Why does raytracing suck so much, is it because of nvidia's bad hardware implementation?

Discussion in 'Video Cards' started by Peppercorn, Jun 7, 2019.

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  1. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

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    Could you pointpout where they say "better I.Q. than on a local host"...because that claim is not supported from what I read...
     
  2. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    You guys get how this crap works right... the device rendering the stream makes no difference. Render it on your laptop your tablet your PC screen. Stream is Stream.

    When someone like Land is talking about new markets... of course he doesn't list the one market they already OWN. Doom is going to sell to PC gamers regardless of streaming.
     
  3. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

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    Someone has a habbit of posting undocumented claims...I see a pattern here.
     
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  4. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Guys do some more reading on Stadia... the Google project lead has said in mulitple interviews that developers are jazzed up because they are able to do stuff on server hardware that no one on a PC can do even with the fastest video card on the planet. They are able to load texture sizes not even 16gb home cards can handle. No they have not detailed every little thing they plan to do. Read between the lines its not hard.

    Googles main guy says developers are on board because they don't have to target consoles, and mid range PCs. They can make games that won't run on mid range and low end hardware at all anymore. For years we have got games that target consoles and if we are lucky we can load high rez textures on our fancy PC cards. Stadia and other streaming services are removing that limitation from game developers.

    Land at ID is clearly excited by the tech go read interviews the the guy... I'm not going to do all the googling for you. lol

    And as this is a why does ray tracing suck so much thread. It sucks because no 300-500watt part in your home computer is going to do what still takes hollywood server farms drinking 100s of dollars in electircty every day to do. The faux hybrid rendering being done to day is impressive... but its not as impressive as the performcne cost. A few generations perhaps that is better... however before we get to local hardware being truely capable we are going to get game streaming offering a much better expereince.

    The actual people that develop twich games believe its time... and they haven't right up said the streaming version is going to feature ray tracing. I would assume because they are holding at least a few exciting announcements for closer to launch. (also for the first while they may have to turn those settings off at least on some of their server roll outs) I don't expect every satalitte game cloud server is going to be powerful enough right away to flip full ray tracing on.
     
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  5. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    I posted the interview... read it. I'm not going to to and post further interviews with the Google engineers, there out there. Go look.
     
  6. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

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    No where in THAT article or anywhere else is there a mentation of "streaming giver better eyecandy versus local hosts" posted from ID Soft...Prove me wrong!

    Shall I quote your (false) claim again?
     
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  7. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    "Land also teased that id was busy working on ways to differentiate the Stadia version of Doom Eternal in ways that aren't possible on other platforms. "That is all I'm allowed to say on the subject" for the time being, he added"

    You tell me what he is talking about then ? I would love to hear your prediction. How is Doom Eternal going to be unique on Stadia ?
     
  8. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

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    I am too old to play the fallacy of "shifting the burden of proof".
    You made a claim.
    You are unable to document that claim.

    Like your claim about there being "no RT cores"...

    My life is to short for patological liars....bye.
     
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  9. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It's still new stuff. It looks ok, but not worth the hit right now, unless you are playing a still type game.
    Fast paced games are not a great benefit. The hardware and software will get better and maybe make it worth it.
     
  10. noko

    noko [H]ardness Supreme

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    I look at this way for Google or anyone else that will be doing game streaming. The PC owner would have to spend quite a bit of cash to render games at higher quality but are also disadvantage as well since the games are developed for much lower hardware. Stadia, GFX Now etc. are not limited by this. The games can support max IQ features that the platform can support. Developers do not have to go to the lowest common denominator for game streaming.

    Second is once the PC owner has a rig, it is normally not being used 24/7 for gaming so the cost per hour let say is really high. Contrast that to Stadia where the hardware can recoup the higher costs since it is effectively being used 24/7 by multiple users. One GPU on the Stadia platform is being used more up to 24/7 vice a PC in a home being used 2 hours a day average for example gaming. This would entail that the GPU on the stadia platform could be at a higher cost performing part and still be cheaper for the gamer to use then a dedicated gaming PC. Higher IQ, easier to maintain, cheaper cost, easier and faster for developers to make games which reaches an audience that they is beyond any dream.
    • Fathom that you and 5 over folks invested in a super computer for games going all out with the best hardware, $10,000+ costing each $2000. It could crush what each person would build on their own. Yet you can game on this piece of hardware virtually the same as if it was your own. Still that piece of hardware may not be used 100% of the time. Stadia in contrast could blow that $10,000 plus hardware out of the water and in the end cost cheaper for you use instead with higher quality yet.

    Viable real time raytracing, not just one aspect that drags the performance down significantly may occur first on game streaming. The cost to have such ability on a local PC is extremely high, the 2080Ti really does not cut it for an effective Ray Tracing part, it can give some benefits but the cost of that small subset of ray tracing sucks. Why does raytracing on RTX suck? For one it is the cost to benefit ratio. For BF5 it is a joke, for Tomb Raider and Metro it is noticeable but with a performance loss as well. One has to go back decades to that level game design as in Quake II to actually use full or almost full raytracing. Most I say would not be interested in spending $1200 on just a video card to play Quake II at 1080p 60fps. Compared that to a $10 subscription that has higher quality textures then any current PC game, more ray tracing features, no hassle anywhere with broadband capability without the overhead of everything that goes with PC gaming. The cost to benefit ratio can be extremely good with Stadia for example.
     
  11. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    Not any hardware, at least not any suitable for low latency, no micro stutter, good FPS, gaming. You people are buying this PR corporate bullshitting like it's the next coming of Jesus. There is no server hardware that will make gaming faster.

    LMAO on the gaming supercomputers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
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  12. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    Nah man, they’ll have a $150,000 supercomputer for each user. Movie level ray tracing for $9.95/month. Totally happening bruh.
     
  13. noko

    noko [H]ardness Supreme

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    Show proof . . . can't wait :p

    Looks like you would get one dedicated GPU per session - what level that GPU is at ? ? ? Pretty sure Nvidia GeFroce now was one dedicated 1080. Which for most folks back then was pretty much on top other than 1080 Ti folks. Do not know what they have now. They have multiple servers now streaming games for free - Beta
    https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/geforce-now/server-status/

    They were filling warehouses full of GPU's while the mining craze was still happening (also sending shiploads of GPUs for mining) while gamers were searching for anything buyable for a gaming GPU. Anyways it is happening already.

    GeforceNow.jpg
     
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  14. FearTheCow

    FearTheCow [H]ardness Supreme

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    It's amazing, server side GPU processing is like 3d television.... it pops up every couple of years with a small group of people going around telling everyone how great its going to be and what a game changer it is... then it goes away because it actually sucks and the people touting it never admit how stupid of an idea it is.
     
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  15. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Is this something verifiable with a link or another mis-remember?

    They might have eventual stretch goals, but initially it looks Stadia version 1, is using Vega 56 or equivalent, from everything I read. Ex:
    https://www.techspot.com/news/80137-google-stadia-expected-use-14nm-vega-gpus.html

    Which means it will about the same as locally running Vega 56.
     
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  16. noko

    noko [H]ardness Supreme

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    Except maybe this time people will realize how PC gaming sucks with hardware configurations, maintenance, Windows updates and hassles with drivers, hardware costs and updates, lower quality due to developers targeting lower tier level etc. Could go the other way in other words. Then again if folks can get a better gaming experience with less hassles for a cheaper cost - talking about the majority here - hey welcome to tomorrow. Personally PC gaming is more my thing and it would take a lot for me to shift to streaming only - it better be darn good in any case.
     
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  17. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    I think we’re still 5-10 years from that being viable. It might actually be appealing to low income people. Sort of like consoles... or the future of consoles.

    Maybe we’re mixing up PC with consoles for that streaming garbage. A huge portion of PC gamers won’t care for the inherent latency increase.

    Also you made me think. My PC issues are very rare and far between until I buy something AMD. My 2700x has been flawless though. 2nd gen+ Ryzen seems great, I skipped the first gen.
     
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  18. polonyc2

    polonyc2 [H]ard as it Gets

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    1st gen tech always needs work...plus there are really only 3 RT games available currently- Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Metro Exodus and Battlefield 5...of those only Metro Exodus uses global illumination...BF5 only uses RT for reflections and Tomb Raider only uses it for shadows...so really only 1 game currently with real ray-tracing
     
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