Why do so many people want the X1800 to fail?

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Garric

Limp Gawd
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It just doesnt make sense. I was talking to my friend, we both got 7800 a few weeks ago, I got a GT, he got a GTX. I also got an NForce4 motherboard with SLI, so I'm pretty much stuck with Nvidia, at least for a while. Well anyway, I was talking to him, and he was saying some stupid things. "The X1800 is just utter shit. It's going to suck. I want it to fail." Why do people want the X1800 to fail?

To justify their purchase? Sure, many people bought the 7800 series, and want to have the best card out there. When the X1800 comes out, and is faster than the 7800s, people will feel that they got ripped off or bought an inferior product, since you can get something better. This is not the case, the X1800 doesn't make your card any worse. It's still the same thing, and chances are, you'll still be able to run all of your games on high.

I want the X1800 to own. And I have the 7800GT. Why? It drives technology. Imagine X1800 fails, and the 7800 series is much better. Nvidia will be like "Phew.. that was close!" and will just stick with the 7800 series until ATI can 1-up them. This means less newer cards from Nvidia, which means they won't have to try as hard to win, which means that prices of the newer cards will still stay high. Imagine ATI didn't come along and destroy the FX series, you think Nvidia would have been this strong with their next series? No! They would have just kept the cards, without any point in upgrading them. If ATI "loses", Nvidia can essentially sit on new tech, keep their top cards priced as high as they want, and only release a successor when someone might catch up to them.

So guys, please stop being !!!!!!s, and realize if ATI fails, it's not going to be good for anyone, including you. And this is coming from an Nvidia guy.
 
I don't think people want it to fail, but many people are unconvinced that it will be all that good yet. There is nothing to indicate what the performance will be like.
 
It could that people are paying attention to history: the last time there was this long a delay between the next-generation video card from one company and the responding card from the other company, it was ATi's 9700 Pro that was out first vs. nVidia's FX5800 which was delayed. Everyone knows how well that round went. The same thing could happen this time, only with the tables turned.

What to I want to happen? I hope it's a great card. I hope it beats the 7800 GTX so badly that nVidia has to come up with a 7800 Ultra. I hope that both companies end up competing so hard that prices for mega awesome graphics cards are relatively affordable by the time I build my next computer. :p
 
I consider myself completely neutral. I have an ATi card atm but previously owned 3 nvidia cards. There do seem to be a lot of people with their minds already made up that x1800 will suck. The faked benchmark thread revealed a lot of these people for what they are.
Just looking to validate their very expensive 7800 purchase. FWIW my prediction is top of the line x1800 will beat the 7800GTX by a 5-10% margin with better image quality and features but it will be more expensive. 7800GTX is already down to around 450 and 7800GT around 350. I think the new x1800xt will be over 500 at least until after Christmas. It'll need some time to settle in like the 7800 series. But many ppl will upgrade before Xmas (including me, although I'm going the low-high end card) so we'll see soon enough.
 
DanK said:
It could that people are paying attention to history: the last time there was this long a delay between the next-generation video card from one company and the responding card from the other company, it was ATi's 9700 Pro that was out first vs. nVidia's FX5800 which was delayed. Everyone knows how well that round went. The same thing could happen this time, only with the tables turned.

What to I want to happen? I hope it's a great card. I hope it beats the 7800 GTX so badly that nVidia has to come up with a 7800 Ultra. I hope that both companies end up competing so hard that prices for mega awesome graphics cards are relatively affordable by the time I build my next computer. :p
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Good point by the danker :p (couldn't resist), if you base your expectations on history, one would assume that this is indeed the new NV30 (c'mon, it's months after the GTX, dual slot dustbuster, new manufacturing process, less pipes than GTX, company is tight lipped - not to mention not so optimistic when talking to investors). Nobody wants the R520 to fail, fact is that until a few days ago, ATi didn't even say it existed. I wouldn't mind upgrading to an X1800 come Christmas time if this thing OWNS, but I have my doubts.

(Waits for Shifra to call us all ATi haters and tools of satan in the fight against terrorism, uhhh Nvidia).
 
I don't want it to fail...but I will go nvidia from now on just because I like their people better.

Well, that and I have all these ATi cards already. :)
 
Well cripes you gotta pick a side, Sports, racing, mud wrestling ;) You gotta pick a side.
 
mrgimble said:
Well cripes you gotta pick a side, Sports, racing, mud wrestling ;) You gotta pick a side.
Click to expand...
ok bengals/jeff gordon/anynekkid chick
oh and ATI
 
No one knows what will happen at this point since there are no "valid" benchmarks out yet.

If you are looking at purely specs, then one would assume the x1800 would come in just below the 7800GTX with about 10-15% lower performance.

I also doubt crossfire will be the great thing everyone claims it to be initially. Remember all the problems with SLI??

As far as who wins, I could care less. Just give us fast cards and cheap prices. :D
 
Only Nvidiots want this card to fail because they are brainwashed into thinking that they are the best and their hardware is the best and nothing will ever change that.
 
Even if ATI did fail and went out of buisness, NVIDIA would still keep making better cards.

Why? Because if they did not upgrade their cards, niether would you. You would just keep running the same old card for 10 years (like my soundblaster live card).

Microsoft has no real competition and if they did not release XP, we would all still be using the copy of Windows 98 we bought 7 years ago.

I'm not sure if people want the R520 to fail, they are just tired of hearing about it and not seeing it. The same goes for Crossfire.

Although, if it shows up and it's not as fast as the GTX, but is pretty close, most people will back off a bit.
 
I personally hope that the X1800's do fairly well. I was concerned that Nvidia might have been in trouble financially since ever since the release of the 9700 ATI have been hurting them, but Nvidia has been pretty strong lately, and with the PS3 under their belts, i'm sure they can take a little pain.

SO with that said, I hope that the X1800's do very well against the 7800's.... well I guess I hope that ATI can deliver the R580 soon enough... Nvidia seems to own this generation, no matter what anyone says... any holdouts that didn't buy the 7800 that are willing to buy the R520 and NOT holding out for the next generation are probably part of a very small group....

I hope that ATI can tape out the R580 and get it to market fairly OK, and really put the ball in Nvidia's court to come back hard....

Currently I have a Geforce 6800GT, and I dont run anything over 1024*768 anyway, so this card will be great until my next upgrade, which I think will probably be around Fall 2006 anyway, so by then, hopefully competition will be crazy, and I'll be able to pick up something next gen for a good price....
 
I want teh x1800xt to be faster than the 7800gtx so ati doesn't look stupid and has an inferior product that launches way later and is slower :( but I am gonna wait till real benchies get here.. hehe
 
aZn_plyR said:
I want teh x1800xt to be faster than the 7800gtx so ati doesn't look stupid and has an inferior product that launches way later and is slower :( but I am gonna wait till real benchies get here.. hehe
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I want ATI's R520 to be a winner (faster) so nvidia will then try to release a faster card. THen ATI and so on so on..
 
I think there are just a few vocal people on the boards that try to trash ATI at every turn (since the 6800's/x800's came out). You can't do anything but try to ignore them. Unfortunately they seem to come into any conversation with their bs. Most recently was the bs about Valve's "inferior" HDR use just to support ATI cards. The same people that used to spread bs about ATI cards not being able to perform HDR in the first place!

I own a 7800 GTX and I hope the X1800 flat out owns. That way I can jump back to ATI and get back the kick ass AA/IQ i was used to prior to me getting a 6800 Ultra, then subsequently this card (which is a great card, I just dislike Nvidia's cooky drivers)
 
I don't want it to fail as I need a reason to pour gas on my 7800GTX and lite it on fire :eek:
 
R1ckCa1n said:
I don't want it to fail as I need a reason to pour gas on my 7800GTX and lite it on fire :eek:
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Just give your card to me, and tell your wife/mom that a big, angry skin head jumped out of your monitor and stole your video card...
 
Mister E said:
Only Nvidiots want this card to fail because they are brainwashed into thinking that they are the best and their hardware is the best and nothing will ever change that.
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^^^ This is the only reason........

for !!!!!!s to justify their purchase and feel secure with their e-penis not shrinking cause some card "could" come out that puts the GTX in it's place whether late or not....

I hope it is a better card - drives competition for us.
 
Well I've been an Nvidia fan for a very long time. Since the day of the Riva GPU lol. I don't think anyone wants to see the ATI X1800 series fail. However, as it was stated earlier, there taking to long with releasing there new gen cards. This can truly hurt them in the long run seeing that almost every major computer retailer are including 7x series cards in there systems. The only people hurting ATI is ATI. Most hardcore gamers & enthusiast already own 7x cards. If ATI expects people who already own 7x series cards to buy there cards, there has to be atleast a 10% performance difference in a majority of multiple benchmarks of many different system configurations. There crossfire boards aint looking to good as well with all the negative talks about the resolution issues with that. On the other hand, I do not believe that the 7800GTX is the best 7x card nvidia has to offer. I do feel there putting off a much better version of the 7x line (7800 Ultra I would guess). It's just the way nvidia has worked over the years so I do expect them to pull something off like that if the x1800 cards are that much better than the GTX's. ATI is just giving nvidia way to much time. That may hurt them in the long run. ATI wouldn't want to continue playing catch up which in turn may make them release un polished Video cards with poor driver support. Kinda like the Geforce 4x vs Radeon days.

-DarkLegacy
 
the best i can come up with is not that people want to qualify their 7800s. its more that the super Ati fans were so upset about the nvidia hype and publicity they they took an ultra hard stance on nvidia products. this made the Nvidia fans to get upset and fire back with their own hatred of ati and their soon to be released products. its going to happen no matter what both ATi and Nvidia do. the best thing to do is to ignore it and wait for the products to be out and choose whats your best match. if we find that both are comparable then go with the brand you prefer. i myself am an Nvidia guy and plan to stick with them till i cant anymore. alot of people swear by ATi and refuse to budge from that view point. the way i see it is no matter what, your getting what you want.
 
I ran an ati chipset for almost a year, continuing to wait for the crossfire boards to appear untill I gave up and bought a nf4ultra board to tide be over as the older amd ati chipset just sucked for anything other and my grandma's pc. I will never own another nvidia card so long as I can avoid them. I still have an original geforce1 ddr and a gf2 ultra with 64mb of ram from back when I was an nvidia !!!!!!... I still smile when I look at those cards. I am happy ati took the thrown away from them with the 9xxx series of cards and that was enough for me to start pulling for ATI. I don't think ATI's offering will be faster than what nvidia has to offer, not this round, but the next product "refresh" is gonna be the most exciting in a long time for people that just like to see pissing contests between large corporations.

I want the x1800 line to fail but not completely, just enough to make the next round very interesting to watch.

AMD bet the farm on athlon64 and has done well, I am hoping for that kinda thing from ati or even nvidia because in the end I am the one that wins.
 
to be honest, i couldn't really care less. I have already made my decision for the time being. If the x1800 or whatever is 10-20% faster, it will be hard to justify for me to grab. Sure people will have better cards but thats always the case, like I care what those people have. Plus, its good if ATI can offer some real competition to nvidia, force them to keep up the work, faster, more powerful.

You don't want the market to grow stagnant.

But ultimately, I'm sitting good for a while yet.
 
Well Im a ATI fan, Just about always used ATi cards (forgive me as I had a 5200 LOL).

But I mean, Its looked bad for ATi from the start. Nividia comes along and releases the 7800GTX bang next gen just like that. ATi lags behind.... crossfire delayed....R520 delayed.

Everyone wants a new computer for BF2, Everyone buys SLI chipset mobo 2x 7800GTXs. ATi still lagging.... We get news that the R520 is called the X1800 -_-.... I mean where i the thought in that? The name sucks :p

More people buy 7800GTs or GTX's. ATi still lags.... We get news its only got 16 pipelines. We get news its a 512bit bus and it has massive Core and Memory speeds. We all think its just a X850XT PE overclocked to the point of death... Thus needing a massive heat stink :p

Now....That all sounds bad news to me. And everyone WOULD count ATi dead. But I still have that tiny bit of hope ATi comes through for us.

I totally agree that it should be faster to drive the market forwards. We need something to totally pwn 7800 series. Thus giving us 8800GT, GTXs, and Ultras :D
 
i would like the new ATI cards to fail because i love my nforce 4 motherboards and iv'e already spent over a thousand dollars on nvidia cards in the last year... so i'm an nvidiot. and of course i want to say i have the fastest computer in town.

by the way i'm not serious. i'm drunk.
 
He should be banned, no questions asked. Doubt that will happen though. Perhaps if Kyle sees it... he has done it before. Usually doesnt put up with bigotry and name calling like that.
 
It would be nice if the X1800 was like 25% better then the 7800 line so I can punch my friend in the groin. He has to be the biggest Intel and nVidia !!!!!! yet when I ask what are so special about them and he tells me "well do you see ATi with one" completely avoiding the question. I'm somewhat ATi biased since I've had nothing but trouble with installing the ForceWare drivers and having to reinstall the OS. But then again this generation won't matter since I don't plan on upgrading my 9700Pro. But I feel that ATi has a better features and picture quality is superior to nVidia. I honestly don't care about pure speed and benchmarking. If it looks fantastic then its perfect.
 
I sure hope the X1800 is faster than the 7800 GTX so that cards keep getting faster. I brought a 7800 because ATI took so long with teh X1800, but still i dont want ATIs card to fail :).

That said, after owning this 7800 (my first nvidia card) i will almost certainly go back to ATI next time i upgrade next year. Nvidia made a good card, no doubt about that, however, i find nvidia drivers to be plain horrible. They are buggy, unstable and in some cases, there isnt any driver support at all. I used ATI cards when they had horrible driver support too (the 8500 series for example) but theres no doubt that compairing the drivers on my X800 against this 7800, that ATIs drivers are ALOT better than anything nvidia are offering right now. For example, using the 78.03 betas right now, if i run certain windowed 3D apps, my card does not switch to 3D clock speeds and stays at 2D clock speeds, resulting is very slow performance and in some cases, system lock ups, 3 days ago these drivers deleted all the game profiles by themself, forcing a driver reinstall and even after 3 months there are no offical VIVO drivers for the Geforce 7 series (something that i use...rather, want to use).
 
I hope it does well for the sake of competition. However even if it is faster I do not think it will be worth it to upgrade from my two 7800GTs as I can not tell the difference between 251 fps and 260 fps and do not want to go through the trouble of swithcing MB etc in order to get crossfire.
 
^^You would be a complete idiot to upgrade, even if it was faster, unless you are obscenely rich i suppose

Mister E said:
Only Nvidiots want this card to fail because they are brainwashed into thinking that they are the best and their hardware is the best and nothing will ever change that.
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ATI fan boys do the exact same thing...
 
R1ckCa1n said:
I don't want it to fail as I need a reason to pour gas on my 7800GTX and lite it on fire
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I wonder, why would such a massive ATi phanboy buy an NVIDIA product? I guess it's one of two reasons.....

1. So they can spend their whole day finding fault with it then complain incessantly on the forums about how much 'smoother' their X800XT is.

2. The classic tactic of pretending to own a card from an IHV you hate just so you can claim you're not biased or a phanboy.

Consider it a rhetorical question rather than an accusation. :)

OT, for all our sakes I want the X1800 to whup the 7800GTX bigtime. Good competition means lower prices and better products for us all.
 
coz said:
I wonder, why would such a massive ATi phanboy buy an NVIDIA product? I guess it's one of two reasons.....

1. So they can spend their whole day finding fault with it then complain incessantly on the forums about how much 'smoother' their X800XT is.

2. The classic tactic of pretending to own a card from an IHV you hate just so you can claim you're not biased or a phanboy.

Consider it a rhetorical question rather than an accusation. :)

OT, for all our sakes I want the X1800 to whup the 7800GTX bigtime. Good competition means lower prices and better products for us all.
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I bought it because I can AND ati is very late to the game. The 7800 will become like all other old cards, get put in my wifes computer. Granded the 7800 was an impulse purchase based on the reviews on day one. I blame PC Club for having it in stock on launch day! :(
 
R1ckCa1n said:
I bought it because I can AND ati is very late to the game. The 7800 will become like all other old cards, get put in my wifes computer. Granded the 7800 was an impulse purchase based on the reviews on day one. I blame PC Club for having it in stock on launch day! :(
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Hey, PC Club is awesome. Don't blame us for having an awesome card :(
 
I am looking forward to getting the X1800 IF it is faster than the 7800GTX significantly at 1600x1200x4aax16AF
MY x850XT can't play BF2 well at those settings online in 64 person servers, granted the game looks amazing at 1290x960 with 4x AA and 16x AF and is butter smooth, but i want 1600x1200 damnit.
The 7800GTX doesnt offer me enough performance gain to upgrade YET, an x1800XT or 7800 Ultra might.
 
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