• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Why BFG custom coolers "suck" ?

U

UltimateMan

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Messages
494
i have heard people saying these coolers perform poorly (most whom have reference cooled 6800GTs) however, i have yet to see any evidence to support this. In fact, most logic and reviews that I've seen (this site's BFG 6800 NU review) tend to contradict these claims. Anyone feel like a-chiming in on this debate?

I ask that you present your thoughts on this in one of two ways:

1) an OPINION
2) a fact, backing up your claims with evidence

my logic: apparent larger HS surface area (look up some pics), copper, 2 fans = better than reference coolers.

my evidence- [H]ardOCP's BFG 6800 NU review (no temps, but you get the idea)

Thanks!!!
 
UltimateMan said:
my logic: apparent larger HS surface area (look up some pics), copper, 2 fans = better than reference coolers.
Click to expand...

and I'll shoot down that theory by saying that the newer coolers do suck because they are a one piece cooler for both the GPU and the memory.

so all that heat thats being expelled from the GPU is getting directly transfered to the memory. and when I say "all that heat from the GPU" I do mean its alot of heat being directly transfered to the memory. they shouldve left well enough alone like the original ref design. at least by that, they had a seperate cooler for the GPU and a seperate heatsink for the memory.

oh, and did I also mention that the teeny-wheeny tiny fans on the newer coolers put out very little air compared to the Delta fan thats on the ref cooler?

and before you say, "well, what do you have to back up your findings?" - I'll say that I did have a BFG 6800 GT with the copper cooler and it idled and pegged out at almost 10C higher than the ref cooler thats on my PNY 6800 GT.
 
well thanks for the pleasant and friendly response :rolleyes:

and what temp does your PNY GT idle at now?
 
Generally people are getting a solid 10C higher temps with their new cooler then a reference design. This is just from everyday people using it. That cooler is actually the simple reason why im NOT buying BFG. Its funny, they would have had my money if they left well enough alone, now EVGA is getting it.
 
UltimateMan said:
well thanks for the pleasant and friendly response :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

anytime pal...

sorry for being so brupt but I generally get responses from people like: "well Ozzie, how do you know the BFG coolers run hotter? did you have one or you just talking out of your butt?"

well, I know what I know from personal experience and personal experience told me the newer coolers on the BFG cards suck compared to the ref designed ones.

and what temp does your PNY GT idle at now?
Click to expand...

I no longer have my PNY GT cuz I traded it in on an X800 Pro VIVO that I soft modded into an XT PE card.

but when I "did" have my PNY GT, it would idle at like 54C or so...
 
ozziegn said:
I no longer have my PNY GT cuz I traded it in on an X800 Pro VIVO that I soft modded into an XT PE card.

but when I "did" have my PNY GT, it would idle at like 54C or so...
Click to expand...

Ozziegn,

This is not a criticism nor am I asking you to justify your decision, I'm genuinely curious. What made you decide to take your 6800GT and trade it in for the X800 Pro? The only reason I ask is that from the reviews I have read so far the 6800GT seems to be the more "bang for your buck" card.
 
UltimateMan said:
i have heard people saying these coolers perform poorly (most whom have reference cooled 6800GTs) however, i have yet to see any evidence to support this. In fact, most logic and reviews that I've seen (this site's BFG 6800 NU review) tend to contradict these claims. Anyone feel like a-chiming in on this debate?

I ask that you present your thoughts on this in one of two ways:

1) an OPINION
2) a fact, backing up your claims with evidence

my logic: apparent larger HS surface area (look up some pics), copper, 2 fans = better than reference coolers.

my evidence- [H]ardOCP's BFG 6800 NU review (no temps, but you get the idea)

Thanks!!!
Click to expand...


See for the longest time crap coolers on video cards where MORE than enough ..and overclocked great.. now that cards are many times more powerful Nvidia and Ati could make much better cooling solutions but to cut costs they just use the standard coolers that will do a "Reference Job" meaning the bare min for cooling ..also it prevents us from buying them and overclocking them to the Special Card speeds "I.E 6800 Ultra , X800 XT"
But the 6800 GT and the x800 pro VIVO have proven that dispite the video card industry trying to stop people from buying the lower end cards and overclocking them to higher end speeds .. people found a way around it still though most of us aren't willing to risk ruining our cards with a faulty BIOS flash... mostly in a nut shell thats why current cooling is crap and i doubt that will change anytime soon.
 
saintrobyn said:
Ozziegn,

This is not a criticism nor am I asking you to justify your decision, I'm genuinely curious. What made you decide to take your 6800GT and trade it in for the X800 Pro? The only reason I ask is that from the reviews I have read so far the 6800GT seems to be the more "bang for your buck" card.
Click to expand...

VIVO's can by unlock4d into XT's and they beat Ultras in many cases.
 
BFG's cooler is not crap. People saying that have just fallen into the latest fad of trying to talk down BFG. Usually these people are trying to justify buying their PNY cards, which, don't carry a real lifetime warranty.

The BFG cards with the dual fan cooler, 5900 and 6800 series, OC perfectly stable just as high, and in most cases, higher, than other brands with reference coolers. As an example, my BFG 5900nu, at the same room temp, will OC 10 Mhz core and 22 Mhz memory faster than my brother-in-laws 5900nu which has the reference cooler. And that is while my BFG card is running 8-10 degrees warmer.
 
I have a BFG 6800 GT with the custom cooler and, better or worse, it works just fine for me. Running at 415 / 1.09, it idles in the mid 60s and tops out at 90.
 
the card in my sig idles at 55, which means that its running 10C lower than molgeras which has the new cooler

edit: i also have a load temp of around 80C


case and point.
 
saintrobyn said:
Ozziegn,

This is not a criticism nor am I asking you to justify your decision, I'm genuinely curious. What made you decide to take your 6800GT and trade it in for the X800 Pro? The only reason I ask is that from the reviews I have read so far the 6800GT seems to be the more "bang for your buck" card.
Click to expand...

well, the 6800 GT is a very good "bang for your buck" card.

but...

recent findings have shown that certain X800 Pro VIVO cards are actually physically XT PE cards in sheeps clothing (so to speak). some of these cards are identical in hardware-wise as the XT PE cards. they just have lower clock speeds and they have 12 pipelines instead of 16.

but those two things are easily fixed with a simple BIOS flash and if the 4 extra pipelines arent damaged, then you can now have an X800 XT PE card for $399.

now has that for an incredible "bang for your buck" card?

and I dont care what ANYONE says, a fully functioning X800 XT PE card will whip the stank out of a 6800 GT any day of the week. :p
 
Cali3350 said:
VIVO's can by unlock4d into XT's and they beat Ultras in many cases.
Click to expand...

yup, I'm one of those people who's gotten lucky and found an X800 Pro VIVO card that soft modded to an XT PE card perfectly.

the card runs at 520/560 with 16 pipelines perfectly. ;)
 
Badger_sly said:
BFG's cooler is not crap. People saying that have just fallen into the latest fad of trying to talk down BFG. Usually these people are trying to justify buying their PNY cards, which, don't carry a real lifetime warranty.
Click to expand...

yeah whatever....

I had both cards and they were both the same price.

guess which one I ditched and guess why I ditched it. :p

oh and as for the precious "BFG Lifetime Warranty" stuff.

thats all marketing hog-wash. BFG just uses that as bragging rights that their products are better than other cards. well, that BS doesnt mean a hill of beans to me. PNY has a good warranty program just like BFG. sure, it isnt as hand polished as BFG's ooh-la-la "Lifetime Warranty" stuff but again, that doesnt mean stank to me. I'm not gonna have the same video card I have now 3 years from now much less 10 years from now. so what do I care if that card will be warranteed 10 years from now?

IMO, all of these cards are just as good as the others. you just need to find a card that works to your likings and dont worry about what anyone else has to say.
 
Working for a large retailer not to be named, I install a lot of these cards. The first series of bfg 6800 gt's were about 10c cooler on load and 5c idle cooler than the ones that are coming out now. Both perform well and can cool the cards up to ultra speeds, but the new design does look swanker which appeals to the standard user more than to us the [H]ard user.
 
ozziegn said:
yeah whatever....

I had both cards and they were both the same price.

guess which one I ditched and guess why I ditched it. :p

oh and as for the precious "BFG Lifetime Warranty" stuff.

thats all marketing hog-wash. BFG just uses that as bragging rights that their products are better than other cards. well, that BS doesnt mean a hill of beans to me. PNY has a good warranty program just like BFG. sure, it isnt as hand polished as BFG's ooh-la-la "Lifetime Warranty" stuff but again, that doesnt mean stank to me. I'm not gonna have the same video card I have now 3 years from now much less 10 years from now. so what do I care if that card will be warranteed 10 years from now?

IMO, all of these cards are just as good as the others. you just need to find a card that works to your likings and dont worry about what anyone else has to say.
Click to expand...

If you're swapping cards 3 times a year, then no, the warranty probably doesn't mean a whole lot. You're in the minority though.
 
ozziegn said:
well, the 6800 GT is a very good "bang for your buck" card.

but...

recent findings have shown that certain X800 Pro VIVO cards are actually physically XT PE cards in sheeps clothing (so to speak). some of these cards are identical in hardware-wise as the XT PE cards. they just have lower clock speeds and they have 12 pipelines instead of 16.

but those two things are easily fixed with a simple BIOS flash and if the 4 extra pipelines arent damaged, then you can now have an X800 XT PE card for $399.

now has that for an incredible "bang for your buck" card?

and I dont care what ANYONE says, a fully functioning X800 XT PE card will whip the stank out of a 6800 GT any day of the week. :p
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Now which X800 Pro brand did you choose? I only had access to the ATI X800 Pro and the PNY 6800GT at the computer store I work at. I've read that you really don't want to use an built by ATI card if you intend to hack it into an XT version so I went with the 6800GT.

Finally, my 6800GT is running at near 6800 Ultra Speeds without a bios flash. I just had to adjust two simple sliders. For ease of modding, my 6800GT beats your x800 Pro VIVO. :D
 
ozziegn said:
and I'll shoot down that theory by saying that the newer coolers do suck because they are a one piece cooler for both the GPU and the memory.

so all that heat thats being expelled from the GPU is getting directly transfered to the memory. and when I say "all that heat from the GPU" I do mean its alot of heat being directly transfered to the memory. they shouldve left well enough alone like the original ref design. at least by that, they had a seperate cooler for the GPU and a seperate heatsink for the memory.

oh, and did I also mention that the teeny-wheeny tiny fans on the newer coolers put out very little air compared to the Delta fan thats on the ref cooler?

and before you say, "well, what do you have to back up your findings?" - I'll say that I did have a BFG 6800 GT with the copper cooler and it idled and pegged out at almost 10C higher than the ref cooler thats on my PNY 6800 GT.
Click to expand...


That really doesn't back up your findings though. No GPU puts out the exact same amount of heat. Some run hotter, some run cooler, and it's completely luck of the draw. Now if you did some real testing such as putting the BFG cooler on the PNY card and came to the same conclusion, then there would be something to that. Until someone does just that though, all the arguements about the BFG cooler running hotter are just speculation.


ozziegn said:
anytime pal...

sorry for being so brupt but I generally get responses from people like: "well Ozzie, how do you know the BFG coolers run hotter? did you have one or you just talking out of your butt?"

well, I know what I know from personal experience and personal experience told me the newer coolers on the BFG cards suck compared to the ref designed ones.
Click to expand...

Personal experiences with two cards with different GPU's and coolers. Like I said, GPU's can vary quite a bit in the heat they produce.

A good example is me and someone I know both have Mobile Athlon XP 2500+'s overclocked to 2.5GHz @ 1.75v. Now both of us are using the exact same heatsink and fan combo (SP-97 with a Panaflo), and he gets temps that are roughly 5 degree's higher than mine. Why is that? Because his CPU just runs hotter due to the variation in silicon. That variation is also why some GPU's overclock a lot better than others. If there are two things that constantly vary between GPU's, it's heat and maximum clock speed.

So the bottom line is before you go out of your way to knock a cooling solution one way or another, do some serious testing where you actually take ONE video card and put two different cooling solutions on it. This is truely the only way these kind of claims can be tested and validated. Anything less is FUD.
 
Thanks for the responses guys. Obviously there are those whom feel VERY strongly about this.

See, my BFG 6800GT OC w/ custom cooler idles at similar temps to those with PNYs. For example it is idling at...58 C right now. Even using that natural light demo the thing doesn't hit 80 for over a half hour. I understand that since no one that i know of has done some real testing between the two cooler designs on the same reference board that we are all simply drawing from our own experiences here.

My card OCs to Ultra specs, and only a little higher (405/1.14) but that may not be due to the cooler at all, as we all know how the luck of the draw goes. There just seems to be alot of people on one or the other side of the fence. I am a few years from my masters degree in physics, and i am naturally an experimentalist, so i would just like to see some conrete results. Unfortunatley i don't have that kinda budget. I do appreciate your input, as it gives some data/info in shedding some light onto this subject.
 
My BFG Ultra OC with the reference cooler (single blower, multi-pieces HS type) Idles at 55*C and loads at around 73*C...

dunno if that helps anyone.
 
my 6800GT OC with the reference cooler idles around 63c and i've seen it hit 96c when i ran rthdribl overnight. i've got it overclocked to 435/1170 and it was pretty warm in my apartment when i hit 96c.

Oz, i had originally planned on buying a X800 Pro VIVO, but newegg screwed up and sent me a non VIVO card. i eventually bought a 6800GT at Frys and i've been happy with it, although i kinda wish i could have played around with a X800 Pro VIVO too.
 
ozziegn said:
and I'll shoot down that theory by saying that the newer coolers do suck because they are a one piece cooler for both the GPU and the memory.

so all that heat thats being expelled from the GPU is getting directly transfered to the memory. and when I say "all that heat from the GPU" I do mean its alot of heat being directly transfered to the memory. they shouldve left well enough alone like the original ref design. at least by that, they had a seperate cooler for the GPU and a seperate heatsink for the memory.

oh, and did I also mention that the teeny-wheeny tiny fans on the newer coolers put out very little air compared to the Delta fan thats on the ref cooler?

and before you say, "well, what do you have to back up your findings?" - I'll say that I did have a BFG 6800 GT with the copper cooler and it idled and pegged out at almost 10C higher than the ref cooler thats on my PNY 6800 GT.
Click to expand...

I agree with ya 100% here no question about that.

Its basic science, if you have a solid piece of metal touching the gpu and then its touching the memory, YOU are GOING TO HAVE HEAT TRANSFER TO THE MEMORY, simple as thet! I cant understand why the hell they would do that. I hope people understand that you need seperate cooling for the mem and seperate cooling for te gpu.
 
BattleMaster said:
So the bottom line is before you go out of your way to knock a cooling solution one way or another, do some serious testing where you actually take ONE video card and put two different cooling solutions on it. This is truely the only way these kind of claims can be tested and validated. Anything less is FUD.
Click to expand...

now why would I want to do that?

several people have asked me my opinion and I've stated it several times now about the BFG GT with the newer cooler.

again, I had one and it ran considerably hotter than my PNY GT did.

period. end of story. thats that.... I'm not going to get drilled for information about something that doesnt mean two sh*ts to me cuz like I said, I had the BFG GT and I ditched it.
 
Taurus said:
I hope people understand that you need seperate cooling for the mem and seperate cooling for te gpu.
Click to expand...

yup.

and yet there are still those hard-headed people out there that will swear up, down and all around that the newer BFG coolers are all that and a can of Pringles.

whatever... if they dont mind have a purdy cooler with purdy LED lights on the fans that most often tends to run hotter than the previous designed cooler then so be it.

after all, everyone has their own right to own whatever they want and as long as you feel that you've gotten your money's worth then by all means, more power to ya. :)
 
saintrobyn said:
I've read that you really don't want to use an built by ATI card if you intend to hack it into an XT version so I went with the 6800GT.
Click to expand...

why's that?

For ease of modding, my 6800GT beats your x800 Pro VIVO. :D
Click to expand...

heh, you'll certainly get no arguement(s) from me there.

its a PITA for someone like myself to do that whole BIOS / floppy disk thingy considering my Shuttle SFF doesnt have a FDD so I have to take the cover on/off everytime I need to use a FDD.

:(
 
ozziegn said:
yeah whatever....

I had both cards and they were both the same price.

guess which one I ditched and guess why I ditched it. :p

oh and as for the precious "BFG Lifetime Warranty" stuff.

thats all marketing hog-wash. BFG just uses that as bragging rights that their products are better than other cards. well, that BS doesnt mean a hill of beans to me. PNY has a good warranty program just like BFG. sure, it isnt as hand polished as BFG's ooh-la-la "Lifetime Warranty" stuff but again, that doesnt mean stank to me. I'm not gonna have the same video card I have now 3 years from now much less 10 years from now. so what do I care if that card will be warranteed 10 years from now?

IMO, all of these cards are just as good as the others. you just need to find a card that works to your likings and dont worry about what anyone else has to say.
Click to expand...
How are things in the trailer park?
 
I'm in complete agreement with ozzieng. I've also had a PNY and BFG (w/custom HSF). Not only did BFG idle at higher temperature, but its load temperatrue was hitting 90s easily.
Meanwhile, PNY idled lower and load temperature while playing D3 was around 73C.
And this was BFG running at 400/1000, and PNY was running at 410/1100.@1.4V GPU.
By the way, I haven't heard any PNY owner not being able to overclock beyond the ultra setting, but I've heard MANY BFG (w/custom HSF) could not overclock to the ultra.
 
The thing is, both the reference design and the stock BFG design are inadequate solutions for the 6800GT's. I'd buy the nvSilencer either way.
 
ozziegn said:
[...] and I dont care what ANYONE says, a fully functioning X800 XT PE card will whip the stank out of a 6800 GT any day of the week. :p
Click to expand...

Not in Linux w/XFree86 4.3 it won't... my GeForce 2 GTS could do better. :D
 
Darth_Fluffy said:
The thing is, both the reference design and the stock BFG design are inadequate solutions for the 6800GT's. I'd buy the nvSilencer either way.
Click to expand...

is that from an overclocking point of view?

These cards and cooling solutions are not made for Ultra speeds.
 
Darth_Fluffy said:
How are things in the trailer park?
Click to expand...

gee, whats the matter Skippy?

you wouldnt happy to own one of those bad-@ss, mama-jama BFG cards and maybe have gotten your feelings hurt by me not giving it a two thumbs up, ehh? :rolleyes:

(boy, you just gotta love the tons of people on computer tech hardware forums who get offended sooooo easily when someone says something negative about a piece of computer hard that they may own...)
 
Taurus said:
I agree with ya 100% here no question about that.

Its basic science, if you have a solid piece of metal touching the gpu and then its touching the memory, YOU are GOING TO HAVE HEAT TRANSFER TO THE MEMORY, simple as thet! I cant understand why the hell they would do that. I hope people understand that you need seperate cooling for the mem and seperate cooling for te gpu.
Click to expand...

That actually isn't tue and i will explain but first observe: the NV5 Silencer using the same HS for core and memory?

NV4Back.jpg


apparently you can be an effective cooler with this problem.

and basic science it may not be. If you really go into the details (which i can only skim really) you can then begin to talk about:

how the copper heatsink will act to distribute the heat evenly throughout the entirety of the metal's mass. But no matter what, the copper will not be AS hot as the GPU. In fact, the copper itself, will not be as hot as the Ram either. Therefore, it would still under those circumstances be drawing heat AWAY from the ram.

If not, then the ram WOULD burn out, rather quickly. Because of the thermal properties of the copper as opposed to the ram, it will always be cooler than the memory (with some fans in the area.)

so it wouldn't transfer heat to the ram after all.

what WOULD happen, since the heatsink touches both the GPU and RAM is that since the copper touching the ram is also being heated by the GPU, the copper is naturally warmer than copper that is, say, not touching the GPU. Therefore, it does not draw heat away from the memory AS QUICKLY as it would otherwise.

and before you debunk the "copper heatsink is cooler than the ram" theory, think about this. If it weren't, the ram would fry, because you would not only be NOT coolling it, you would be heating up an already hot piece of memory. the copper is cooler than the ram.

which method is MORE EFFECTIVE at cooling the ram and GPU? well, all other factors being equal, the two separate pieces of copper cooling the ram and GPU individually.

but no heat is being transfered TO the ram by the heatsink.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top