Will a Antec 350S be sufficient for this system...

[Ford]

Building a new system with the following parts:
A64 3000+ (90nm)
Gigabyte 6800NU
MSI K8N NEO2
1 GB PC3200 Corsair value select
2 x Samsung 160GB Harddisks
Benq 1620 DVD RW (16x)

I will put these in an Antec 3700BQE case using either the included PSU,
Antec 350S (12V, 21A),
or my other older Antec PSU,
Antec 380 Truepower (12V, 18A).

Which of these should I use and will either of them handle my new system?
I'd prefer not buying another PSU since I already have two.

Thanks

 

[Ice Czar]

for starters the Antec 350S is 14A when adjusted for a normal operating temperature

your 6800 is 2.4A stock at full load
A64 is 7.4A
the drives 2A each at spinnup (1\4 afterwards)
mobo an additional 0.3A
a CPU fan likely 0.5
0.37 for additional 80mms

roughly your likely around 17A or so
so no you need a new supply

cut and paste ad nauseum (I have to go, but will be back this evening)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do the math here: http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/
There's a good chance you will need a bigger PSU than the 470..

And once again. Let's not forget that these calculators are absolute worst case.

well as far as calculators goes, that one sucks (sorry)
its very important to actually determine the amps per rail
and not all calculators are automatically the worse case senerio
I use > takaman's Power Supply Calaculator v2
which does have the option to set a utilization percentage, and to manually enter amp values for a given component
which is very handy if you have real world test values like
Power Consumption of Contemporary Graphics Accelerators: ATi
Power Consumption of Contemporary Graphics Accelerators: Nvidia
(all the better because they break out the draw between the AGP and the auxillary connector, which on an ATX12V v2.0 is on different +12V rails)
and various databases like Processor Electrical Specifications
(if the board has a +12V auxillary you add to the +12V otherwise it goes on the +5V rail,
and you convert the watts to amps for the appropriate rail, AMPS = Watts / Voltage)
or the actual spec sheets on the components (like say from Seagate)

that way Im able to run multiple calculations
first I do a "full" calculation, of all the additive maximums of the components
then for an ATX12V v2.0 supply or an EPS12V supply I repeat that for the +12V1, +12V2 and additionaly for EPS12V +12V3\+12V4 rails

then I run a "realworld" worse case senerio,
Its just as likely Im helping someone calculate a NAS as a lean gaming rig
so a "spinup" calculation is the first criteria
all the fans and HDDs\RAID arrays at 100% value and a 25% value for the CPU\GPU, often that will tell me if a more powerful supply is needed simply to boot or if the NAS\SAN need to employ a controller with a delayed spinup option
(common on SCSI controllers, and found on quite a few ATA)
once the fans and HDDs are spinning they will drop to 1\4 of their full rating, so I recalculate with that value as a static load, and throw in a 100% CPU\GPU and single optical (full spinup draw) for a worse case senerio realworld


Interpreting the veracity of a manufacturer is the tricky part
since we dont get to actually see the engineering test specs
which will typically say sometghing like
rated for full power at 25C decreasing linearly to no power at 70C
and your operating temperature being around 40C

generally I start with deducting a third off the rated amps for temperature
and then start to match to the baselines, factor in thermal considerations (PSU placement, type of thermal solution for the rig,) and special factors like overclocking or usage patterns (NAS\Server\Workstation\word processor ),

when I actually make recommendations however I typical build in a healthier safety value than the "real world" worse case senerio unless someone has specifically stated they are running a UPS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ffor ATX12V v2.0
+12V1 will be CPU, mobo, PCI Cards, fans attached to the mobo and the AGP slot the 24 pin main power connector and Aux +12V mobo connector

+12V2 will be all other connectors including the Aux to the Video Card, drives, fans, lights, pumps ect
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POWER SHMOWER by Mike Chin

or How PSU Power Ratings Mean Almost Nothing

A frustrating fact about PSUs is that there does not appear to be a stringent or regulated standard for reporting, advertising and labeling rated power. This is despite the existence of standards like ATX2.03 or Intel ATX12V.

There are well-established standards for measuring and rating HDD capacity, an engine's horsepower, or the heat generated by a furnace... but not one for how much power a PSU can deliver. There are so many cases of people with "450W" PSUs having power stability issues running a system that can't possoibly draw more than 150W. And "300W" units that keep running where the "450W" units are faltering.

It's not just about bad PSUs vs better ones. It's a dumb situation caused by uncontrolled marketing competition. Real regulation would bring PSUs out of snake oil territory and into a more sensible consumer-friendly terrain.

There are many ways PSU makers fudge to make their units seem more powerful.

1) Out and out lying. You add up the power on all the lines in many PSUs and they fall short of the rated power by 10, 20 30W or even more.

There are more sophisticated ways:

2) Limit the AC input voltage to a very narrow tolerance. The best PSUs are able to deliver their rated power given a decent range of AC input power, say 90~130V for a 120V unit. It's much more demanding to produce 300W w/90VAC input than with 120VAC, so what some PSU makers will detail in their tech specs (usually not in their consumer brochures) is to specify 115-120VAC for input power. A PSU specified this way will not deliver full power if the AC voltage sags, if there is a brown-out. Surely it causes instability more often than a PSU rated to deliver full power with 90-130VAC.

3) Specify a low operating temperature for rated output. This is quite common, but again not often seen in consumer brochures, but rather tech spec sheets provided usually only on demand by engineers or corp buyers. A typical PSU operating temp statement is somthing like this:

0ºC ~25ºC for full rating of load, decrease to zero Watts O/P at 70ºC

Examine what that says. Full power (let's say 400W) is available when the unit is at 0ºC ~25ºC. Hmmm. Think about this.

Have you ever felt air blown out of a PSU in a PC running absolutely full tilt (which it would have to do to get anywhere near 400W output) that felt cool to the fingers? 25ºC airflow would feel exactly that: Cool, given that normal body temperature is 37 °C.

So this PSU cannot deliver full rated power when its temperature goes over 25ºC. OK, what happens to the max power output capacity above that temp? It decreases gradually so that by the time the PSU temp reaches 70ºC, the PSU cannot deliver any power at all. So if you assume that this power drop as temp rises is linear, then max power capacity will drop by ~9W for every degree over 25ºC.

Now having examined as many PSUs as I have over the last 2~3 years, I have to say there's not a single PSU in ANY PC I have ever used or examined that would not measure at least 30~35ºC almost anywhere inside the PSU under almost any kind of load. And if/when it is pushed, 45ºC is nothing at all, especially for or near hot running components like voltage regulators.

So let's say 40ºC is a fairly typical temp inside a PSU. This 400W rated unit would actually be able to deliver a max of just 220W at that temp. Hmmm. Interesting, isn't it? At 50ºC, the available power would drop to just 130W. No wonder some PSUs have 3 fans each capable of 50 cfm!!

Here's a simple fact: Really high quality PSUs are actually rated for full power output at as high as 40ºC. The trick is get a hold of the spec sheets that tell such information so you can compare apples to apples. Or ask.

or

from dansdata

Unethical PSU Marketing 101.

Here's how to make overly optimistic power supply specifications. It's really simple.

First, power the thing up. You can make an ATX power supply that isn't connected to a motherboard turn on by grounding pin number 14 on the big motherboard power connector. It's easy to spot that pin, because it's the only one with a green wire going to it.

Use any handy bit of wire - like the paper clip in this picture - to connect pin 14 to any ground contact. The ground contacts are the ones with the black wires going to them. Presto, the PSU will turn on.

Now, break out your brick-sized power resistors and load the heck out of one of the output rails - the +5V rail, for instance. Measure the current as you increase the load, until the voltage sags unacceptably far below the rated voltage.

How do you tell what an unacceptable voltage sag is? Well, you could choose a nice conservative small permitted sag - say, 0.1 volts - so that your results are genuinely useful to your customers. Or you could just ignore the voltage and say that when a fuse (or some other component...) blows, that must have been the limit, right there.

OK. Now you've made a big fat amperage number for the +5V rail. If you blew up the PSU in the process, get another one, and repeat the process for +12V and +3.3V, and for the low current rails as well.

On no account, though, should you test more than one rail at a time. This is the key to the whole scam.

A big beefy PSU may be able to deliver 50 amps (say) on the 5V rail when nothing else is under load, and 25 amps (say) on the 12V rail when it's similarly all alone. But the 12V and 5V rails together may only be able to deliver, say, 350 watts between them, when they're both under load. Watts equals amps times volts.

In a real PC, all of the power rails will always be under load together.

But you're not testing what the PSU can really do - you're making pretty numbers for the sales brochure!

So test all of your rails alone, get an amperage figure for all of them, multiply that figure by the voltage of the rail it came from (the nominal voltage, not whatever the voltage had sagged to as the PSU pumped electrons through the dessert spoon you'd soldered to the circuit board), then take all of the resulting wattage figures and add 'em up. That's a wrap, folks. Ship it!

Power Supplies are all about the worse case senerio
too high a draw, too high a temperature, too unstable a source AC Power
and supplys that under normal circumstances are adequate, blowup and often kill stuff
(this can happen to even quality supplies, but they should shutdown safely withoput killing components)
so we are a pretty conservative lot in here, considering the power supply has the potential to fry components worth exponentially more that it is.

To make matters worse there are very very few reviewers able to review a supply, the best that can be said for most of them is that it didnt blow up their config that day, because the power from their outlet happend to be stable that day, the didnt overload it and it wasnt too hot.

exceptions are rare
http://www.leesspace.com/Published_reviews.htm
http://www.silentpcreview.com/section4.html

so get as good a UPS, Thermal Solution, and PSU that will actually power your connfig with room to spare as you can afford

 

[Ford]

Ice Czar: Thanks a lot man, that's it I'll order a new PSU right now.

 

[Ice Czar]

if you think youve got a handle on running the numbers have at it
but if not, or you want some feed back on potential supplies
consider posting your choices and or full specs, I'll rerun the numbers and critic the various supplies

there are a few long term considerations not covered above and "special issues" like overclocking or future upgrades you might want it to meet

 

[Ford]

I'll try some overclocking, but I don't want to overvolt anything.
Sound is really an issue for me, I want my computer to be very silent.

Should I go for an ATX 2.0 supply to be on the safe side, was thinking of bying a FSP400-60THN-Pi (400W, +12V(1) 14A, +12V(2) 15A, ATX2.0).

Thanks again.