Will this forum kill PPU sales?

[dotK]

Argument against PPU #1: It's like paying $300 for nothing.
Rebuttal: It's new, and doesn't have it's killer app yet. However, there are many games, including all that are based on Unreal 3, that will be released in the near future and will use a PPU. Your PPU will not lose functionallity between now and then.

The PPU will be used for effects physics in UT2K7. How long do people have to wait for the killer app? What if the killer app turns out to be a Duke Nuke'm Forever and never materializes?

Argument against PPU #2: I can just buy it later when it has a game.
Rebuttal: When games are developed for it, everyone will want one, and demand will be higher. Prices will go up, not down.

It will just be like the PS2/360/etc. If there is a large demand all of a sudden then the only place you will be able to find one will be on ebay for a high price. Considering there are a few companies already making PPUs you can bet that even more would jump on the bandwagon if there was a surge in demand - which would cause PPU prices to come back down relatively quickly. Also, if prices spike to $500 and stay there people simply won't buy a PPU.

Argument against PPU #3: We've lived without physics acceleration and don't need it now.
Rebuttal: True, but then again, we can also "live" without realistic shaders, water reflections, greater than 800x600 resolution, AA, AF, and spectral lighting. These are all things brought to us by the GPU. They make a huge difference in the experience of the game, and the PPU will do the same thing.

A video card will make a much larger difference than a PPU ever will. Given the choice between the abilitly to knock around some boxes and desks but have no shading, ugly textures, and bland models OR have realistic graphics with shading, multiple light sources, etc. with limited interactivity, I think most people would choose the 2nd option.

Argument against PPU #4: Look what happened to the sound card...
Rebuttal #1: Sound cards still exist, they've just been integrated into the mobo, and external cards are still popular with gamers (and I can prove it too, by refering to the posts made be everyone requesting a PCI-E version of the PPU because they have an Xi-FI).
Rebuttal #2: The PPU is more like the GPU than the sound card. The sense of hearing is very easy to satisfy. We don't really care much if the sound comes from two speakers or eight, and we can hardly tell the difference between CD and DVD quality sound. Physics, however, are like sight, in which it is very easy for us to notice subtle differences from reallity. We wonder why things don't blow up when we shoot them. We notice that bullet holes aren't really holes. We don't see how a cardboard box can stop a sniper bullet.

I care about sound and use it very effectively in games. Sound will create significantly more immersion than a falling box ever will.

Argument against PPU #5: Havok/NVIDIA have much better ideas.
Rebuttal: Physics on a GPU can only produce more realistic eye candy, it can't actually affect gameplay. Physics on a quad-core CPU can affect gameplay, but it won't be nearly as powerful as a PPU (500 vs 5000 objects at least).

Made up numbers. Numbers and real world results are often two very different things.

Argument against PPu #6: I don't want to pay for something else.
You paid $500 for a GPU. You paid $300 for 2GB of memory. You paid $100 for a gaming keyboard and mouse. You may have even paid $200 for a sound card, $500 for a speaker system, $500 for a watercooling system, or $400 for a dual-core CPU. If you're willing to spend so much money on other components to improve your gaming experience, why not the PPU? If you didn't want to spend money to improve your experience, you might as well go with the cheapest Dell PC that has a graphics card - it would run most games if you turned the settings way down and ran at 800x600.

Most people haven't spent $500 for a video card and $300 for memory. Even a lot of people on here don't have high end stuff.

I think a PPU has some potential but it has some very real challenges to overcome. I think Ageia did a very poor job with the launch and it very well may cause them to go under. There's only one game out at the moment that supports the PPU and its results are not that impressive. Ageia's lineup of PPU supporting games being released in the near future may end up being a list of "effects only" games, considering the UT2K7 announcement. Also, the lack of multiplayer support for PPUs really hurts.

 

[HOCP4ME]

The PPU will be used for effects physics in UT2K7. How long do people have to wait for the killer app? What if the killer app turns out to be a Duke Nuke'm Forever and never materializes?

You seem to be contradicting your own argument there. First you say, "The PPU will be utillized in UT2K7." Next, you say, "What if the killer app never materiallizes?" Are you saying that UT2K7 will never materiallize? Or, are you saying that simply using effects physics in a game isn't enough? That would be incorrect, because the PPU doesn't have to and won't be utillized to it's full potential with the first games. I stand by my point that, if you buy it now and it isn't utillized fully right away, that doesn't mean it won't work when it is utillized fully a few years from now.

It will just be like the PS2/360/etc. If there is a large demand all of a sudden then the only place you will be able to find one will be on ebay for a high price. Considering there are a few companies already making PPUs you can bet that even more would jump on the bandwagon if there was a surge in demand - which would cause PPU prices to come back down relatively quickly. Also, if prices spike to $500 and stay there people simply won't buy a PPU.

True, more demand means more will want to manufacture it, which will quickly increase supply enough to cope with the surge of customers, causing prices to go back down. However, there will be a short price spike when the "killer app" that requires a PPU is released. Even though it won't last long, you'll have to wait a few months for prices to go down while everyone who bought a PPU before prices went up in the first place are enjoying their awesome new physics-accelerated game.
EDIT: Oh, and do you remember what happened with the 7800TX 512MB? Those who bought right away got it for $650, while those who waited for prices to come down ended up struggling to get one for $800, and many of them never got one and had to wait until January for the refresh.

A video card will make a much larger difference than a PPU ever will. Given the choice between the abilitly to knock around some boxes and desks but have no shading, ugly textures, and bland models OR have realistic graphics with shading, multiple light sources, etc. with limited interactivity, I think most people would choose the 2nd option.

The PPU is much more than just pushing boxes! Think realistic bullet trajectories, damage to players caused by flying shrapnel, reliabillity of cover determined by the type of bullet being fired and the material of the cover, and structural damage to buildings caused by heavy machine gun fire and/or grenades. Please, start thinking outside the box (no pun intended).

I care about sound and use it very effectively in games. Sound will create significantly more immersion than a falling box ever will.

Same as above. The PPU will make much more difference (or at least as much difference) in the realsim of a game as sound will.

Made up numbers. Numbers and real world results are often two very different things.

It's true those aren't exact numbers, but I remembered them from the many press releases about AGEIA's new technology when it was introduced six months ago. Although the numbers don't represent real world performance, it's common sense that dividing a building into 500 segments will result in less realistic damage than if it were divided into 5000 segments.

Most people haven't spent $500 for a video card and $300 for memory. Even a lot of people on here don't have high end stuff.

Okay, you're right on that one. Most people (including me) havn't spent that much money on components. The PPU does need a lower price tag to get anywhere. I understand that most people don't want to spend $300 on a PPU when they only spent $150 on their GPU. Hopefully BFG and ASUS will react to lack of sales be decreasing price.

 

[bob]

Seriously, everyone is treating the PPU like it's a big joke. It's a real product with real potential, so why are we making fun of it?

Im treating it like a joke till I see a few games that really take advantage of a PPU, then im going to pretend like I praised the PPU from day-one. Ive been daydreaming of what gaming would be like IF a physics processor was used to make the games actual gameplay physics real and smooth as butter... Oh man, If there was a game I was interested in that supported it, I wouldnt mind spending 150.

I see the PPU like these dammed PCI-E slots on my motherboard. Faster, smaller, better in many ways over PCI. But who really cares, when you cant use it?

 

[nhusby]

I am hearing alot of "think outside the box" and I dont think that is the answer. I think people need to think inside the box. A game that fully utilizes a PPU will be completely inside the box. The problem is that current game objects are not realistic. Every object in a 3d environment has 3 dimesions. To fully utilize a PPU every object will need to account for materials. If you have a wall, it is usually made up of either brick, or a combination of wood / insulation / drywall. so rather than thinking too far outside the box and just using a rectangle, the designer needs to think in the box, and build the wall out of raw materials (all of wich have their own specific or inherited properties) To me, it is rediculus that I cannot blow a hole through a wall and walk through the hole.

PPU's dont do anything new, they just allow game engines to skip the shortcuts and do physics right, because now the hardware is capable of it.