Why Twitter Faves #NetNeutrality

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Twitter made a blog post yesterday giving its full support to the FCC's net neutrality proposal. Well, at least I think that's what "faves #NetNeutrality" is supposed to mean.

Safeguarding the historic open architecture of the Internet and the ability for all users to “innovate without permission” is critical to American economic aspirations and our nation’s global competitiveness. These rules also have important implications for freedom of expression.
 
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I'm completely ignorant toward the net neutrality thing, but I have gotten the impression that the Internet is fucked regardless of what decisions are made.
 
When it was first mentioned, i was like YAY, but the fact that the proposal is being kept secret now and that the federal elections commissions is involved i can't help but think its a absolute fucking terrible thing they are going to do and just make things worse
 
I'm completely ignorant toward the net neutrality thing, but I have gotten the impression that the Internet is fucked regardless of what decisions are made.

Well the question is what will the future Internet protect that the current Internet does not?

ISP's already are obligated to block "illegal" content (pirating sites, elephant porn, etc)

I haven't heard of any "public" case of a website being blocked from the Internet JUST BECAUSE.

I can express myself however I want on the Internet so long as it complies with established legal laws and the guidelines of the website itself.

So how is what government has proposed for "Net Neutrality" any different from any of this?

There are only 2 possibilities. Either this whole thing comes down to the big boys not wanting to pony up the cash for using most of the bandwidth (the so called "1%" term that many Americans like to use). Or, the government is using this as an opportunity to wrangle in the wild west and get the Internet under control....to make it more.....government friendly.
 
Since I have lost all faith in American media to communicate to me honestly about a politicized issue and since I have lost all faith in American politics to make the correct decisions - I have no confidence that I really understand what is being done here and why, and I have no confidence that things will be in any way "better" for me as a result.
 
It's all about control. The government wants it all. Period.
 
I just can't trust anything that's hush hush. There are probably a lot of good things, but a lot of nasty too. Rumors of higher taxes, fairness police with political sites, greater challenges for newcomer businesses trying to make a dent in the industry. Hopefully not as bad as the rumors let on, but I certainly doubt this is the best we can come up with.

I'm thinking 1 step forward, two steps back. AT&T and Blackberry are ramping up their efforts in making it work right for them. Particularly Blackberry wants "fairness" in apps developed. If you make an app for one platform, then make it for all.
 
I think we can all bet the farm that whatever is released will be catered to the big corporate players. They are the ones with money and will have bought all the decision makers by now.
 
It's all about control. The government wants it all. Period.

They already have control of this though. The slippery slope arguments don't really work here. It'd be like if the government was proposing to create a nationwide high speed rail system and then claiming it was going to give them control of interstate travel. They already have control of interstate travel.
 
This is what everyone needs to know about net neutrality. If the FCC proposal does ANYTHING more than say that all packets are to treated the same regardless of origin or destination is a democrat political game. If it does not state that all packets are to be treated the same regardless of origin or destination it's a republican political game.

The republicans want to give the ISPs control of the internet so they can monetize connections that are already paid for by all of us.

We all pay for our internet connections. Consumers pay for theirs. Google pays for it's connections. Netflix pays for it's connections (now direct point to point links because ISPs have extorted it out of them by letter peering points saturate).

ISPs should not be able to prioritize packets and create "fast lanes" for packets from companies that pay them extra directly. It's bullshit.

BTW if you're curious, I'm a conservative Republican and I'm for NetNeutrality.
 
They already have control of this though. The slippery slope arguments don't really work here. It'd be like if the government was proposing to create a nationwide high speed rail system and then claiming it was going to give them control of interstate travel. They already have control of interstate travel.

You ain't see nothing yet about control. Ask any bureaucrat if they think they have enough control. There are limits which can be unlocked so long as the citizens don't make a fuss.
 
They already have control of this though. The slippery slope arguments don't really work here. It'd be like if the government was proposing to create a nationwide high speed rail system and then claiming it was going to give them control of interstate travel. They already have control of interstate travel.

The argument does work here. They do want more control. It's what govt does. Especially the liberals/socialists in govt.
You really think Obamacare is about getting every poor soul insurance because the govt felt so bad about it? :rolleyes:
 
The argument does work here. They do want more control. It's what govt does. Especially the liberals/socialists in govt.
You really think Obamacare is about getting every poor soul insurance because the govt felt so bad about it? :rolleyes:

Your obvious political bias is obvious. Don't try to pretend that they aren't all this way.
 
Well the question is what will the future Internet protect that the current Internet does not?

ISP's already are obligated to block "illegal" content (pirating sites, elephant porn, etc)

I haven't heard of any "public" case of a website being blocked from the Internet JUST BECAUSE.

I can express myself however I want on the Internet so long as it complies with established legal laws and the guidelines of the website itself.

So how is what government has proposed for "Net Neutrality" any different from any of this?

There are only 2 possibilities. Either this whole thing comes down to the big boys not wanting to pony up the cash for using most of the bandwidth (the so called "1%" term that many Americans like to use). Or, the government is using this as an opportunity to wrangle in the wild west and get the Internet under control....to make it more.....government friendly.

Ok so these kind of questions are the leading questions used by anti-neutrality advocates. The ole "but everything seems fine now, why change a good thing!".

Because Big-ISP has already shown their cards. Sure the internet is nice and open and there are no fast lanes at the moment. But they have already proven that that is exactly what they intend to do. Websites that compete with their own will have to pay higher rates. In fact any service that they feel like charging more for they can and WILL do. They already DID!

The only reason you didnt notice it was because Netflix ate the cost instead of passing it on the the customer. Imagine if everyone's netflix bill went up to $20/month now to pay for their "highspeed data" as opposed to "regular speed" like they had been. Maybe then the 3% of people who are against net neutrality would drop to 2%. The problem with keeping the public informed is that content providers were quick to realize what ISP's were about to unleash and dropped the hammer immediately before Joe Sixpack had a chance to wrap his head around it.

It's called preventative maintenance. We want to be proactive here and institute a law in place before it all goes to shit, instead of just reacting after the fact once we realized how badly we have been screwed.
 
They already have control of this though. The slippery slope arguments don't really work here. It'd be like if the government was proposing to create a nationwide high speed rail system and then claiming it was going to give them control of interstate travel. They already have control of interstate travel.

These nihilist "mope about it, but ulitmately stop fighting and surrender because it doesn't matter" arguments are as useful as tits on a bull.
 
Cuz evil giant faceless monopolies are soooooo much better.

If a giant faceless monopoly (which really isnt' faceless) is at arm's length from the government and not sexing it up through some regulatory body, you have a chance of turning to courts of the legisltative bodies of government for help espeically if you can interest the media.

If the govenment or a government/corporate cabal is screwing you, you have no one to turn to.
 
Since I have lost all faith in American media to communicate to me honestly about a politicized issue and since I have lost all faith in American politics to make the correct decisions - I have no confidence that I really understand what is being done here and why, and I have no confidence that things will be in any way "better" for me as a result.

You may be shocked at your own statement here, but what you've said is pretty much sop for everybody...It's called "maturity"...;) When a person realizes that politicians pander to get votes, create artificial crises which they claim only they can fix, and that pretty much the only things politicians really care about is getting reelected and being "elite"--a person can be said to have "grown up" to an extent. It isn't just "American politics"--it's politics everywhere. That's why the US has so many checks & balances in its system--to keep politicians honest to whatever extent that even is possible. In politics, perfection is never a choice: rather, politics boils down to accepting the lesser of two (or more) evils most of the time, unfortunately.

.
 
If a giant faceless monopoly (which really isnt' faceless) is at arm's length from the government and not sexing it up through some regulatory body, you have a chance of turning to courts of the legisltative bodies of government for help espeically if you can interest the media.

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Ok so these kind of questions are the leading questions used by anti-neutrality advocates. The ole "but everything seems fine now, why change a good thing!".

Because Big-ISP has already shown their cards.

Big ISP brought you the Internet you use everyday--not the government--which also did not pay any ISPs huge sums to roll out the Internet--another Urban Legend. Yes, they've shown their cards--they spell I-n-t-e-r-n-e-t. Government has no such card, don't ya' know...;) But the government wants such a card--because ultimately politicians want to be able to control the speech and other freedoms that at the moment are beyond their control via the Internet--and they are afraid of the Internet because right now, the Internet is both open and free. That is what many politicians find so objectionable about it. If the government tries to in effect nationalize the Internet then it doesn't take a genius to know why: the government wants to control it, tax it, regulate it, etc.

Most of the guys on the FCC wouldn't know how to diagram a light-switch wall circuit, yet some people think these 5 (five) political appointees should "regulate" the Internet for the other 320,000,000 Americans & the millions from other countries that log on to US sites daily. People think of the FCC as "good" and the ISPs as "bad" because, like Pavlov's dogs, they have been conditioned to hold those opinions. That's a shame. Before they take over a given market sector, unscrupulous politicians first try and "demonize" it so they can appear to be righteous saviors acting only in the public good. It's a distinctive pattern, and if you live long enough you'll see it repeated over and over again.

No matter what the FCC releases Friday, it will be challenged in court and in Congress--"Title II" has the distinct characteristic of helping to shape the government's long-distance AT&T monopoly, which ruined long distance service in the US until the '80's when a Federal judge broke up the government monopoly and the entire long-distance industry in the US was deregulated--that's when innovation blew through the roof and the foundations were laid for smartphones, etc. Why would anyone want to go back to Ma Bell's Title II? Title II has already failed in a spectacular fashion, and it failed in the industry for which it was custom-made--doesn't take much thought to see how it will fail spectacularly again when applied to the Internet...!

Obama and pals are not above taking away your Internet if it means that they and people of like-minded philosophies come out on top. No matter what the FCC releases on Friday you can be sure there will be legislative and judicial fights over it for years to come.
 
My gripe/worry/confusion (other adjectives probably fit too).. What happens to traffic shaping?

I used to work for an ISP and we used traffic shaping fairly heavily in some locations (colleges for example) back in the days of Napster. I assume that it is a pretty big function now days as well.

Giving higher priority to 'essential' traffic and lower priority to bandwidth hogs that are not essential (netflix for example) is key to a usable internet.

The expense of putting up new pipes. We have a handful of Large ISPs that control the bandwidth mainly because they're the only ones that can afford to setup and maintain it.

seems to me we would be better served if we put more time and energy into making protocols better and more efficient so that a 1080p video doesn't hog all the bandwidth and can use less.
 
But the government wants such a card--because ultimately politicians want to be able to control the speech and other freedoms that at the moment are beyond their control via the Internet--and they are afraid of the Internet because right now, the Internet is both open and free. That is what many politicians find so objectionable about it. If the government tries to in effect nationalize the Internet then it doesn't take a genius to know why: the government wants to control it, tax it, regulate it, etc.

Politicians are far from the only ones that don't like free speech. There's plenty of people that don't like others expressing opinions different from theirs, from religious institutions to large private businesses.

But as far a free speech is concerned I the US is overall pretty good about it. I think sometimes people confuse free speech with freedom from the implications of speech which are two completely different subjects but by in large, people can say what they want. But there may be implications to doing so. That's just how it works and always will and it's got nothing to do with government.

Sometimes people simply write a check with their mouth (or Twitter account, Facebook page, etc) that their ass can't cash.
 
This is what everyone needs to know about net neutrality. If the FCC proposal does ANYTHING more than say that all packets are to treated the same regardless of origin or destination is a democrat political game. If it does not state that all packets are to be treated the same regardless of origin or destination it's a republican political game.

The republicans want to give the ISPs control of the internet so they can monetize connections that are already paid for by all of us.

We all pay for our internet connections. Consumers pay for theirs. Google pays for it's connections. Netflix pays for it's connections (now direct point to point links because ISPs have extorted it out of them by letter peering points saturate).

ISPs should not be able to prioritize packets and create "fast lanes" for packets from companies that pay them extra directly. It's bullshit.

BTW if you're curious, I'm a conservative Republican and I'm for NetNeutrality.
how would it be a republican political play when the white house wrote it? the FCC chair that proposing it is democrate? Dont' get me wrong the republican party deserves its fair share of blame on alot of shit, They listen the needs of the chamber of commerce over the needs of their constituents but i just dont think they deserve the blame other than going along with it.

Also the fact they they all the sudden dropped apposition means its probably just a power grab and wont really impact the ISPs
 
Big ISP brought you the Internet you use everyday--not the government--which also did not pay any ISPs
You act like they did us a favor. ISP's simply did want any other entrepreneurial enterprise would, they seized on a highly lucrative product and commenced to learn how to make money with it.


huge sums to roll out the Internet--another Urban Legend.
There is no urban legend about it, major ISP's have received subsidies from the gov't to assist in their rollout. If you dont believe this I dont know what to tell you. Look it up perhaps?

Yes, they've shown their cards--they spell I-n-t-e-r-n-e-t. Government has no such card, don't ya' know...;)
I dont know what point you are trying to drive home here, but ISP's have exposed what their true intention is, and that is to control the internet in a manner most profitable for them. If they can charge more money to access certain websites then that is exactly what they did, and exactly what they will do. They want to model the internet the way they model their TV plans. You pay for access to certain things. You want access to Facebook and Youtube? That will require our Blogger Plus™ package for only $9.99 extra sir.


But the government wants such a card--because ultimately politicians want to be able to control the speech and other freedoms that at the moment are beyond their control via the Internet--and they are afraid of the Internet because right now, the Internet is both open and free.
This is just stupid conspiratorial nonsense. Our country prides its very self on freedom of speech. At no point have we seen such liberties diminished, and I'm pretty sure the internet isn't suddenly the last bastion for it that the gov't finally realizes it can take from us compared to the last couple of centuries when they had such opportunities.


[/quote]That is what many politicians find so objectionable about it. If the government tries to in effect nationalize the Internet then it doesn't take a genius to know why: the government wants to control it, tax it, regulate it, etc. [/quote] Good thing the government isn't trying to nationalize it, any more than they nationalized ATT. Do you even know what net neutrality is? And for someone who has such distrust in politicians, why are you suddenly 100% gung-ho on their side when it comes to neutrality? Guess who isnt in favor or neutrality, every single content creator in this country! Are they all just a bunch of idiots and only you & comcast see the light?

People think of the FCC as "good" and the ISPs as "bad" because, like Pavlov's dogs, they have been conditioned to hold those opinions.
What about Google? And facebook? And Twitter? And the other several hundred A-list enterprises of today? They're all just a bunch of easily manipulated dog's of Pavlov too?

That's a shame. Before they take over a given market sector, unscrupulous politicians first try and "demonize" it so they can appear to be righteous saviors acting only in the public good. It's a distinctive pattern, and if you live long enough you'll see it repeated over and over again.
SO THEN WHY IN THE HELL ARE YOU SUPPORTING THEIR DECISIONS AGAINST NET NEUTRALITY?! If distrustful self-serving public pandering politicians are siding with internet monopolies then by your logic we should do the exact opposite and ignore their pleas. Net neutrality is an obvious win here.

No matter what the FCC releases Friday, it will be challenged in court and in Congress--"Title II" has the distinct characteristic of helping to shape the government's long-distance AT&T monopoly
So is this the new talking point? Suddenly ATT is a gov't monopoly that way you can use neutrality's arguments against itself?

which ruined long distance service in the US until the '80's when a Federal judge broke up the government monopoly and the entire long-distance industry in the US was deregulated--that's when innovation blew through the roof and the foundations were laid for smartphones, etc.
What in the hell are you talking about? You really need to get off whatever blog you're sourcing all of your information from. This is so factually incorrect I dont know where to begin. And the break up of carrier monopoly's had nothing to do with Title II. Title II is what allowed smaller phone carriers and even early dialup internet to leach off of the infrastructure put in place by the original monopolies. And while it is true that deregulation will stimulate innovation, that is only true during the initial phases of such. The internet has still been a burgeoning new concept that is constantly redefining our expectations and usage of things. But the growth of the internet is starting to slow down now. There is less and less innovation created, businesses are finding their niches, and it soon it will just be another one of those things like running water and electricity that we have all grown up with and use on a daily basis. At that point once the juice fails to flow, a lack of regulation will result in total abuse as businesses like Comcast seek other ways to monetize their lack of fresh ideas. Instead of innovation there will just be exploitation, and we have already seen the beginning of it thus far with their failure to Compete with online digital distribution. Their answer to competing with Netflix? Cap em.
 
nothing of substance to offer

Because having a central all-powerful body spells freedom and prosperity for all. Like it even needs to be discussed. :(

It took 600 years to crawl out from under Serfdom, and division of power was how it happened. Why people want to turn back the clock because its being sold with updated 20th century Advertising tactics beats me.
 
Wait the entire Net Neutrality 300 page FCC document is completely secret. No one knows what is in it. Anyone who is pro-net neutrality is a fool because you literally have NO IDEA what it is yet are blindly arguing for it.

The scary thing is these people who support this actually are allowed to vote.
 
Once you start the process of regulating something, it never stops as it will only become a one way street. That alone should be of big concern. How long before beaurocraps and blood suckers decide to start spreading their tentacles in order to gain more control? you guys do realize that the internet being regulated as a utility will almost guarantee that we will pay more? How long before it becomes a tool that is used to promote so called social justice and itself becomes involved in way more than just being about the freedom of information? Net neutrality should be exactly what it sounds like, but beaurocraps use innocent sounding things to misguide people into becoming sheep. I supported so called net neutrality until I started realizing just what implications are involved.
 
It's so dumb arguing with the 1% here who were so easily manipulated by talk radio or wherever they got their ideas about what neutrality is, where it came from, and what will most likely happen as a result.

Dont worry kids, the grown up's did all the heavy lifting on this one for you. Enjoy your fucking internet for decades to come. I know you wont be grateful, I know you'll forget this moment and hope we all forget your ludicrous comments against neutrality, but we'll always remember back how there was the vocal minority who were so easily tricked out of their own best interests.
 
It's just that fringe percentage of people, a rounding error more like it, of those will always take the absurd side of things. Their numbers are equal the those who would replace the world's water supply with Gatorade. There will always be a few out there, just gotta ignore them and trust that the system will work itself out.
 
It's so dumb arguing with the 1% here who were so easily manipulated by talk radio or wherever they got their ideas about what neutrality is, where it came from, and what will most likely happen as a result.

Dont worry kids, the grown up's did all the heavy lifting on this one for you. Enjoy your fucking internet for decades to come. I know you wont be grateful, I know you'll forget this moment and hope we all forget your ludicrous comments against neutrality, but we'll always remember back how there was the vocal minority who were so easily tricked out of their own best interests.

If you look at enough good history there's opposition to most any and everything, things that are today taken for granted. Hindsight is 20/20. But even then there's pockets of resistance that remain. I figure that if my existence as a human being that isn't owned by someone is a subject for debate then anything is fair game.
 
Because having a central all-powerful body spells freedom and prosperity for all. Like it even needs to be discussed. :(

It took 600 years to crawl out from under Serfdom, and division of power was how it happened. Why people want to turn back the clock because its being sold with updated 20th century Advertising tactics beats me.

You realize net neutrality doesn't mean that the government provides the internet and shuts down the private companies right?
 
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