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Will rv670 smoke the 8800gtx???
- Thread starter bobrownik
- Start date
The GT is not as fast as the GTX, so I guess the GT sucks too? That is, in your opinion?
the 8800gt almost matches the performance of the gtx, overclocks well and is cheap, so no it doesn't suck,
however, the rv670 is a refresh of the r600 which was suposed to compete against the gtx, and failed miserably, so the refresh should at least be able to perform as well as the gtx
however, the rv670 is a refresh of the r600 which was suposed to compete against the gtx, and failed miserably, so the refresh should at least be able to perform as well as the gtx
krameriffic
2[H]4U
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Well of course they don't. The most recent trend in the quality of their hardware is all that you need to look at in order to understand why. When you sell crappy hardware and lose to your competition, people start to feel hostile towards and even betrayed by a company that they have a brand loyalty to.
Valid question as these two are clearly ment to face it off.
ps. How long did it take Nvidia to rise from the gutter and give real competition for 9700/9800pro back in the time. Using common sense is allowed, the silicon spins only so fast. Personally I´d be amazed if AMD can bring a really competetive mid range card from the ill fated R600 architechture.
Wasn't the 2900XT supposed to compete against the gts, *not* the gtx?
PhantomFelix
Weaksauce
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I saw the thread title and the poll options and immediately thought "dAMn DaWg hoW mAni shOTZ of NOS dEs it haFF?"
But honestly if those rumors were correct in that nvidia upped the previously 8700 to what is the 8800GT right now because they wanted it to compete with the RV670, it might just pack a punch.
But honestly if those rumors were correct in that nvidia upped the previously 8700 to what is the 8800GT right now because they wanted it to compete with the RV670, it might just pack a punch.
DarkLegacy
[H]ard|Gawd
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AMD-ATI is in pretty bad shape. They need a superb product right now but I have this gut feeling that Nvidia is playing the waiting game. The 8800 GT was quite the surprise but can be seen as a very good scare tactic. Like a good bluff in a poker game. Like saying " look at what we can do with a die shrink & some tweaks =P ". We all know they have something much bigger up there sleeves & is most likely waiting for AMD-ATI to pull the trigger first. So they can go ahead & dwarf it. Not assuming that is what will happen, that is what I think may happen.
Voting will actually change how this product performs. Determining how GPUs perform is as follows (in this order):
-Irrelevant polls on a hardware site answered with pure speculation.
-How high each number is when describing the card.
-The actual products' specs.
-Irrelevant polls on a hardware site answered with pure speculation.
-How high each number is when describing the card.
-The actual products' specs.
The GTS is slower than the GTX, too.........hmm......
Anyway, the "RV"670 was always aimed to be a value priced product (regardless of how it compares to the new GT), and was never aimed to compete with the GTX's performance.
However, I like the "flame-baitness" of the poll!
My next poll: Will integrated graphics smoke the 8800GTX?
Now that we've all established just how bad the OP's poll is, let's try to move the thread to somewhere more mature.What's really interesting is all how this whole situation came about. Neither ATi or nVidia expected the A11 silicon revision to come back bug free. When this happened ATi just moved up their release. Of course nVidia moved up their release of the G92 in response to this. In addition nVidia expected the RV670 to be about 75% of the R600's performance, and not a full R600 on 55nm, which is why they priced the 8800GT the way they did (of course they basically invalidated some of their existing lineup when they did).
Even though the R600 had a 512-bit bus it was never bandwidth starved, so a move to a 256 bit bus won't hurt the RV670. However when you add a higher core clock you have a great performer; one that runs cooler, quieter, and better than the R600, but not necessarily as fast as the 8800GT.
Personally I'm really looking forward to the R680. Not necessarily because it's rumored to be a dual-RV670 on a single PCB, but because it gives a glimpse into how ATi would be handling the multi-chip nature of the R700.
|CR|Constantine
Limp Gawd
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Just to add to Kamerific comments,
Part of loving this hobby is really getting behind groups of engineers and rooting for them. Brand loyalties in video cards is really no different than automobile enthusiasts. Our hobbies bring us massive amounts of joy and we feel compelled to give back our thanks by supporting those groups.
In my case I am a huge AMD, ATi fan that has been let down these past couple of years more times than I can remember. No different than a Yankees fan (which I am also one) we show the love and also the hate when our team screws up.
In my opinion the problem with AMD is simply Hector Ruiz and his leadership of the company. Instead of building AMD slowly by being the enthusiasts and server admins platform of choice he went dump all his cards on the table trying to compete with Intel and got squashed by it.
The one danger (besides sky rocketing costs) that AMD is facing right now is word on the street. When you become the laughing stock in this industry you might as well bolt the door and cement block the entrance. Word on the street is everything and all you need is a couple of years of bad rap, after bad rap, after bad rep before no one buys your crap anymore.
When it comes to the HD3870 it really is black and white. Here is possibily another product launch from AMD that still will not be able to beat Nvidia's top offering from last year. If that fact alone does not speak VOLUMES about how this company is run I don't know what will.
Everyone in this industry from the fans to the boardroom listen to guys like Brent, Anand and others because they have their finger on the pulse of this hobby. It is my sincerest hope that *IF the HD3870 is slower than last years GTX that Brent completely and utterly point out just how much of disappointment this is. I hope he lambasts AMD for acting like a Prius in high octane dragster world. That having a mid range cheap affordable card is nice but having a top end bleeding edge card is absolute. Because without it, performance stagnates. Like what we are seeing now.
Because when we talk about video cards, performance is first and foremost. Yes it's great that the card is so power efficient that it saves us from being Eco-Terrorists, and yea it's great that it's cheap enough that some kid in middle school can ask his Mommy to buy him one for X-Mas. But who are we kidding, there are many of us with careers that have expendable income that want a one card bleeding edge solution that costs no more than $500 bucs. We want that card every year and we want it almost double the performance of the last generation.
What really burns our gears is here is Crysis, a game that EVERYONE knew would bring EVERY pc down to it's knees, yet there is not one product out there that can beat last years top offering. That is simply UNACCEPTABLE and you can lay the blame squarely at Hector Ruiz's feet. Because how could anyone blame Nvidia for not releasing new cards when there is simply no competition to deal with.
The bottom line is this, the HD2900XT was supposed to beat the bloody GTX and it never did. After an additional WHOLE YEAR *if they still cannot beat it handily than the jury is out...AMD has not interest in the high end anymore.
The truth is AMD would rather build upper mid range cards that sell to the masses that are not so complex that will meet schedule times. They could give two shits about the high end and would rather cater to Bobby who saved his allowance than Max Alumini from Graduate school. In their model if you want high end you will have to go Crossfire which is not only a cop out but pure bullshit. They have had Crossfire for two + years and I still cringe from the horror stories.
This is the truth and whole truth, if the HD3870 does not beat last year's GTX solidly I will never ever go back to AMD again. My new mobo and processor will come from Intel and the original boys in green will once again supply my graphics card. When fans like me jump ship it's time to shoot the Captain in the balls.
Battleneter2
Gawd
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Nvidia fans badly need ATI
In the last year we have seen very weak competition from ATI, hence we are seeing one of the longest gaps between generations that we have seen in years, decent mainstream cards were very slow to appear.
Competition is what pushes things along, so i encourage even Nvidia fans to buy ATI if they come out with a better product at the price point they want to buy at.
Having said that ATI fully deserve all the criticism they have received over the last year, I prefer however to judge there performance product by product.
In the last year we have seen very weak competition from ATI, hence we are seeing one of the longest gaps between generations that we have seen in years, decent mainstream cards were very slow to appear.
Competition is what pushes things along, so i encourage even Nvidia fans to buy ATI if they come out with a better product at the price point they want to buy at.
Having said that ATI fully deserve all the criticism they have received over the last year, I prefer however to judge there performance product by product.
QFT．　the new card is still based on the same architecture as the R600, thus i dont expect it to do really well.
TomGreen321
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Maybe they're trying to address that issue? It really makes no sense to keep releasing shit on a pattern that doesn't compete. Who knows, we'll have to wait until reviews come out. Although even if the thing is more powerful then 1 million GTX's, I'm sure they'll have driver "issues" like they keep claiming.
leSLIe
Fisting is Too Mainstream for Me
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well, for the sake of the hardcore gaming community, i sincerely hope that the new Vid card from ATI would kick nVidia´s ass. And that´s is coming from a nVidia fangirl. But i think nVidia is getting too cocky and that is not good, we need competition!!!
DarkLegacy
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Ah I thought so as well when they released that joke with the 8800 Ultra & the price tag that came with it. They seem to be back down to reality with the release of the 8800 GT. The best move they did thusfar in the 8XXX series. We'll see what else happens down the road.
I've said this before, but I'll say it again. These cards are not meant to take the performance crown. They are supposed to reduce production costs, while creating a good value, in terms of price/performance ratio.
Remember that even though R600 didn't do very well, its price was its main downfall. If it was priced lower, it would be of far better value, but it was just too damn expensive to produce and thus the price couldn't go down, otherwise AMD's profits be even lower. This is exactly where these new cards come in. They are basically a HD 2900 XT, with a 256 bit memory interface, a couple more features, using a smaller fab process and costing $100-150 less.
Remember that even though R600 didn't do very well, its price was its main downfall. If it was priced lower, it would be of far better value, but it was just too damn expensive to produce and thus the price couldn't go down, otherwise AMD's profits be even lower. This is exactly where these new cards come in. They are basically a HD 2900 XT, with a 256 bit memory interface, a couple more features, using a smaller fab process and costing $100-150 less.
well.. at least someone understands what it's all about, unlike people with dumb comments like xxx is not supposed to compete against gtx
Zerikin Loukbel
Limp Gawd
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Seriously if ATI cannot come up with something to beat a year old video card this November(or at LEAST the new 8800GT) they are gonna be a joke. They are releasing after The new mid range nVidia card so they better have something good. I've stuck with nVidia cards myself since I had a driver issue with an ATI card back in the day, if ATI has something better to offer I would consider it though. Would be great to get some real competition back in the high end graphics market.
Mr. Bluntman
Supreme [H]ardness
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Intel would love to try and tell you so.
To the OP, just because something doesn't even up with or is faster than an 8800GTX does not mean it sucks. Yes, R600 was a big let-down. However, if the rumors are true, it will be faster than the 8800GTS 640 and slightly behind the 8800GT for $50 less. How the hell does that suck? You can't always have your cake and eat it too...
Mr. Bluntman
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Double post.
well no one knows how it will perform, but my guess is the same as everyone else's, I believe it to be little faster than r600, since radeon 3870 has gddr4 running at 2.4ghz and memory bandwidth of about 75gb/s which should be enough, It probably will be what r600 should have been, I also believe it will probably have improved AA performance which was a nightmare on the 2900, some games didn't take any hit and in some games it came down to the performance of x1950.
with all that said, real competition is coming, I am an nvidia owner right now, and real competition of the single chip highend is coming probably second quarter next year and I can tell you this much we are gonna have two monster cards R700 and G90 or G100 whatever its gonna be called. I have a gut feeling that r700 will be right up there with the next nvidia highend because they have 55nm process and they can probably pack more transistors on that chip.
with all that said, real competition is coming, I am an nvidia owner right now, and real competition of the single chip highend is coming probably second quarter next year and I can tell you this much we are gonna have two monster cards R700 and G90 or G100 whatever its gonna be called. I have a gut feeling that r700 will be right up there with the next nvidia highend because they have 55nm process and they can probably pack more transistors on that chip.
I am an nvidia owner and I have been for the last year, but I look for the facts and I don't blindly love one company and hate the other. I will buy whats best for my money.
for people that cant see, here is the deal, ati is ahead in manufacturing process, 55nm, why did they do that because they are looking ahead in the process, and I believe they are perfecting the manufacturing process and waiting to slap on the r700 on this process. they can probably pack a lot on to r700 on this process, probably more than nvidia because the next nvidia highend is going to be based on 65nm process. so if Ati is smart they can really make a monster chip with r700, and I believe that they might end up having a faster single chip highend, not by a whole lot may be a little.
Please people dont bash me, I am not a fanboy of any company and its just what I think what could happen.
for people that cant see, here is the deal, ati is ahead in manufacturing process, 55nm, why did they do that because they are looking ahead in the process, and I believe they are perfecting the manufacturing process and waiting to slap on the r700 on this process. they can probably pack a lot on to r700 on this process, probably more than nvidia because the next nvidia highend is going to be based on 65nm process. so if Ati is smart they can really make a monster chip with r700, and I believe that they might end up having a faster single chip highend, not by a whole lot may be a little.
Please people dont bash me, I am not a fanboy of any company and its just what I think what could happen.
Indeed we are all reminded of the days when Intel was the only performance CPU around and when ATI's 9700 owned the world. Those days sucked. High prices, slow as molassus product cycles. Now they are here again.. nvidia sits on rather than releases technology or outrageously bloats its price and evidently so does Intel. Not that I blame them, from a purely capitalistic enterprise standpoint.. but the point is clear: when ATI loses real bad (or Nvidia, or Intel) we all lose.
As these very days I spec my next PC I lose the hope I had that I could go to both ATI and AMD (I run an Opteron 160 now) for next gen performance. All they offer is last gen, at best. I'm going to buy Nvidia and Intel.. but I'm rooting for AMD and ATI. Go Red! When they get their head back in the game I'll be glad to give them my [H]ard-earned money.
/sigh
As these very days I spec my next PC I lose the hope I had that I could go to both ATI and AMD (I run an Opteron 160 now) for next gen performance. All they offer is last gen, at best. I'm going to buy Nvidia and Intel.. but I'm rooting for AMD and ATI. Go Red! When they get their head back in the game I'll be glad to give them my [H]ard-earned money.
/sigh