Why doesn't ATI come out with an AGP X1900??

R

Rob94hawk

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I have 2 nforce3-939 AGP rigs. I have no intentions of building another pc just so I can have PCI-E. I currently only play DoW:Winter Assualt online and my 7y/o son plays his Trainz 2004 and 2006 and my 4 y/o plays his hotwheels and other kiddie games.

Since I don't have any intentions on building a new pc for at least 3 years wouldn't it make sense, from a business standpoint, to make a high end graphics card that I could plug into my AGP?

Or is ATI that arrogant thinking I'm going to splurge for a new mobo and OS just cause others have gone the pci-e route? I don't think so. I've never folded to peer pressure.

So instead I'd like to go nvidia since they are catering to us AGP folk. Problem is I can't find their 7900GS AGP on newegg. So if anyone can point me in the right direction I'd like to give nvidia my money. Thank you.
 
They don't do it because there is no market for it. It falls to the AIB partners, if they want to work it out, they can, but the number of people with AGP systems worthy of one of those cards is very very small...
 
Like he said the amount of people able to utilize these cards are few. What are your specs?
 
Gainward made the BLISS 7800 GS SILENT 512MB GS+ which is essentially a 7900 (24 pixel pipelines). However, this is not available in the U.S. nor is it likely you will be able to acquire one without paying a ridiculous amount of cash.

That said, it is more reasonable to buy a pci-e board with a 7900gt. There are no official 7900GS cards that are AGP. The best you can hope for is probably a 7800GS (like, a normal one).
 
If I buy a pcie board dont I have to buy WinXP all over again? And not to mention reinstalling the games! What a pain in the ass!

It's just easier to buy a new card and update the drivers!
 
note235 said:
What are your specs?
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Look at my sig.

And why the hell is the BLISS 7800 GS SILENT 512MB not available in the US? Sounds like bullshit to me.
 
Rob94hawk said:
If I buy a pcie board dont I have to buy WinXP all over again? And not to mention reinstalling the games! What a pain in the ass!

It's just easier to buy a new card and update the drivers!
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Umm, no. As long as it is "the same PC." You may have to call Microsoft to certify the install though. It is a pain in the ass but you really won't find a 7900GS AGP. Considering how nice your rig is, i think it at least deserves the PCI-E anyway :p

Your options are basically this:

A) Buy a 7800GS for $300 (or try to get a 24 pipeline one from UK for >$600)

or

B) Buy a PCI-E board (varies, the ultra-d is 113 @ NE) + 7900GT (24 pipelines). The upgrade path for this route is also a lot better, especially with DX10 cards coming later this year.

Rob94hawk said:
Look at my sig.

And why the hell is the BLISS 7800 GS SILENT 512MB not available in the US? Sounds like bullshit to me.
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Gainward doesn't operate in the US anymore AFAIK.
 
Since I don't have any intentions on building a new pc for at least 3 years wouldn't it make sense, from a business standpoint, to make a high end graphics card that I could plug into my AGP?

Or is ATI that arrogant thinking I'm going to splurge for a new mobo and OS just cause others have gone the pci-e route? I don't think so. I've never folded to peer pressure.

So instead I'd like to go nvidia since they are catering to us AGP folk. Problem is I can't find their 7900GS AGP on newegg. So if anyone can point me in the right direction I'd like to give nvidia my money. Thank you.
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no it doesn't, seeing as the people still on AGP are very happy with the mid end of the market

ATi isn't arrogant, they are thinking the same way NV is, just because NV is releasing more cards for the AGP market doesn't mean they are releasing anything thats blowing the 6800GT out the water...

you only have to buy a new mother board to go PCI-e, dunno where you have to buy another OS and reinstall it...

7900GS AGP is almost vapor ware, plus its not like its that great of a performer anyways over the 7800GS, i think you'll find the 7600GT sooner on AGP then a 7900GS
 
Trimlock said:
you only have to buy a new mother board to go PCI-e, dunno where you have to buy another OS and reinstall it...
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According to Microsoft changing the mobo is the same as changing the computer.
 
Not really if you buy the retail version of WinXP or the legal one ;). I upgraded just fine from an A7N8X and an AthlonXP 2500+. That's one of the benefits of using my Asrock board, however cheap it is. It's fabulous knowing I could upgrade to PCI-E at any time :D.
 
you just have to re initiate it, doesn't mean you have to buy a whole new cd-key

at most, you'll have to reinstall the OS, which is what alot (including myself) would recommend, you can sometimes get away with booting into safe mode, deleting your old motherboard drivers, and install your current ones, but if you decide to get a new motherboard and do the reinstall you can use your current OS
 
Rob94hawk said:
According to Microsoft changing the mobo is the same as changing the computer.
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Check your EULA

"The primary user of the computer on which the SOFTWARE PRODUCT is installed may make a second copy for his or her exclusive use on a portable computer."

If that is on there, you can go ahead and install it (I don't think there is an issue with switching out the motherboard, though.

A home pc is portable, technically. Anyway, I'm almost certain you can change the motherboard and as long as you aren't using your old one on another rig (with XP installed) you can use it on the new one.
 
Rob94hawk said:
According to Microsoft changing the mobo is the same as changing the computer.
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I just changed all the equip for a brand new build. I have installed an OEM ver of XP and authenticated it online with no issues. None of the old equip was reused in the build.
 
i built a whole new pc and had my old main drive in the new build and it booted right up fine, something i didnt expect to happen at all, i then wiped the drive and fresh installed the OS and it still was fine, i have had problems putting windows on other machines though, both legit and non-legit copies.
 
ati needs to get their heads out of the sand they are basterdiseing the entire agp market by denying us a competive alternative to the green 7800gs if they build it people will buy it. i know im not doing the pci-e switchover till the 65nm k8l hell mabe not untill vista ships basically ati needs to step up and stop hideing
 
If you're running a 939 AGP motherboard, there is no reason why you shouldn't buy a new motherboard and video card. You'll pay less money for a new motherboard and video card that will perform better than anything AGP has to offer and it'll have an upgrade path.

Why people are moaning about this is almost entirely absurd to me, UNLESS you've got some sort of sentimental attachment to your motherboard/AGP. The worst part about the whole thing is have to reinstall windows. So then, set aside a saturday afternoon to backup your info to a drive and install windows and your games. Done.

If you're 754, and you aren't satisfied with the performance of a 6800GT/GS/Ultra, I also think it's completely rediculous not to do the motherboard/video card switch, as again you'll have far better performance for less money.

If you're socket A, I think I understand a bit more, but you'll need to pay attention to the fact that if you really need these next-gen cards, you'll need to bite the bullet and ditch your aged tech. You cannot blame video card companies for not producing even FASTER AGP cards that support even older systems when you should be making the move to PCI-E as that is where the upgrade path lies.

Remember: this is all assuming that you aren't satisfied with the performance of a 7800GS (standard american edition), because that means that you're a gamer that wants performance.
 
Rob94hawk said:
I don't think so. I've never folded to peer pressure.

So instead I'd like to go nvidia since they are catering to us AGP folk. Problem is I can't find their 7900GS AGP on newegg. So if anyone can point me in the right direction I'd like to give nvidia my money. Thank you.
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If you dont give in you'll be left out in the cold.

Nvidia is on its last leg in terms of AGP cards, the latest AGP offering is their last agp offering.
 
When I upgraded to my current mobo/cpu/video card I didn't need to reactivate windows. For some reason I did when I upgraded an HD once. :rolleyes:
 
I wish Nvidia would come out with a 7900 PCI graphics card for my old rig, or maybe even a 7900 ISA video card so I can game on my real old computers!!

Graphics outgrew the AGP expansion bus. Its over guys, sorry.

Oh, and by the way - I think that if you change motherboards and you have an OEM copy of Windows then you would have to buy another copy, however, if you have a retail versio nthen you can just get Microsoft to renew it. At least thats the way I understand the licensing.
 
ATi isn't the one you need to bitch at. As noted, it's the AIBs that determine what cards will be built. ATi has the Rialto bridge chip. If an AIB wanted to, they could design a card using this. However, it would require quite a bit of engineering on their part, as ATi has not supplied a reference board. They would have to do the work on design from the ground up.
 
well the AIB's need to do this casue ati is loosing that last battle for agp and leaving loyal customers in the cold as far as hardware being aged my nforce2 rig does a fine job at playing the latest games and such it will be able to hold me till the k8l / vista is ofically apon us all :eek:
 
Rob94hawk said:
If I buy a pcie board dont I have to buy WinXP all over again? And not to mention reinstalling the games! What a pain in the ass!

It's just easier to buy a new card and update the drivers!
Click to expand...

As the philosopher Jagger once said, you can't always get what you want.
 
krameriffic said:
As the philosopher Jagger once said, you can't always get what you want.
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its always eaiser to lay down your arms in the face of a enemy then to fight them.
 
maxius said:
well the AIB's need to do this casue ati is loosing that last battle for agp and leaving loyal customers in the cold as far as hardware being aged my nforce2 rig does a fine job at playing the latest games and such it will be able to hold me till the k8l / vista is ofically apon us all :eek:
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I hear what you are saying. I too have a S754 system that is more than fast enough on the CPU side, but would certainly like to have options for my video. However, at this point I just don't think the AIBs are going to invest that much to make it happen. Now I'm no engineer, but even if an AIB were to start such a project today, I don't think they could have a finished product to market before the first part of next year. This isn't something you just throw together in a few days.
 
Un4given said:
I hear what you are saying. I too have a S754 system that is more than fast enough on the CPU side, but would certainly like to have options for my video. However, at this point I just don't think the AIBs are going to invest that much to make it happen. Now I'm no engineer, but even if an AIB were to start such a project today, I don't think they could have a finished product to market before the first part of next year. This isn't something you just throw together in a few days.
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true but it is something that should be done
 
Rob94hawk said:
According to Microsoft changing the mobo is the same as changing the computer.
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Why the hell would that make you buy a new copy of XP?

Just install it again and verify the installation.
 
lopoetve said:
Why the hell would that make you buy a new copy of XP?

Just install it again and verify the installation.
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QFT

I doesn't mean you need to buy a new copy, it just means you have to re-activate it. Maybe by phone now...I thought I remember them wanting to start a phone-only activation scheme...that or maybe I'm crazy.
 
Well, most companies these days seem to move forwards, not backwards. Why should Ati put their top-of-the-line card out in an old type of interface? AGP is fading out, and you need to deal with it by buying a new motherboard and video card. You will also have to deal with the 5 hours it takes to reload the OS, programs and personal files/games. Chances are, you will not be able to convince the executives of Ati to change their card just for a couple people's needs.
 
maxius said:
well the AIB's need to do this casue ati is loosing that last battle for agp and leaving loyal customers in the cold as far as hardware being aged my nforce2 rig does a fine job at playing the latest games and such it will be able to hold me till the k8l / vista is ofically apon us all :eek:
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your market is so small in comparison, no offence, but they just don't care.
 
well my thought is if nv is getting returns on the 7800 gs why the hell not! Is ati and their AIB partners just too scared to step up to nv
 
I would complain to ATI. I don't think each of the other ATI card companies makes their own boards, if they did you'd see more variety of ATI's cards like Nvidia's (Differen't colored PCB, Clock Speeds, Coolers, UV Reactive parts like XFX....etc.). The most change you see is the sticker on the cooler being changed or HIS putting an Arctic Silencer on it (most extreme case for ATI).

I read somewhere that ATI and another company (Sapphire?) produce all the cards and the other companies just resell them.
 
wow, you just pretty much made an entire post about what you "heard" and "think"

ATi does not force anything other then clocks set on the board, they don't force the board design on the AIB partners, they can do what ever they want, you want to complain that theres no companie putting LEDs on your ATI card complain elsewhere. We see plenty of variations now, its up the AIB partners to put these in, if they wanted to they could there is nothing holding them back anymore.

I read somewhere that ATI and another company (Sapphire?) produce all the cards and the other companies just resell them.
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i would love to see where you read that, sapphire possibly produces the most, and they do have sister companies, but they don't produce for powercolor, or HIS, i have no idea where you heard that or came up with that conspiracy

well my thought is if nv is getting returns on the 7800 gs why the hell not! Is ati and their AIB partners just too scared to step up to nv
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and what? ati isn't getting returns on their AGP parts? maybe they are happy enough with what they are getting with the fast fading out technology that is AGP and arent willing to spend anymore development time or PR to their AIB partners to push out AGP counterparts

not to mention you have any idea how much they would charge for an AGP X1900XTX? its around 500 for PCIe, they could get away with selling it for no less then $700, would you pay that instead of ripping out your old mobo, stick a new one in and get the PCIe version?
 
The 7900GS is going to be PCIe. An X1900 in AGP is un-practical. The price would be higher than switching to PCIe and buying an equivalent video card
 
Trimlock said:
wow, you just pretty much made an entire post about what you "heard" and "think"

ATi does not force anything other then clocks set on the board, they don't force the board design on the AIB partners, they can do what ever they want, you want to complain that theres no companie putting LEDs on your ATI card complain elsewhere. We see plenty of variations now, its up the AIB partners to put these in, if they wanted to they could there is nothing holding them back anymore.
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Care to explain why there's so much variation on Nvidia cards and not ATI cards since you're obviously a specialist and don't have to write what you've heard or think?

Why doesn't Sapphire use a differen't PCB color like XFX?

Why doesn't Powercolor use a modified cooler like BFG has in the past?

Why doesn't Gigabyte do anything to their cards other than put a sticker over the cooler?

You mean to tell me that these companies don't feel the need to compete and create better products with more variety like the NV board makers?

I wonder why they would do that.......
 
maxius said:
well my thought is if nv is getting returns on the 7800 gs why the hell not! Is ati and their AIB partners just too scared to step up to nv
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Only because they're willing to charge 2x the performance point to make money. The market is already saturated; nvidia has pretty much filled it, so entry is too hard. Not to mention that the 7800GS is really pretty slow
 
lopoetve said:
Only because they're willing to charge 2x the performance point to make money. The market is already saturated; nvidia has pretty much filled it, so entry is too hard. Not to mention that the 7800GS is really pretty slow
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slow for pci-e users mabe agp users its the holy grail
 
ATI would probably charge a $100+ premium for an AGP X1900 part. Why would you bother?
 
Care to explain why there's so much variation on Nvidia cards and not ATI cards since you're obviously a specialist and don't have to write what you've heard or think?
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there isn't a huge difference between the board of the different AIB partners and the skews that NV releases. there are the dual GPU board designs by Gigabyte, other then that they are pretty much the same...

Why doesn't Sapphire use a differen't PCB color like XFX?

Why doesn't Powercolor use a modified cooler like BFG has in the past?

Why doesn't Gigabyte do anything to their cards other than put a sticker over the cooler?

You mean to tell me that these companies don't feel the need to compete and create better products with more variety like the NV board makers?

I wonder why they would do that.......
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because they don't need to? why would they put more money, more time into a product they have zero problem with selling? yea thats bright... like i said this is retarded to come up with these conspiracy theories, ATI doesn't force their AIB partners down on the ground with a chocker ball in their mouth and whip them telling them they can't change the clocks, or the cooler, or the PCB design or they'll get maced...
 
slow for pci-e users mabe agp users its the holy grail
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i still fail to see how you would be willing to spend something that costs more then to upgrade to a PCIe board, and get a faster video card? makes zero sense, paying more for less.. only so you don't have to upgrade?
 
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