Why are Nvidia overclocking tools so bad?

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Spare-Flair

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I've been using Rivatuner and it's ridiculous how clumsily designed the gui is. After using ATi Tray Tools for so long, I'm saddened to find how difficult it is to create profiles and that Rivatuner doesn't have any options for 3D detection (and auto overclocking based on 3D detection) and that it doesn't have proper fan profiles - as in variable fan speeds dependant on temperature that can easily bet set from one window with sliders. It doesn't even have overclocking stability tests like a 3D window to check for artifacts. What's the point of even minimizing it to the tray, there are no pop-up options you can use from the tray icon.

The tray icon doesn't do anything whereas other apps like ATi Tray Tools which basically has all the graphics/display options for you at a mere pop-up in addition to all 3D settings like AA, AS, etc. and color, resolution, overclocking etc. In addition, Rivaturner doesn't even have an ingame gui for showing temps, clock speeds, and most importantly FPS. I have to run about 5 different programs (like FRAPs and Ntune and the Nvidia control panel in addition to ATi Tool and Rivatuner for shaders) since I switched to an 8800GT whereas before, all that was taken care of with 1 tool that simply went to the tray and I could click on to get all my options right away.

I think a lot of the complaints about the fan speed and noise of the 8800GT could be fixed if there could be a proper fan control system. It boggles my mind how you are stuck with something like Rivatuner and are relegated to multistep processes in setting up profiles that aren't even fully automatic. Before I used to just run my fan at 18% in Windows and have it automatically ramp up dependant on temperature quite easily. When I ran games, I would just start them and the 3D detection would automatically overclock my system for me and then even display those clocks, temps, and my FPS inside the game.

Am I doing something wrong here? Am I missing out an some major universal Nvidia tool that can take care of all these functions like ATi Tray Tools? I can't believe Nvidia guys have been living this long with such poor apps even when Nvidia cards are significantly more popular. Those of you who have used ATi Tray Tools know what I mean when it truely is the best app I have ever seen for replacing all the display control panel functions of the manufacturer in addition to providing all the simply accessible yet advanced functions of a proper overclocking tool, a 3D api settings manager, and even in-game gui for clocks, temps, and FPS. Is there some program out there I am missing that does the same for Nvidia cards???
 
I completely agree with you. I spent quite a bit of time setting up Riva Tuner to control fan speeds at set temperature points. After all my configuration, it didn't work anyways. After lots of research around the internet, I come to find out that the fan speed on my card does not adjust with Rivatuner because the bios for my card must be incompatible.

I don't even dare post on the Rivatuner forum because the person who designed Rivatuner jumps all over anyone for asking. After various PM's to people, I gave up because no one has a solution.

I miss the simplicity and perfect functionality of ATItool with my old X850XT card. It was the perfect interface for fan control and overclocking. Nvidia is so popular, why is there not an equivalent?
 
Go back to ATI then LOL :p
as said they are both 3rd party apps...not made by nVidia or ATI.

Rivatuner has also worked just fine for me on my 6800 and 7900GS. You just have to realize what you can do on your card with it and not try and fool around with all the options. For example, a lot of the fan controls do not work with the 7900GS...so I leave them alone and on the 6800 you can pipe unlock it to have the same number of pipes as the 6800GT, but you can not do this on all cards even though the pipe unlock area is still visable and editable.
 
Grentz said:
Go back to ATI then LOL :p
as said they are both 3rd party apps...not made by nVidia or ATI.

Rivatuner has also worked just fine for me on my 6800 and 7900GS. You just have to realize what you can do on your card with it and not try and fool around with all the options. For example, a lot of the fan controls do not work with the 7900GS...so I leave them alone and on the 6800 you can pipe unlock it to have the same number of pipes as the 6800GT, but you can not do this on all cards even though the pipe unlock area is still visable and editable.
Click to expand...

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1240142

This has nothing to do with the companies, I said time and time again in my posts that this is about my disbelief about the lack of 3rd party apps given the overwhelming popularity of Nvidia cards amongst enthusiasts. This has nothing to do with with the ultimate capabilities of the program, but the total lack of features that enthusiasts should have and exists with other programs (unfortunately, ATI Tray Tools is ATI only unlike ATI Tool). I thought that I must have been missing something but I guess the majority of you are all using Rivatuner. It's quite ridiculous to have to use 5 separate programs (Rivatuner, Nvidia Control Panel, Ntune, ATI Tool, and Fraps) and bloat to do what one simple program could do for me before. Yes Rivatuner can control fans but the implementation is feature-lacking and requires multiple steps or workarounds as per that thread.

It desperately needs a variable temperature and fan speed control page that will ramp up the fanspeed depending on temperatures, versus the user making a work-around solution by making several different fan speed profiles they activate manually... and also 2D/3D detection at the least. It would also help if you could get a tray-pop-up to allow you to change your overclocks/3D api settings/display settings, etc. Also frustrating that I need to run fraps seperately as well. I'm just really frustrated having to run 5 different programs (all in different order) to get my settings right, to even overclock or test stability, and then when I run my games, I have to use these programs again to set all the profiles before I start anything. With a good program like ATi Tray Tools, ths is all automatic, once it detects that you've gone into 3D, it loads everything for you and even takes care of things like dynamic clock/fanspeed to temperatures automatically...not to mention allowing you to control these things down the the last detail and even displaying this data in game for you with it's gui.

Of course, the usual counter-argument is "why don't you go make it yourself" and obviously I can't. I do very much appreciate the creators of all these programs, I was just shocked to discover the lack of features or richness in the available tools for Nvidia cards despite their overwhelming popularity.
 
just use coolbits to adjust clocks, test for stability with your program of choice, i prefer rthdribl, if it artifacts, clock it back, if not, try for more.....its really easy man....i dont like using all those other programs, the auto detect in those never was reliable anyways, i could almost always get much more out of a card by doing it myself manually and testing, the only thing i used Rivatuner for was the Hardware Monitor because it works really well for recording temps and all during stress testing....

perhaps you are just wanting a program to do it all for you instead of doing it yourself? i dunno, but thats what it sounds like
 
nobody_here said:
just use coolbits to adjust clocks, test for stability with your program of choice, i prefer rthdribl, if it artifacts, clock it back, if not, try for more.....its really easy man....i dont like using all those other programs, the auto detect in those never was reliable anyways, i could almost always get much more out of a card by doing it myself manually and testing, the only thing i used Rivatuner for was the Hardware Monitor because it works really well for recording temps and all during stress testing....

perhaps you are just wanting a program to do it all for you instead of doing it yourself? i dunno, but thats what it sounds like
Click to expand...

He's not talking about something to find an overclock for him. I see his point exactly. I came from an ATI x1800xtpe and used ATITray tools for exactly what he mentions. 2D/3D detection, multiple profile support for both 2D and 3D which also included fan speed profiles. So you set your speeds and fan settings, save to a profile for 2D/3D, tell the program what profile to load when and it takes care of the rest for you. No need to manually edit the clocks when launching a game like Rivatuner as ATITray Tools would detect the switch to 3D mode and load your GPU and FAN profiles for you. It also had an option to display FPS in the upper right corner without having to use FRAPS and even gave you the option to change the font color.

The best thing about it all? IT WORKED! 3D detection worked the way it should, profiles switched correctly, GPU speeds would be adjusted to what you set, fan speeds would adjust based on the temps you set, etc.

The person(s) that wrote ATI Tray Tools should make one for Nvidia as well. Probably won't happen though.
 
nobody_here said:
just use coolbits to adjust clocks, test for stability with your program of choice, i prefer rthdribl, if it artifacts, clock it back, if not, try for more.....its really easy man....i dont like using all those other programs, the auto detect in those never was reliable anyways, i could almost always get much more out of a card by doing it myself manually and testing, the only thing i used Rivatuner for was the Hardware Monitor because it works really well for recording temps and all during stress testing....

perhaps you are just wanting a program to do it all for you instead of doing it yourself? i dunno, but thats what it sounds like
Click to expand...

I don't mean autodetect for max overclock, I mean 3D detection when you go into 3D from 2D from the deskop. I want a program that lets me do it all within that one program, as is possible with ATi Tray Tools. I can adjust clocks manually (driver/soft level), test stability, set all D3D/OpenGL settings, set all display settings, have full control of fan, create multiple profiles, have dynamic fanspeed control, automatic dynamic fan speed dependant on temperature, system monitoring, have onscreen display of clocks, temps, fanspeed, and FPS counter in games or any other 3D (including directshow movies, other rendering), etc. all available from a simple tray icon. (What I used for many years from 9700 Pro to x1950).

Picked up an 8800GT (first Nvidia card since Ti4200) and found I had need 5 different programs and didn't even come close to the kind of manual or automatic control that I had before. Before I specified very exact clocks, API settings, and fan speeds which would dynamically change dependant on temperature and whether I was in 2D or 3D and they would all execute automatically in the background from one program. Like the above poster said, it all worked perfectly and how you would expect it to. And coolbits doesn't adjust shaders yet does it? ATI Tray Tools is an amazing app for enthusiasts, I feel you Nvidia guys are missing out. Ray Adams made an amazing program. By dynamic fanspeed, I mean a list of 10 different temperatures and then the equivalent fan speed that it would ramp up to for that temperature. I loved the 3D detection. I could even set custom wav files to sound in the background to let me know when my computer was going in and out of 2D/3D and thusly, automatically loading my clock/dynamic fanspeed profiles.
 
nst6563 said:
He's not talking about something to find an overclock for him. I see his point exactly. I came from an ATI x1800xtpe and used ATITray tools for exactly what he mentions. 2D/3D detection, multiple profile support for both 2D and 3D which also included fan speed profiles. So you set your speeds and fan settings, save to a profile for 2D/3D, tell the program what profile to load when and it takes care of the rest for you. No need to manually edit the clocks when launching a game like Rivatuner as ATITray Tools would detect the switch to 3D mode and load your GPU and FAN profiles for you. It also had an option to display FPS in the upper right corner without having to use FRAPS and even gave you the option to change the font color.

The best thing about it all? IT WORKED! 3D detection worked the way it should, profiles switched correctly, GPU speeds would be adjusted to what you set, fan speeds would adjust based on the temps you set, etc.

The person(s) that wrote ATI Tray Tools should make one for Nvidia as well. Probably won't happen though.
Click to expand...

Spare-Flair said:
I don't mean autodetect for max overclock, I mean 3D detection when you go into 3D from 2D from the deskop. I want a program that lets me do it all within that one program, as is possible with ATi Tray Tools. I can adjust clocks manually (driver/soft level), test stability, set all D3D/OpenGL settings, set all display settings, have full control of fan, create multiple profiles, have dynamic fanspeed control, automatic dynamic fan speed dependant on temperature, system monitoring, have onscreen display of clocks, temps, fanspeed, and FPS counter in games or any other 3D (including directshow movies, other rendering), etc. all available from a simple tray icon. (What I used for many years from 9700 Pro to x1950).

Picked up an 8800GT (first Nvidia card since Ti4200) and found I had need 5 different programs and didn't even come close to the kind of manual or automatic control that I had before. Before I specified very exact clocks, API settings, and fan speeds which would dynamically change dependant on temperature and whether I was in 2D or 3D and they would all execute automatically in the background from one program. Like the above poster said, it all worked perfectly and how you would expect it to. And coolbits doesn't adjust shaders yet does it? ATI Tray Tools is an amazing app for enthusiasts, I feel you Nvidia guys are missing out. Ray Adams made an amazing program. By dynamic fanspeed, I mean a list of 10 different temperatures and then the equivalent fan speed that it would ramp up to for that temperature. I loved the 3D detection. I could even set custom wav files to sound in the background to let me know when my computer was going in and out of 2D/3D and thusly, automatically loading my clock/dynamic fanspeed profiles.
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AHH, OK, my bad

yeah, as i remember Rivatuner's features for 2D/3D profiles worked pretty good on my 7900GT though....maybe it's just the authors lack of updating the data to work with newer cards

it's just never been a big deal to me though to adjust clocks, game away, than select stock clocks when done..

and dont forget Powerstrip, it also has this ability, i havent used it in a long time, not sure when it was updated last, might be worth a shot if you havent already tried it ;)

http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/ps.shtm
 
nst6563 said:
The person(s) that wrote ATI Tray Tools should make one for Nvidia as well. Probably won't happen though.
Click to expand...

I totally agree coming from 3 ATI cards myself. Also NV should have kept the old control panel the new one sucks.
 
zone_86 said:
I totally agree coming from 3 ATI cards myself. Also NV should have kept the old control panel the new one sucks.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's huge, takes up the whole screen, and whenever you click on something you want, it'll invariably tell you: "this feature has moved to so and so, would you like to open this program now?" click ok or cancel.

Geez, if it's moved, then take it out of that list...or how about you put everything into a same damn program?
 
Yes I also miss the simplicity and power of ATi Tool. I miss the days where I could go do something with my life while it found out my max overclocks for me.
 
I was thinking similar and wondering why there is no 3D/2D profile for my 8800GT so I did some testing.

Using Rivatuner, I set my GT to minimum speed (315/785/450) and noted how much power my PC is pulling from the mains at idle.
Then I set it to maximum overclock (740/1836/930) and watched the power consumption jump up only 5W, still at idle.
Due to PSU inefficiency, this translates to around 4W extra the card uses at idle and not much heat.

GPU temp increased 1C on idle going from min to max clock so it looks like there is no real need for 2D/3D profiles as it would make almost no difference.
 
fyi - if you're running Vista and Aero, then your card would already be in 3d mode.
 
ATiTool was the best. I wish they still updated it and I wish they had figured out NVidia fan control. That would have been such a perfect little program. :(
 
Spare-Flair said:
Yeah it's huge, takes up the whole screen, and whenever you click on something you want, it'll invariably tell you: "this feature has moved to so and so, would you like to open this program now?" click ok or cancel.

Geez, if it's moved, then take it out of that list...or how about you put everything into a same damn program?
Click to expand...

QFT(MF)T!

You can't view temperatures, because they want you to install nTune (which crashed everything I installed it on.) Yet if you do coolbits and then enable the old style control panel, you can see the temp right there without installing anything.

Rivatuner actually does have on screen display of temps, FPS, etc... but it's a pain to set up. You can do all that fan control stuff, but it's a HUGE pain to set up. Then, if you have dual displays and SLI like I do, none of the settings stick because it detects the cards differently in and out of SLI.

I'm getting a G15 keyboard (package arrives today!) and am planning on writing an applet that will monitor GPU temps on the LCD display. Depending on how the driver-level functions are set up, I might just add the ability to show FPS and controls fans with it too and toss Rivatuner to the side.

But knowing me, I'll get halfway through it and go watch TV instead.
 
Spare-Flair said:
Yeah it's huge, takes up the whole screen, and whenever you click on something you want, it'll invariably tell you: "this feature has moved to so and so, would you like to open this program now?" click ok or cancel.

Geez, if it's moved, then take it out of that list...or how about you put everything into a same damn program?
Click to expand...

Real talk dude, real talk. My sentiments exactly. I thought NV got rid of the classic option in their later driver rev's(169.xx) Does coolbits still work? I hate using the .net CP and wish I could still use the older one. I have an 8800GT and I also am sick of the complete un-innovative GUI design of the driver set with ntune.

Shit, how long till ESA gets fully adopted?

Edit: OP should tweak the grammar in his title to ward off any potential flamers. Example: What are overclocking tools for Nvidia cards so bad?
 
XamediX said:
Real talk dude, real talk. My sentiments exactly. I thought NV got rid of the classic option in their later driver rev's(169.xx) Does coolbits still work? I hate using the .net CP and wish I could still use the older one. I have an 8800GT and I also am sick of the complete un-innovative GUI design of the driver set with ntune.

Shit, how long till ESA gets fully adopted?
Click to expand...

ESA will still use something lame like nTune.
You just have to dive into RivaTuner. Once you work with it awhile, it is very powerful and way better than nTune could ever be.
You CAN set up automatic fan profiles with RivaTuner quite easily. I have one now with my 8800GT and it is superb.
RivaTuner aint for babies who want someone to hold their hand and do all the work.
You have to read and look in their forums for information and actually understand what you want and what you are doing. Once you work with it it becomes quite simple, but there is a learning curve.
 
Nvidia's fan architechture is very different. You can set it to automatically spin up and down using the Low-level system/settings/Fan/Auto part.

First you have to enable a registry key (from within Riva) to change this. This is where the 29% until 100c, then 100% thing is set.

Then you should read up on how the fan control works, it's a bit complicated, http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=2500053

That thread explains it. Once you've figured it out, I've got some good settings for you:

Duty cycle min = 34
Duty cycle max = 100
T min = 56
T range = 8
T operating = 110
T low = 0
T high = 110

This basically sets it so the fan goes to 100% around 80c, otherwise it dynamically starts adjusting once temps are above 56c. The fan is set to run at a minimum of 34% all the time.

The tricky part is calculating the range, rather than having a system where u just say 100% at 80c, the fan uses the range to calculate how "dynamic" the fan is.

Ie., if you are running a game and use this method you will hear this thing occasionally speeding up and down a bit more than it would if you were using defined fan profiles...This doesn't bug me as it so happens most games create a constant temperature of around 64c with little variance so the fan doesn't change speed in an annoying fashion.

Using my settings, the fan doesn't need to ever go over 60% or so in most games, and my load temp is 64c or so. Crysis is the one exception, that game heats this card up, and the fan goes to 70% sometimes and I get around 70c...

this system is superior to fan profiles because the fan dynamically and immediately adjusts to temperature, so it's never too loud, never too soft, it's always just right!

BTW, my hunch for why we have the default 29% until 100c setting is because this fan control system is complicated. The manual (available in PDF through that thread) is like 100 pages long. There's a lot engineers can do to optimize this fan systems' cooling vs silence but it takes a lot of work. I'm sure Nvidia just wanted to get this thing to market so they gave us a noob setting.
 
Yes, Im not looking forward to installing the 8800GT because of this. Ive been spoiled by ATItool and how great its utility has been.

On the X1900 it controls fan speed, clocks, and voltages on the fly with a 2D and a 3D profile. So Im cool and slow on the desktop and fast as it can go in 3D. It's worked flawlessly.

No such thing like it exists for NV, bummer.

One word of blame has to be said though.... NVidia is utterly uncooperative with 3rd party software programmers. You have to ingeniously reverse engineer NVs code. That's nothing new, ever tried to get specs on the NForce chipsets to better tweak memory etc?

I call it short sighted, NV calls it policy.
 
Eh?! I've just gotten my first GF card since the FX 5900, and I am really disappointed about what I've read here.

I have been using ATI Tray Tools on my ATI cards and I've grown to just love it. I searched the forums here to see what suggestions you guys might have had for overclocking tools, and it turns out there's really nothing good?

To be honest, the only feature I am truly looking for is auto-overclocking upon 3D detection (so I don't have to manually set my clocks before playing a game). Is there anything that does this for NVIDIA cards? I'd rather not have my 8800 running at full blast all the time.
 
I use ATItool with my 8800GTX's...I downclock 2d mode to 300mhz and leave stock ssettings on 3d mode. When I close COD4, I can hear the cards gradually get quieter as the temps go down.
 
Go back to ATI tool then, quit whining.:rolleyes: Unwinder is not affiliated with Nvidia in anyway. For him to make a tool that allows me to adjust my 8800's Core, memory and shader speeds and control my fan is freaking awsome. Why not go whine to Nvidia for making such crappy tools for their chips? Ntune is a joke as is their "new" control panel.

Guru3d has a whole section with links even, on how to set up control for fan speed by temps. :eek: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=2500053

or here is another option, go write a tool doing everything you want to control on your video card yourself .....
 
I don't understand all this bitching and moaning. Rivatuner is the best most complete overclock tool I have used. It can do all those things.
 
The problem isn't with rivatuner, it's with the nvidia cards. Rivatuner is a well designed program and has a TON of functionality if you take the time to learn how to use it. As far as the 8800 cards go, there's no 2D/3D mode, that's why rivatuner can't detect it. Open up your card's BIOS in nibitor and you'll see there's only one clock mode, that's it. I manually edited my BIOS on my 8800GTS to have a 2D and a 3D mode and upon first reboot, rivatuner recognized the modes and used them correctly (this was in XP, in Vista, the card is always in 3D mode so I just manually reduce my clocks by hot keys, or I could set it up by application if I really wanted too).
 
I think it's because nvidia only wants to appear to allow overclocking. I don't know whether it's to prevent overclocking related hardware failures, or to allow the cards to appear more stable since fewer people will go through all the hoops.

coolbits overclocking was very functional (and simple) and the old control panel had perfectly working custom resolution options. The new control panel is terrible and moving other features to another completely bloated application is disappointing.

Third party tools like Rivatuner and the utility that comes with motherboards are still the much better options. nvidia really needs to get their act together.
 
rivatuner works fine if u stay away from all the extras that probably wont work for u anyway. Yeah, profiles to make ur card underclock in 2d and OC in 3d are difficult and alot of that has to do with your card or OS GUI. RT has been getting alot of attention and many updates to work with Nvidia's latest and greatest. So for that, I do RT. ATI cards by themselves usually underclock and clock higher depending on the environment...at least that's what their older cards did.

Coolbits is no more. Not in the sense where is was just a reg edit and there is was, an option in the control panel. Ntune sucks for most IMO and I use a full nvidia compatible environment which should mean I could use ntune and all its glory without problem--I can't...so screw them. ATI tool is cool but lacking updates. Updates usually mean they're listening to the consumer and adjusting as neccessary.

Just my 2 cents....
 
I recently bought my first ever nvidia card (in sig) and searched to see what overclocking tools seemed to be the best for the card, generally the consensus of the best being rivatuner.

IMO rivatuner seems to be quite a good little program, if not necessarily as intuitive initially as ATT (that I used before with my old X1800 XT). I would get another ATI card so I could go back to using ATT but....well.... maybe not right now :p
 
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