Why is the core2extremes so expensive

[kenshin23]

I never understood whats behind the extremes like the E8400 is 45nm and is 3.0ghz while the
intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 Conroe 2.93GHz is still 1,000 bucks wtf is that like its 65nm two ?!?!?!??!?!?! please some one explain.

 

[HardwareGuru]

Well one of the main difference is the fact that the Extreme series CPUs from Intel have an unlocked multiplier setting which allows you to increase and decrease the multiplier number. The E8400 Dual Core and other E series Intel CPUs are locked where it can't be adjusted. These Extreme processors were known to having faster FSB, larger cache also and higher clock speeds when they were first released. But, with the 45 Dual Core cpus, it does not make any sense to purchase an Extreme Processor.

 

[LeviathanZERO]

Intel seems to think cache has stayed expensive since the dawn of time.
The real difference (and what you are paying for) is the extra cache.

This has been the main difference with their highest end, since the original Pentium Pro or P2s.(somewhere early 90's)

 

[Wildfire788]

The non-extreme processors do not allow you to up the multiplier for different overclocking options (though you can lower it).

None of the Core 2 Extremes seem to have any more cache than their non-extreme counterparts so I don't think it has anything to do with cache. So basically you are paying an extra $800 for a fully unlocked multiplier.

 

[Mithent]

They cost that much because Intel hope that people will pay it for the unlocked multiplier. There's generally no good reason to do so.

 

[DemonDiablo]

Intel seems to think cache has stayed expensive since the dawn of time.
The real difference (and what you are paying for) is the extra cache.

This has been the main difference with their highest end, since the original Pentium Pro or P2s.(somewhere early 90's)

...you're not paying for the extra cache, you're paying for the unlocked multiplier...

 

[RussianHAXOR]

I never understood whats behind the extremes like the E8400 is 45nm and is 3.0ghz while the
intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 Conroe 2.93GHz is still 1,000 bucks wtf is that like its 65nm two ?!?!?!??!?!?! please some one explain.

No real competition.

 

[DemonDiablo]

No real competition.

Actually the Extreme line was made in response to the FX line. Roll those eyes elsewhere. I swear you people have the memory span of a squirrel.

 

[RussianHAXOR]

Actually the Extreme line was made in response to the FX line. Roll those eyes elsewhere. I swear you people have the memory span of a squirrel.

You fail to realize that im talking about the price... not the fact that there is an extreme line.

 

[septimus]

The Pentium Extreme Edition had hyper threading in addition to two cores for a total of four logical processors. It would have been interesting to see the quad core extreme slapping you in the face with 8 logical CPUs but it seems hyper threading has died with the net burst architecture. There really does not seem to be anything that justifies the price.

 

[Xeanor]

Unless you're a real overclocking junkie, it's a complete waste of cash. If you start talking about price/performance, even when overclocked, it's an ever bigger waste of cash.

 

[Finny76]

How far can you Overclock an Extreme processor?

 

[RussianHAXOR]

How far can you Overclock an Extreme processor?

A bit more than the locked multiplier non-extreme versions. These chips are usually binned and unlocked for overclocking... its pretty funny though that they sell them as overclocker chips but tell you that you cant overclock.

 

[Simpson5774]

A bit more than the locked multiplier non-extreme versions. These chips are usually binned and unlocked for overclocking... its pretty funny though that they sell them as overclocker chips but tell you that you cant overclock.

Kind of like car companies making cars that can go way above any speed limit in the US, but they can't tell you to do it, but they want you too .

One thing has been constant, every extreme edition has been around $1000 and up (except for some OEM Pent D EE I remeber), even when AMD was stomping them into the ground. I think EE also means your paying for the highest binned chips although their is nothing in writing to that effect.

 

[firas]

as everyone mentioned, your are paying the huge extra $$ for the unlocked multiplier
This means 2 things:
1-The unlocked multiplier will not benefit you unless you overclock the CPU, so buying an extreme CPU and keeping it on stock speed is worthless
2-The unlocked multiplier will not benefit you unless you overclock the CPU to a speed that increasing the FSB only won’t allow you to reach, so it’s also worthless to buy an extreme CPU like the QX9650 and overclock it to 3600Mhz cuz the QX9650 can already hit that speed by increasing the FSB only and without having to increase the multiplier

and to reach higher speeds than those you can reach by increasing the FSB only you will need better cooling, the better the cooling the higher speeds you can reach, unlike the non-extreme CPU’s that will bottleneck you to a certain speed even if you super cooled it cuz it has a locked multiplier and the FSB is limited to a certain point (FSB wall)

 

[Atech]

The Pentium Extreme Edition had hyper threading in addition to two cores for a total of four logical processors. It would have been interesting to see the quad core extreme slapping you in the face with 8 logical CPUs but it seems hyper threading has died with the net burst architecture. There really does not seem to be anything that justifies the price.

Hyperthreading will appear again in the Nehamlem line of CPU, the top-model should be an 8 core Nehalem with HT giving 16 threads at once.

 

[Concentric]

Most people won't know about about multipliers or cache or any of the technical details but they'll see the processor is "Extreme" and has the highest clockrate of the range, so the ones with money will splash out on them.

 

[firas]

Most people won't know about about multipliers or cache or any of the technical details but they'll see the processor is "Extreme" and has the highest clockrate of the range, so the ones with money will splash out on them.

that’s right, bad for them, good for us , we know that an overclocked $250 CPU will beat a stock $1500 CPU

 

[Atech]

that’s right, bad for them, good for us , we know that an overclocked $250 CPU will beat a stock $1500 CPU

That chats is useless unless the QX9770 gets overclocked too...

 

[chrisf6969]

The past several Exteme Editions have had NO extra cache. In fact, I believe only ONE version had extra cache. The P4 with 2Mb of cache vs. the standard P4 w/ 512Kb, those EE's were based on the Xeon's which back in that day. Those were probably the only EE that were worth the money, b/c the cache did help performance a lot, and you can't add cache. The other advantanges like speed / multiplier you can simply make up for by overclocking.

The past several editions of the EE have just had minor improvements, like the Pentium D had Hyperthreading enabled on both cores, so you could have 4 threads vs. the stanrdard Pentium D dual core. Not really worth it IMHO. Most apps didn't get any improvement, and I think it actually hurt performance in a few apps.

Then they are usually offered in the top speed grade, once again not really worth it since you can overclock any chip up a speed grade or 2 and usually hit the EE speeds + ++.

Then lastly the last several editions of EE's have had unlocked multipliers, which Intel probably in response to AMD's FX chips being unlocked. Which is a very nice feature to have, but I doubt it worth the several hundred $ premuim you pay over a chip 1-2 speed grades down.

The last EE the QX9650 was actually the most tempting to me b/c it was the only chip out made with the 45nm process which obviously overclocked a lot better and ran cooler than all of the similar 65nm chips. So that was semi worthy of the higher price.

But in general EE's are just overpriced version of the non-EE chips. The reason their price is so high is b/c there are people who WILL pay that price. If noone paid then they'd drop the price.

 

[Scali2]

The real reason is that apparently the shops have never lowered the prices. They are still charging the prices that these CPUs had at their introduction. This Extreme dates back from the earliest generation. This generation has since been replaced with the 1333 FSB models (which gets you eg the E6850 with 1333 bus and 3 GHz speed, which is faster and cheaper than this CPU).

I've seen this happen quite often over the years. The Extremes don't sell very well, and shops get stuck with unsold stock. Technically the value of the CPU has depreciated, and there was no pricecut because the CPU was taken out of production. Shops generally only cut prices when they buy new batches from Intel at these lower prices, or when Intel refunds them the difference on CPUs they already have in stock.

So basically this Extreme CPU is a relic of times gone by. The shop probably hopes that at some point someone will be stupid enough to buy it, so they can have a rare 'Extreme' processor!, and the shop won't lose any money over it.
In most businesses, shops tend to lower prices anyway, to move old stock. For some reason it's different in the computer industry.

But anyway, in a nutshell that's why Extreme processors are always expensive, even when they're outdated. It's not Intels fault... back when this CPU came on the market, it was the top model, and the top model always costs about $1000... I remember that the E6700 under it was about $850, and the E6600 was about $500. So the Extreme was priced pretty much in line with the other high-end models back then.
You can even find outdated E6600s or E6700s sometimes that go for higher prices than newer, faster Core2 Duo CPUs. Basically for the same reason: old stock that shops refuse to lose money over.

It's also the reason why I rarely upgrade my CPU. Usually by the time I start thinking about upgrading, there's been at least one newer generation, which usually isn't compatible with my motherboard, so I have to buy outdated CPUs at a premium. In which case I prefer to buy a new motherboard aswell and get a more up-to-date and faster system overall. More expensive, but better value for money.

 

[DemonDiablo]

You fail to realize that im talking about the price... not the fact that there is an extreme line.

The price has absolutely nothing to do with the ability of the competition. It's just a super inflated premium that Intel set on their extreme line b/c the competition started it first. If amd had introduced the FX line at 800 bucks you would be seeing the extremes at 800 as well. Theres no "logic" behind the pricing other than that they can do it and they know there are idiots that will be it (they being intel and amd).

So no, its not priced high because of a "lack of competition", its priced high b/c Intel knows they can sell a fair share of them at that price point as they have done so in the past and will do so in the future.

 

[DonDon]

its priced high b/c Intel knows they can sell a fair share of them at that price point

Damn, you just beat me to it.

Because they can!

They prolly didn't mass produce the EE chips at the volume that the mainstream chips get built. Hence, they don't have boatloads of them to clearance when they move on to a new model.

They simply leave their "premium" line at a premium and move on with no big hit on the bottom line for out of date stock.

The whole premis for the EE chips now is mainly for the e-penis crowd. The true enthusiast knows you can DO better for a fraction of the cost. It's not just about having a cool sig.

Don

 

[sofarfrome]

A bit more than the locked multiplier non-extreme versions. These chips are usually binned and unlocked for overclocking... its pretty funny though that they sell them as overclocker chips but tell you that you cant overclock.

I have seen QX9650 CPUs that OC like crap. Some are having trouble getting them beyond 4.1GHz. It doesn't matter if it is a $1100 chip or a $200 chip. It is the luck of the draw.

 

[trudude]

That chats is useless unless the QX9770 gets overclocked too...

True, but if the QX9770 is at the top end of the stock clock speeds then that is the fastest that anyone "needs" and fastest that anyone can get. That is why a Q9450 will ALWAYS be the better buy for the "people in the know".

 

[Atech]

True, but if the QX9770 is at the top end of the stock clock speeds then that is the fastest that anyone "needs" and fastest that anyone can get. That is why a Q9450 will ALWAYS be the better buy for the "people in the know".

No it isn't...fallacy.
Overclock a bunch of QX9770's...then you can talk about comparing hem to regular CPU's.
I will bet you that you can find people here that would love MORE than a QX9700 offers.

 

[Mithent]

Well, buying the highest-clocked chip guarantees that you don't get one of the weaker ones (because they wouldn't run at the speed of the fastest chip, and be binned for lower frequencies), but it's certainly no guarantee that it will necessarily overclock well above that, or that the cheapest chip won't overclock just as well or better, if they have a glut of good-clocking chips (as Intel generally has had recently).

 

[trudude]

No it isn't...fallacy.
Overclock a bunch of QX9770's...then you can talk about comparing hem to regular CPU's.
I will bet you that you can find people here that would love MORE than a QX9700 offers.

Wow I need to be more careful how I choose my words. Lets see...

For the price QX9770's don't appeal to a mass market. They overclock very well, but the price versus performance ratio is better on the cheaper chips. That is why Intel waited so long to release the new series of quad cores. They wanted to milk people for the high end as long as they could.

What I was trying to say is that sure the QX9770 is fast and sure people would love to have faster, but if the QX9770 is the fastest thing out there then obviously there is no immediate need to go faster. With that in mind wouldn't it make more sense to own a scaled down quad and just clock it up to that speed or slightly faster instead of shelling out over $1,000 on essentially the same CPU? That is all I am saying. I know that binned QX9770 CPU's can overclock like crazy too, but you also just spent over $1,000 on something you could have waited a little while for. I have NEVER seen a reason to go out and splurge on the Extreme series chips. It's not cause I can't afford it. It is because I can't justify spending 3 times more for something I can get for much cheaper. This is coming from someone that dabbles in phase change and chilled water cooling systems.

 

[trudude]

A good way for me to know when to do a big upgrade is when the stock speeds on CPU's get up to my max stable OC's on my current gear. That is a good indicator as far as I am concerned.