Why Are PCs Sales Growing While Mac Sales Are Crashing?

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While the PC market is experiencing a growth of up to 2.7 percent (as suggested by IDC), the Mac has had its worst quarter in seven years: shipments have declined by 13 percent, a level not seen since Q3 2010. Why is that? ZDNet echoes the idea that PCs are merely enjoying the limelight because of enterprises upgrading their hardware for Windows 10, but they also admit that Apple has allowed the Mac lineup to become stagnant.

There was even a hint during Apple's Q3 2018 earnings call by CFO Luca Maestri that the late appearance of the MacBook Pro refresh didn't help. It's hard to justify spending thousands of dollars on systems that are more than a year old. And yet Apple tries to do just that. Macs have also been caught up in a fair bit of negative press lately when it comes to reliability, which doesn't help Apple when it comes to selling computers priced in the thousands of dollars.
 
I think the ZDNet statement is essentially correct. We're in the middle of enterprise upgrade cycle trying to get ahead of the EOL of Windows 7 and Apple just hasn't put much effort into Macs. And then there are PC consumer boom markets currently in gaming and 2 in 1 devices.
 
Apple has never had more than 10% market share in computers. Usually less. Although Macs are quite good and widely used in certain niche areas, most people have no interest in Macs because:

High price, very poor price vs performance ratio
High repair cost, DIY repairs are much more difficult
Severely limited choices for hardware and software
 
Because macs are best at what they do best, but PCs do well at more things overall. If you just want to browse the web, people have phones for that. If you want to game AND edit video AND record music AND do business tasks AND edit photos, a PC is the only way to do it all. Price is a factor too.
 
Apple dropped the ball and for some reason thought they could shift every one to tablets, i guess its that courage mantra .
still not sure if they have awoken and figured out that there are people who require actual desktop/workstations to actually ummm get real work done.
not to mention some of the knuckle headed forced upgrades from iphoto, photos, to whatever they decide to do with your photos come next os blah upgrade.

These companies have lost the whole concept of what computers are and seem to be focusing on delivering then next best VCR (yeah video cassette recorder)

so yeah the pc market is on a upswing as people are slowly realizing that the desktop/workstation is the tool that people need to get things done . (unless its bluray playback)

all the rest are mere toys.
 
Dick Johnson said:
Apple has never had more than 10% market share in computers. Usually less. Although Macs are quite good and widely used in certain niche areas, most people have no interest in Macs because:

High price, very poor price vs performance ratio
High repair cost, DIY repairs are much more difficult
Severely limited choices for hardware and software
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And limited upgradability. (i.e. soldered in ram)
 
The only thing keeping macs alive is the hardcore audio holdouts and iOS developers who have no other choice. And overpaid silicon Valley idiots with gargantuan expense accounts.

Apple is swallowing up their own image editors market with the iPad pro, and they killed the video editors with final cut x and they abandoned Mac pro.

They've been raising prices for the Mac book pro the last two years to cover up the falling sales. I wouldn't be surprised if we go back to the bad old days of Pepsi Cola CEO John Sculley, where they priced the things twice as high as equivalent PCs EVEN IN THE FACE OF FALLING SALES.
 
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Another issue is fashion. Apple has done a great job of making their electronics fashionable, not just things you use. That is part of the reason they can make so much money: In fashion, unlike consumer electronics, a high price can be a good thing. However there's a downside and that is that fashion is fickle. Something that is fashionable now is not necessarily going to be fashionable in 5 years.

It seems to me (working at a university) that Macs are less fashionable these days. They don't carry the status symbol they used to. As a result people are comparing them more in things like price and features, where they are not so attractive, and are choosing to purchase other things. Combine that with the fact that Apple has not been focusing much on the Mac, instead focusing on the iDevices (no surprise, that's where they make the most money) and there is not as big a market as there used to be.
 
Sycraft said:
Another issue is fashion. Apple has done a great job of making their electronics fashionable, not just things you use. That is part of the reason they can make so much money: In fashion, unlike consumer electronics, a high price can be a good thing. However there's a downside and that is that fashion is fickle. Something that is fashionable now is not necessarily going to be fashionable in 5 years.

It seems to me (working at a university) that Macs are less fashionable these days. They don't carry the status symbol they used to. As a result people are comparing them more in things like price and features, where they are not so attractive, and are choosing to purchase other things. Combine that with the fact that Apple has not been focusing much on the Mac, instead focusing on the iDevices (no surprise, that's where they make the most money) and there is not as big a market as there used to be.
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This. On top of that they have abandon through pro market which was their biggest market for years. Normal consumers are having a hard time eating the cost of a 3k macbook pro.
 
Cost is definitely a factor also, especially here in the UK. I'm on a 4.5 year old MacBook Pro 13" that cost me £1250 at the time - i5 2.3GHz, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD so it was decent enough. At the time I wanted a high res screen - this MBP is 2560x1600 and there were no decent high-res PC laptops around at that time so the MBP was actually quite good value for money, all things considered.

However now I need to spend £1750 to get a new 13" MBP i5 (admittedly they're now quad cores rather than the dual from previous models) with the same 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD.

So basically, in 4 and a half years, I still need to spend an extra £500 if I want to upgrade to another MBP and for that £500 all I gain is two extra cores. Oh and the touch bar. It's not good enough, not when you can get better spec PC laptops, except for the screen res, for almost half the price.
 
Adrian Kingsley Hughes-ZDNET said:
It's a popular and well-loved platform, and it's driving sales and upgrades in a big way. All the major OEMs, as well as component makers, I've spoken to over the past year or give credit to Microsoft and the work it has done with Windows 10 for helping to keep the market buoyant.
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This quote confuses me, because I've read on these boards that everyone hates Windows 10. Should I trust OEMs and component manufacturers or the usual suspects on [H].


On a more serious note, I think Apple needs to get their shit together on updating Macs. CPUs need to be current and they need to update their various lines when new CPUs come out. I know I considered trying a mac and price is certainly an issue, but I'd consider trying one anyway, if they were using current hardware, but every time they're 1 or 2 generations behind on CPUs (I'll worry about other components if they ever manage to be current).
 
I use a Mac for my job. I need it for Xcode. I also run Parallels on it for Windows access - honestly, it works great and I've been doing this for years. This isn't my Macbook Pro. It belongs to the company I work for.
As a consumer, if I wanted a Mac at home, here are a list of things holding me back:
-Price.
-Can't upgrade after you buy it. I think this is stupid. Apple wants/expects you to use the system for a few years, and buy another one. The fact that I still have a Macbook from 2008 running must be horrid to them. (It's fine for ssh access to my Linux servers.)
-Lack of a truly powerful device. My choice now would be an i9 laptop with questionable thermals. GPU? Tsk. The Pro model is a garbage can shaped device with obsolete hardware.
If Apple wanted to grow their market share, I believe they could but it runs against their business model. If I ever got Tim Cook's job (haha, never would this happen) - here is what I'd do:
1. Make a lower cost Mac Mini - start it at $499. SSD and RAM can be replaced by the end consumer. (I'd also bring up the specs to current standards so it doesn't have the performance of a eunuch at a whore house)
2. Currently, there are too many Mac laptops. Get down to two base models: Macbook and Macbook Pro. I'd make them thicker and allow users to upgrade ram, replace batteries, and storage system. I'd also put in a real keyboard.
3. I'd introduce a new model - the BAMF. Maybe I'd partner with AMD to have Threadripper's in it. Lots of user upgradeable ram. Storage system upgrades. Your choice of AMD of Nvidia GPUs. Go back to their old Mac Pro aluminum cases (at least the look).
My first meeting with the board:
-While Mac ownership has increased, the profit margin has been reduced.
-Users will be able to use the devices longer. WTF are you thinking?
-Mac users don't believe in upgrading or keeping a system alive. They buy AppleCare. What is the Genius Bar supposed to do?
-Will this cut into our iPhone profit margin?
-Pretty sure they'd have me executed in a firing squad.
 
steakman1971 said:
I use a Mac for my job. I need it for Xcode. I also run Parallels on it for Windows access - honestly, it works great and I've been doing this for years. This isn't my Macbook Pro. It belongs to the company I work for.
As a consumer, if I wanted a Mac at home, here are a list of things holding me back:
-Price.
-Can't upgrade after you buy it. I think this is stupid. Apple wants/expects you to use the system for a few years, and buy another one. The fact that I still have a Macbook from 2008 running must be horrid to them. (It's fine for ssh access to my Linux servers.)
-Lack of a truly powerful device. My choice now would be an i9 laptop with questionable thermals. GPU? Tsk. The Pro model is a garbage can shaped device with obsolete hardware.
If Apple wanted to grow their market share, I believe they could but it runs against their business model. If I ever got Tim Cook's job (haha, never would this happen) - here is what I'd do:
1. Make a lower cost Mac Mini - start it at $499. SSD and RAM can be replaced by the end consumer. (I'd also bring up the specs to current standards so it doesn't have the performance of a eunuch at a whore house)
2. Currently, there are too many Mac laptops. Get down to two base models: Macbook and Macbook Pro. I'd make them thicker and allow users to upgrade ram, replace batteries, and storage system. I'd also put in a real keyboard.
3. I'd introduce a new model - the BAMF. Maybe I'd partner with AMD to have Threadripper's in it. Lots of user upgradeable ram. Storage system upgrades. Your choice of AMD of Nvidia GPUs. Go back to their old Mac Pro aluminum cases (at least the look).
My first meeting with the board:
-While Mac ownership has increased, the profit margin has been reduced.
-Users will be able to use the devices longer. WTF are you thinking?
-Mac users don't believe in upgrading or keeping a system alive. They buy AppleCare. What is the Genius Bar supposed to do?
-Will this cut into our iPhone profit margin?
-Pretty sure they'd have me executed in a firing squad.
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You would get fired by the board so fast. Not just from Apple but pretty much every tech company lol. You think Apple would be worth a trillion dollars right now if they followed your philosophy?
 
Thats easy one to answer. Mac users want to be able to upgrade and change parts. All the newer Macbook pros are all one component. The hard drive is solderd on the main board. The memory is too. The main reason Mac ppl are switching is because they miss the old Apple where the Mac's had options for upgrades. Take the Newer Mac Pro's I have herd so many complaints from mac users wanting the Old Desktop version of the Mac Pro back.

Whats worse about apple these days is you can build a Hackentosh that 10 times faster then any macbook pro or Mac pro for about half the price of a new one sold by apple.

Seriously Apple should just take a page from Microsoft and sell ther OS for PC's they would make a shit ton of Money doing that.
 
I don't mind using my macbook pro at work in a primarily mac shop, but my thinkpad E480 with minor upgrades is a significantly better computer for significantly less money. There's no way I'd spend my own money on a mac.
 
Wolf_Tech said:
Seriously Apple should just take a page from Microsoft and sell ther OS for PC's they would make a shit ton of Money doing that.
Click to expand...

Probably not these days. The reason is, all the nerd rage on forums aside, Windows is "good enough". You can argue if OS-X is better or not (I'd argue it is not) but it doesn't really matter. The world is full of "good enough" solutions. What I mean is something gets to the point where it does what needs to be done well enough, and then becomes the established standard. For something else to dislodge that, it has to be much better in some way. People won't switch just out of inertia. That aside, MacOS has an uphill battle to fight in terms of compatibility. Basically everything runs on Windows and only some of those things run on OS-X. That's enough to make it a tough sell to many.

There was a time when Apple could, and should, have gone to "OS on everyone's hardware" route and indeed they were looking at it, but that time is passed. Dislodging Windows would take something more than what OS-X offers.
 
heatlesssun said:
I think the ZDNet statement is essentially correct. We're in the middle of enterprise upgrade cycle trying to get ahead of the EOL of Windows 7 and Apple just hasn't put much effort into Macs. And then there are PC consumer boom markets currently in gaming and 2 in 1 devices.
Click to expand...

PCs were not dying, just lasting longer and being used less. Yeah kids these days are shifting more to phones, but when work is done and serious media consumption is done it is done on a PC. A movie sucks on 6" screen, ditto for games. People are gradually updating as their 7+ year old PCs are breaking or getting a bit slow. Cheap SSDs in $700 or lower laptops will pick up consumer sales.

Apple is well, making some bone headed decisions and not innovating in ways that take off. I also think they're for more casual users in general (yes many use Apple for productivity). So they're more likely to use their iPhones / iPads at a higher rate I'd assume, especially due to the integration of iOS.

Nothing to see here, just common sense.
 
nutzo said:
And limited upgradability. (i.e. soldered in ram)
Click to expand...

Soldered in ram, soldered in ssd's, soldered in cpu's (cpu soldering is common in laptops though) riveted in keyboards. Apple are doing what they did in the 80's and 90's, making their machines disposable pieces of shit that the end user can't upgrade. They're just form over function, they shoehorn in an i9 that can hit 100c and don't make any improvements to the cooling for a much hotter cpu.
 
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very much as others have stated as well as the article with regards to recent reliability issues and the fact that macs are a nightmare to repair or upgrade. the PC platform has also become easier to build or upgrade. anyone else remember trying to select the right video card back in the day? or how about trying to make sure that you weren't going to get some bizarre incompatibility issue? i still remember coming up with a very odd one...built a new athlon xp system many moons ago, palimino i think? either way, got a nice new MSI board with the brand new VIA KT266A chipset. i had constant lock ups...tuns out it didn't like my sound blaster live card. there was a slight mismatch between the timings of the card and the mainboard. what a beast that was to resolve. ultimately i found an obscure 3rd party driver that reset the timings on windows boot. things like this are pretty unheard of these days.

on the mac side, they became popular many years ago when their cpu architecture was way ahead of the game. they made their money on graphic design and video editing mostly because they really were much better at it. toss in a great OS with a GUI that was also ahead of its time and you had a real winner. now? those days are gone. there is no performance gains to be had from mac vs pc for those tasks anymore. many of these professionals are switching to PC platform because its far cheaper for their company to upgrade and buy new systems. mac has lost its edge.

when you think about it, what are you really paying extra for? its not the hardware thats for sure. a pretty design and a different OS that is insanely restrictive on what it can run? no thanks.
 
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Make the Mac upgradeable again and it can do well. 2012 was the last year they refreshed the fully upgradeable Macbook Pro.
 
Because maybe the people who bought home Macs didn't need a computer? That's why they never bought a computer.

A tablet or phone can handle all the stuff a Mac does just fine.
 
I am going to diverge from many people and I am going to strait up call it PC gaming is booming and it driving some of this growth. You cannot believe the number of people who play lots of games like Overwatch, fortnite, pubg, that are realizing they cant go pro if they don't play on PC. Same with CSGO and the crates and gambling. There is just so much you can do on a PC that you cant do on a console and for the first time we are seeing the average console player wake up to this. Go over to reddit and browse the forums and see how many people are asking questions that tell you they are getting into PC gaming for the first time from a console background. Then go into a mass market store like best buy and see how massive the PC gaming section is getting. Just 5 - 10 years ago best buy and target and these mass market stores were literally collapsing all of their PC gaming stuff into the back of a tiny shelf no one could find. The games were gone because they saw sales decrease cause they didn't understand steam. But now even a soccer mom can go into target and buy shampoo, a $100 steam card and a razer mechanical keyboard.

But hey just like the idiots analyst always do they have no clue this is going on. Back then they kept talking about the death of the PC, what was the death of the PC? What it was, was a bunch of companies trying to force disposable laptops and poorly configured desktops down the throats of consumers. The answer was many gamers, were forced to go look for niche players, like ibuypower, etc.... Or to just strait up learn to build their own computers cause it was so hard to find decent off the shelf stuff. At the same time steam was taking over everything but it was a private company so hurr durr best buy CEO doesn't even realize whats going on. It was a fringe underground revolution.

And here they are again trying to talk about macs. Like macs are the reason everything in life happens. Well its no wonder you analyst make false predictions all the time. PC gaming is exploding, Esports is exploding, its getting unreal. The analyst rarely are talking about this aspect and how powerful this consumer base is. These are the young people that tell their parents what to buy, they tell them no mom you don't need a new computer cause intel hasn't done anything in 10 years.

I honestly think we are entering one of the greatest times in PC gaming. There are so many great things happening.
 
Chris_B said:
Soldered in ram, soldered in ssd's, soldered in cpu's (cpu soldering is common in laptops though) riveted in keyboards. Apple are doing what they did in the 80's and 90's, making their machines disposable pieces of shit that the end user can't upgrade. They're just form over function, they shoehorn in an i9 that can hit 100c and don't make any improvements to the cooling for a much hotter cpu.
Click to expand...

I think the technical term for doing that is called "built-in obsolescence"

herein lies the core of the problem ... people are willing to pay companies in order to advertise for them. If you ever paid for a T-shirt that had a company logo across the chest or on a ball cap then congrats ... you paid a company to advertise for them and they laughed all the way to the bank at the unbelievable stupidity of the human race (as a whole). Eventually, when it did not stop they began to realize they could sell garbage at inflated prices because the same stupid people that paid them to advertise for them will also buy the garbage at inflated prices ... and they were right
 
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Apple is a lot like Valve. They've pivoted their business model to something that's far more profitable, and their original business, i.e. what put them on that map, is practically name only. Can this come back to hurt them in the coming years as their competition steals their userbase? Yes. But most people under look at the current quarter's profits.
 
I think this started when Apple suddenly declared they were not making OSX server machines anymore awhile back. At the start of 2018 they anounced Its server software package would be kneecaped. They were making some small business inroads then they gave all their business customers the middle finger. The entry Mac Mini still has hardware from 2013 in it. They still don’t have a touch screen on the MacBook. Eventually even Apple fans begin to notice something is rotting. I have a Mac Pro from 2009. I have had no legitimate upgrade Path. I have instead put SSD’s, the Top CPU and 48gb of ram and a Vega Frontier 16gb in it. But in the end its still early gen I7 (Xeon). The trashcan was no upgrade, as time has already proven as I am already outperforming it as its upgrade paths are even more limited. Apple doesn’t want me as a customer. I have noticed.
 
Vader1975 said:
I have a Mac Pro from 2009. I have had no legitimate upgrade Path.
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Apple thinks the iPad Pro is your upgrade path.

Guess most customers don't consider that a proper upgrade.

Besides, why bother with a mac. There are plenty of pc laptops that are similar in size and weight to the mac books.
 
Apple knows that the Mac is not their future: it's iOS devices.
But they also know how to milk the existing base of Mac users.
 
Another reason that PC sales slowed down and are now increasing again is that SSD's extended the shelf-life of a LOT of computers over the last few years, and we are only just now getting past the original impact of this. When people found out they could just replace their HDD with an SSD and install a free copy of Windows 10 to make their computer way faster, they did so and kept that PC they would have replaced entirely in the past, for another 2-3 years.
 
nutzo said:
Apple thinks the iPad Pro is your upgrade path.

Guess most customers don't consider that a proper upgrade.

Besides, why bother with a mac. There are plenty of pc laptops that are similar in size and weight to the mac books.
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A source if immense frustration for me; apple gets imitated right down to the crappy keyboards and dongles for connectivity. I wouldn't mind so much if some manufacturers did that for some of their laptops, but it's all of them doing it to nearly their entire line ups.
 
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