Wide gamut and calibration

Discussion in 'Displays' started by stevecamp09, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. stevecamp09

    stevecamp09 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    172
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Because i'm pretty new to LCD's in general, I wanted to get some feedback on this topic. After a lot of research into LCD technology, I decided to get the Planar PX2611W. Further reading led me to understand that this monitor is "wide gamut". It would seem that in the 24"+ IPS panel world, there is only the 2490WUXi that is standard gamut and I could not bring myself (or rather the wife was ready with her hands around my neck) to spend the extra $$ to get that, and certainly not for that reason alone anyway. So to my question, is it possible to calibrate a wide gamut monitor to the point that the wide gamut is not an issue or does not really exist? or is this a pipe dream? I had started to look at various calibrators (Spyder3 in particular) that claim to work with wide gamut monitors. Anyone out there with any experiences/opinions to share on how this could work out? Would I be wasting my time/money to try to "fix" this issue?

    Thanks!
     
  2. goodCat

    goodCat [H]Lite

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    The calibration does NOT resolve the issues that come with wide gamut display outside color managed apps (like oversaturation). The calibration improves color accuracy on a monitor, regardless of its gamut.
    You may wanna wait until summer when LG will launch its 24" IPS (model W2420P) which will have a standard gamut and will retail for ~400 euro. However, this will only be available in Europe.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2009
  3. MaZa

    MaZa 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,719
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    No, calibration does not fix oversaturation on applications that are not color managed and use sRGB color space. (read: about every non-graphics artist application and game out there.) On applications like Adobe Photoshop, oversaturation isnt an issue. Vista image viewer is also color managed.
     
  4. stevecamp09

    stevecamp09 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    172
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Thanks...as an LP2475W owner, have you found this over-saturation to be an issue in general usage or gaming?
     
  5. solaris54

    solaris54 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,162
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    I have had a few wide gamut type monitors including the Planar 2611.
    Yes the color oversaturation was a problem for me. I tried the Spyder 2 and 3 but still had the oversaturation. What I found worked for me was switching from Nvidia based video card to the ATI video card. The reason is that the ATI Catalyst control panel has an excellent Saturation control adjustment which the Nvidia does not. You can actually adjust the color down as far as you want with the ATI control panel and the colors look great. Although Nvidia has a Saturation control even at zero it did not bring the colors down enough.
     
  6. MaZa

    MaZa 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,719
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Yes and no. Oversaturation is apparent in games as it makes colors stand out and makes subtle shades less apparent as it boosts up the strong colors, ending up in more cartoonish image, but it doesnt harm them and it even fits some games, particularly ones with bland colors on default like Doom 3. Fantasy games in the other hand are even more "fantastic" looking.


    Good example on how much wide gamut screws up the colors is setting one of Vista widescreen wallpapers, the one with sun lit mountain top, for background and opening the same picture in image viewer. In image viewer the sunlit top looks natural where in background wallpaper its like molten lava. (where all that red comes from?)

    Here is a screenshot of the difference. Not sure how it looks on other monitors but difference should be quite noticeable.


    *edit* Removed the link as I realised it woudnt be visible on other than widegamut monitors. I would have to take a photo with my camera to show the difference to people with sRGB monitors
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2009
  7. goodCat

    goodCat [H]Lite

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    You do realise that what you end up with is a monitor with subjective good quality, but with colors that are far from being accurate?
     
  8. solaris54

    solaris54 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,162
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Well I think you have to do what is pleasing to your eyes after a certain point especially if other calibration means are not working.
    The saturation control on the ATI catalyst works for me after fighting with many monitors and the wide color gamut. Why not use it if it makes you happy with your monitor? At this point I am very pleased with the way my PQ and colors look on all of my monitors. I could not get this with the Nvidia control panel.
     
  9. goodCat

    goodCat [H]Lite

    Messages:
    78
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    In this manner even the tones that are displayed correctly will be washed out, resulting in serious inconsistencies. In other words, this will only fool your eyes, but the problem is still there.

    Anyway we are drifting away from the subject of this topic, which concerns the calibration of wg monitors.
     
  10. solaris54

    solaris54 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,162
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    I promise you that the colors are not washed out unless you turn the saturation all the way down to zero. You have control over how vibrant you want your colors. In fact you can even do your calibration with the Spyder3 and since it wont corrrect the oversaturation then use the Saturation control on Catalyst to put the colors where you want them.

    Anyway let the OP find out for himself. If he has an ATI card he will have no problems.
    I've already been through this whole experience. His only other option will be to live with oversaturated colors.
     
  11. Oubadah

    Oubadah [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,564
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    There has to be a way to turn down saturation/digital vibrance on a PC with an nvidia card. Do any of the third party apps (nHancer etc.) add such a function?

    It would take Nvidia no time at all to add negative values to the slider in their next driver release. I guess we could lobby for it, but we would all be dead by the time they got around to it...
     
  12. Forceman

    Forceman [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,243
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2005
    Adjusting the saturation via the control panel is going to mute all the colors, it isn't going to "remap" the colors to match the sRGB color space. There is no way to "correct" for wide gamut in non-color managed apps - you can dull down the colors, but that is not going to adjust them evenly. While it may look better to some, the colors will not be accurate, if you care about that.
     
  13. Oubadah

    Oubadah [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,564
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    I know, but I'd rather have my colours dulled down than oversaturated.
     
  14. chklin

    chklin Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    404
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Well, reducing saturation shrinks the color gamut of the monitor. Sure, the reduced gamut will only resemble, but not exactly match sRGB, but the same problem goes for standard gamut monitors as well. If you calibrate the monitor afterwards (in reduced saturation), you should get pretty accurate colors.

    I don't think manipulating saturation affects your ability to calibrate the monitor. Manipulating saturation and color calibration work in different ways: the former adjusts the relation between the primary colors, and the latter adjusts the output of each primary color independently. This is why you cannot solve the wide gamut inaccuracy by calibration alone: the model used for calibration cannot handle that kind of problem. On the other hand, due to their independence, these two kinds of adjustments should (at least in principle) work well together.

    Of course, compared with using a standard-gamut monitor, there are at least two downsides. First, you still need to decide an appropriate saturation setting, and I am not sure how you can do that. Second, you will lose some color resolution (most severe in pure colors), but that should not be too bad.
     
  15. dandv

    dandv n00b

    Messages:
    20
    Joined:
    May 7, 2009
    There are actually many 24" non-TN monitors that are standard gamut. I'm doing the same kind of research right now and have compiled the results at http://wiki.dandascalescu.com/reviews/displays

    Unfortunately, no. I've been looking into this for over a month as well, until I returned my HP LP2475W today. Apparently Windows 7 will be color-managed, but I don't want to upgrade to it.

    An example where colors are oversaturated in a way that drives me mad are red cells in an Excel spreadhseet. I often work with such a color-coded spreadsheet and I hate how the RED burns my retina.
     
  16. PC_User

    PC_User [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,022
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    I haven't really noticed oversaturation except on a few shades of red/blue in very rare instances when looking at photos. Haven't noticed any changes in games relative to my old Dell 2405FPW.