exhaust is a 120mm intake behind the CPU and another 120mm above the CPU. I think this ought to be enough to get 4.2 out of the chip, but it seems that playing with voltage on haswell is a dangerous game. I've seen people on forums say that they had a stable overclock for a few months that became unstable after a few months. I don't want to damage my chip, as I will likely keep this CPU until at least Skylake comes around. TSX probably won't matter much, and by the time it shows up in chips, skylake will probably already be out, I suppose. I guess it's going to depend on the price of the 4771 and the 4770k when I have the money. I have seen a 4770k for 294.99 on ebay.

To be clear, even with the 4771 I should be able to enable multi-core enhancement to get 3.9 turbo on all cores, correct?
 
Mad Lion said:
I've got a Hyper 212+ with dual coolermaster fans that I'll be re-using on this chip (it's done a bang-up job with my Q6600). I've got an NZXT gamma case, but I got a mod that puts a 120mm intake in the top 3 5.25" slots blowing directly at the CPU fan, plus the regular 120mm intake at the bottom, and another 120mm intake on the side by the video card. Exhaust is a 120mm intake behind the CPU and another 120mm above the CPU. I think this ought to be enough to get 4.2 out of the chip, but it seems that playing with voltage on haswell is a dangerous game. I've seen people on forums say that they had a stable overclock for a few months that became unstable after a few months. I don't want to damage my chip, as I will likely keep this CPU until at least Skylake comes around. TSX probably won't matter much, and by the time it shows up in chips, skylake will probably already be out, I suppose. I guess it's going to depend on the price of the 4771 and the 4770k when I have the money. I have seen a 4770k for 294.99 on ebay.

To be clear, even with the 4771 I should be able to enable multi-core enhancement to get 3.9 turbo on all cores, correct?
Click to expand...

I think playing with the multiplier is going to be the easiest way to go for overclocking rather than screwing with BCLK, so I'm not exactly sure what multicore enhancement does but if the multiplier is locked it must be screwing with BCLK.
 
Yes, TSX will help more MT software, eventually. The install base needs to first grow large enough to make it worthwhile for enabling it. Some software may use it earlier, but having 2 paths to test isn't really worth it if few customers have CPUs which support TSX.
 
There shouldn't be a any issue with running my ram at 1866 on a z87 chipset, even with a locked 4771, correct?
 
Can non K cpus up the bus speed but keep the pci-e speeds locked? That might help.

Thing is, do you need TSX and VT? If not, get the K, OC it and have fun. Or go with VT and the non-k.
 
I ended up going with the 4771. It's the K clocks at default, and I just don't see much gain with overclocking this chip..,

I've got TSX and VT=-D going forward,.., if that matters
 
Even if you have non OC variant i think you can at least get all 4 cores to run at maximum turbo speed with z87 mobo.
 
iostream said:
Another thing against the 4700K are problems with premature chip degradation. It seems like the chip is much more fragile than previous generations and overvolting the chip even modestly seems to cause performance losses in mere months (see this thread, for example: http://www.overclock.net/t/1409797/the-haswell-death-degradation-thread).
Click to expand...
With all the goofy stuff "enthusiast motherboards" do, it wouldn't surprise me if unintentional over-voltage was an issue. The absolute maximum voltage, and that doesn't mean it will be long-lived at that level, is 1.55v according to an Intel engineer's comments discussed in another thread earlier this year. That the CPUs die at the edge of overclocking and over-voltage isn't surprising at all. That the safe voltage is lower at smaller process nodes isn't surprising either. If you want to give CPUs a ton of voltage, AMD is still stuck on 32nm for its big cores, at least until 28nm Steamroller is finally released. :p
 
Skakruk said:
How?

http://www.pcper.com/news/Processor...ll-Processors-and-Strips-Virtualization-and-T

"no Turbo Boost clockspeed overclocking"
Click to expand...

That some pre release rumors

i5%204570%20@%203736%204%20cores.png


Max turbo can be enformed on all cores.
 
pxc said:
With all the goofy stuff "enthusiast motherboards" do, it wouldn't surprise me if unintentional over-voltage was an issue. The absolute maximum voltage, and that doesn't mean it will be long-lived at that level, is 1.55v according to an Intel engineer's comments discussed in another thread earlier this year. That the CPUs die at the edge of overclocking and over-voltage isn't surprising at all. That the safe voltage is lower at smaller process nodes isn't surprising either. If you want to give CPUs a ton of voltage, AMD is still stuck on 32nm for its big cores, at least until 28nm Steamroller is finally released. :p
Click to expand...
Well, people have reported seeing problems as low as 1.3v, so it's a little worse than you're making it out to be, I think.
 
iostream said:
Well, people have reported seeing problems as low as 1.3v, so it's a little worse than you're making it out to be, I think.
Click to expand...
They must be mistaken , or are less than honest then. The link you posted mentions "1.5V+" and clicking through a few early and laast pages, it's striking how few people claim to have killed their Haswell CPU in a thread about Haswell CPUs dying. :p

I'm not saying that people aren't experiencing death by electromigration, but there's little evidence Haswell processors are dying left and right (that 5 month old thread would have tons if it were a widespread problem). Overclockers kill processors. What's new.

If it's not clear: overclocking and taking the CPU to the edge of (or over) maximum voltage is going to drastically shorten any CPU's life. Significantly.
 
Heh, the enthusiast in me won in the end. I cancelled the 4771 and went with a same-priced 4770k from a seller on ebay. I just didn't feel right paying 300 dollars for a locked chip. Realistically, Vt-d and TSX probably won't matter to me, and if I can squeeze 4.2 out of it at stock voltages, I'll be happy. I've only got a hyper 212+ with dual fans anyway, right now. I don't actually plan on overclocking it right away, anyway, but I felt that for the same money, I'd rather have that option than the intangible benefit of Vt-d and TSX (for what I will likely do with this machine).
 
EXCELLENT chip. I decided to try my ASRock motherboard's 4.2 ghz preset overclock out, and it set the cores to 4.2 and the cache to 3.9, with the voltage at 1.2 and 1.15 respectively, but fixed (override mode). I went back and enabled adaptive voltage, and it passed AIDA64 for 30 minutes with no errors and has been gaming solid for days, so I'm just going to see if this is long term stable under my normal usage. I'm not big into stressing the hell out CPUs, I think sometimes overclockers fuck up their chips by pushing them too hard trying to be 100% stable under all conditions. It's not going to be, most of the time, is my opinion. It's overclocking, it's out of spec, if it's stable for your normal use for months, then it's stable period, IMO.

Also, it's a Costa Rica, can't remember the batch number, though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top