Will this rad cool below ambient?

[IYIENACE]

OK first - I am definitely not MSPaint 1337.... I can sketch it, but scanners down.

Before I commit to buying all this new WC hardware, I have been brain-storming trying to not necessarily be "better" but just different.
I really like the bong coolers but not crazy about the humidity or venting to outdoors.
The rad setup is a pretty cut n dry route, but just doesn't seem that effective at dumping heat - at least not by the test I've read.
The blocks seem to make the biggest difference.

So anyway - I've been thinking about this "bong" or swamp cooler type of rig but then thought about just combining them for (hopefully) the best of both worlds?

I want the rad because it is sealed. I don't have to worry about running out of water and having zero liquid cooling my hardware.
I can add additives like dye or water wetter etc. w/o worrying about odor or evaporation.

If I use water to basically deliver cool air blown across/through it and water dripped onto it to further carry away heat,
it may be less efficient than simply using openly cooled water but - wouldn't it seriously drop temps in the radiator?

To think about it another way, having had a car overheat before I can safely say that just "driving faster" ie; adding airflow probably wouldn't help too much
- popping the radiator cap and adding cold water to replace/displace the hot works...but would take a while (comparatively)
But - spray water across the radiator and watch that temp drop! Unless you blew a head gasket or something....but that's another story

Anyway, I'm about to order my blocks and a pump, can I get some advice from those who have been-there-done-that or hell any suggestions on material or hardware,
rocket scientist or hydrodynamic professors feel free to chime in!

Here's my crude sketch:

disclaimer: If something I said was inaccurate or just stupid then I reserve the right to retract it.

 

[kronchev]

if air can get in and out of the system, so will moisture. the condensing plate probabily wont work as well as youd think.

 

[IYIENACE]

You are right of course, let me rephrase. It's not to eliminate the humidity completely, but to greatly reduce it by having the heat transfer into the copper heater core.
Wouldn't that result in a lot more heat transfer to "air" than to the water itself (the water running across the radiator or filters)?

 

[kronchev]

Originally posted by IYIENACE
You are right of course, let me rephrase. It's not to eliminate the humidity completely, but to greatly reduce it by having the heat transfer into the copper heater core.
Wouldn't that result in a lot more heat transfer to "air" than to the water itself (the water running across the radiator or filters)?

what itll do is

**This is what a bong does**
1) water will get warm from CPU
2) water will evaporate due to heat, taking the energy with it that necessatates the phase change
3) vapor will float up in the air
**After this is what your setup adds**
4) vapor will hit the cold placte, the energy will be transferred to the plate, and the water will liquify
5) some water will not hit the plate and leave anyway

it just seems like a lot of effort, space, energy, etc, just to make it so you have to fill it every other day instead of every day.


to answer your question yes it will cool below ambient if the block and flowrate are good and if you evaporate enough water off at a constant rate to get rid of heat. but it wont be a closed system and you will lose water as vapor. its probabily more efficient cost-wise, energy-wise, time-wise, space-wise, etc, to just get a normal WC system and a peltier

 

[zer0signal667]

Spraying water onto a car's radiator wouldn't really do all that much, because both the fluids in the system are water. This helps in turbo/supercharged setups, to cool the air flowing through an intercooler- air has a much lower specific heat than water so a small increase in the sprayed water's temp will result in a large decrease in the air's temp.

So here's the problem with your idea. The water that may collect on your copper plate has heat energy, so when it collects and drips back down it's going to keep that heat energy. So you're missing out on the whole evaporative effect that enables sub-ambient temps. Assuming this collector worked perfectly, you would not get sub-ambient temps, and you'd probably end up with pretty crappy heat transfer too. However, the collector won't be that efficient since the plate won't be much different in temp than the air/water vapor. So you'll end up losing alot of water still and maybe have slightly below ambient water.

 

[IYIENACE]

Originally posted by kronchev
what itll do is

**This is what a bong does**
1) water will get warm from CPU
2) water will evaporate due to heat, taking the energy with it that necessatates the phase change
3) vapor will float up in the air
**After this is what your setup adds**
4) vapor will hit the cold placte, the energy will be transferred to the plate, and the water will liquify
5) some water will not hit the plate and leave anyway

it just seems like a lot of effort, space, energy, etc, just to make it so you have to fill it every other day instead of every day.


to answer your question yes it will cool below ambient if the block and flowrate are good and if you evaporate enough water off at a constant rate to get rid of heat. but it wont be a closed system and you will lose water as vapor. its probabily more efficient cost-wise, energy-wise, time-wise, space-wise, etc, to just get a normal WC system and a peltier

I have to disagree with some of the things you point out,
1.) water will be warmed (I think) to a lesser degree because it will be warmed by radiator and not directly by waterblocks
2.)My theory is that it will require much less evaporation due to less heat
- the water flowing over the radiator will definitely cool the radiator combined with a flow of air - how much cooler, I don't know... -
3.)vapor will float up into the air
- unlike a typical radiator (I've seen a lot of radiators mounted in an environment (read; case) with hot air blown over them - This would blow cooler (ambient + water vapor) air over the radiator.
4.) The plate at the top isn't really a "cold plate" just mainly a cieling I guess you could say that is smaller than the overall outer dimensions of the case/pipe/whatever. All I really would hope for it to do is keep water from hitting the fan(s) and hopefully catch _some_ water by simply not allowing heavier droplets of water to be carried around the edge of the "plate" by the air flow.
5.) It will definitely not catch all the water. But hopefully it would cut down on the "water vapor" because of the radiator being cooler than water in a typical bong cooler. Or so I hope, anyway.

I have no idea how often it would need to be filled...that's the $64.00 question. Would depend on size of water res and evaporation/humidity....I don't know. I'm hoping not nearly as often simply because the water being evaporated isn't directly cooling anything really hot like a cpu.

I don't think a peltier can begin to match a cooler like this "efficient cost-wise, energy-wise." For cost it would mainly be my labor plus hardware store stuff. There would be an additional small pump and fan but I can't see that matching the same + the draw of a peltier etc.

For space I'm thinking 8-10" diameter and maybe 18" +/- high?

It would take time and effort for sure but thats what makes it more interesting to me. Everytime I order a load of ups boxes to dump in my computer, a week or 2 later I'm staring at it thinking....*what can I add....what if I changed.....*

Thanks for your input! It's got me thinking lol

 

[IYIENACE]

Spraying water onto a radiator definitely drops the temperature!
Combined with a radiators fan it will drop the temps very quickly. Try it! I have lol

 

[IYIENACE]

Originally posted by zer0signal667
So here's the problem with your idea. The water that may collect on your copper plate has heat energy, so when it collects and drips back down it's going to keep that heat energy. So you're missing out on the whole evaporative effect that enables sub-ambient temps.

You may have a point there, maybe using copper or aluminum for a pan would work against the cooling by holding heat instead of releasing it....but even with cool water flowing over it?

 

[zer0signal667]

Originally posted by IYIENACE
Spraying water onto a radiator definitely drops the temperature!
Combined with a radiators fan it will drop the temps very quickly. Try it! I have lol

How much water do you spray, and how much of a drop in temps? Do you spray it constantly, with the engine at full load?

Originally posted by IYIENACE
You may have a point there, maybe using copper or aluminum for a pan would work against the cooling by holding heat instead of releasing it....but even with cool water flowing over it?

Where are you getting cool water? And it's not the fact that the pan "holds" or "releases" heat in a certain matter, it's just that the water that collects on it is not going to magically get cooler.

 

[Lazn_Work]

Lovely green stuff will grow on the outside of your radiator.

==>Lazn

 

[kronchev]

Originally posted by IYIENACE
1.) water will be warmed (I think) to a lesser degree because it will be warmed by radiator and not directly by waterblocks

ok, and then youll have less heat removed from the system, thereby resulting in worse temps.

2.)My theory is that it will require much less evaporation due to less heat

less evaporation = less heat removed from system = higher temps

- the water flowing over the radiator will definitely cool the radiator combined with a flow of air - how much cooler, I don't know... -

not really, where are you cooling the water from? the only way to cool the water is, thats right, by either a pelt or evaporation.

3.)vapor will float up into the air
- unlike a typical radiator (I've seen a lot of radiators mounted in an environment (read; case) with hot air blown over them - This would blow cooler (ambient + water vapor) air over the radiator.

but youre not cooling the processor, youre adding a lot of extra steps which will result in less heat transfer. instead of block->water->rad->air youre going block->water->rad->water->air. every step is another instance for the dT to be worse.

4.) The plate at the top isn't really a "cold plate" just mainly a cieling I guess you could say that is smaller than the overall outer dimensions of the case/pipe/whatever. All I really would hope for it to do is keep water from hitting the fan(s) and hopefully catch _some_ water by simply not allowing heavier droplets of water to be carried around the edge of the "plate" by the air flow.
5.) It will definitely not catch all the water. But hopefully it would cut down on the "water vapor" because of the radiator being cooler than water in a typical bong cooler. Or so I hope, anyway.

youre not blowing water, its water VAPOR. its a GAS. a gas expands to its containerl, since itll be open, its an infinite container, so it will try to expand to the room outside the cooler. and thats a cold plate, its a cold suface whose job is to cool vapor. youll never ever catch all the vapor like that, not even a good deal of it.

I have no idea how often it would need to be filled...that's the $64.00 question. Would depend on size of water res and evaporation/humidity....I don't know. I'm hoping not nearly as often simply because the water being evaporated isn't directly cooling anything really hot like a cpu.

but..you just proved my point. youre not cooling the CPU, so its ineffective. its indirect cooling which NEVER works unless you have extreme temperatures, and you dont, youre talking room temp vs ~100 degree water. thats not enough to make indirect cooling work better than as directly as possible cooling the water in the tubes.

I don't think a peltier can begin to match a cooler like this "efficient cost-wise, energy-wise." For cost it would mainly be my labor plus hardware store stuff. There would be an additional small pump and fan but I can't see that matching the same + the draw of a peltier etc.

uh..well since your design includes a peltier, youre wrong. all a peltier setup is is a WC system with a peltier in between the CPU and the block. all it costs is the cost of the peltier, some dielectric grease, and some foam.

It would take time and effort for sure but thats what makes it more interesting to me. Everytime I order a load of ups boxes to dump in my computer, a week or 2 later I'm staring at it thinking....*what can I add....what if I changed.....*

but you just said that you dont want to spend the time and the energy to install a simple plate and grease up your processor, but youll go to all of this?
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