Why are Cases Crappy?

[Noobkiller]

why are cases so crappy? How about why most cases so damn expensive

 

[mikeblas]

My suggestion? stop bitching and install samurize. problem solved.

from samurize.com? The website doesn't give me enough confidence in the product to download it or install it. What does it look like, anyway? The screenshots section has 175 pages of crap.

I use O&O LED, and it's kind of useful. But software monitoring programs don't solve the problem as readily as you assert. They take realestate on the screen. They assume that I've got the screen on in the first place; for my servers, the KVM might or might not be on there, and if I'm doing distributed work I need to see more than one at a time anyway. They also alter what they measure. An LED connected to a port on a controller card doens't slow down transfers or use memory.

ps. sorry for the old thread bump. lol i should stop posting at 2:47 am

Why is contributing to an old thread bad form? The issue remains unsolved, since I still can't find a case that I'm thrilled with.

I bought a new LianLi that's quite nice -- I can't remember if it's a PC-60 or PC-61. The LEDs don't bleed, are visible on the front even when at an acute angle, and so on. But there's still the issues with the USB ports, and so on.

 

[TrueChaos]

First, if you pay close attention, many users have said that they keep their case on their desk, for various reasons. I would place money on more than 75% of people who actually buy their own case, and build their own PC, place it on their desk. So, why are cases not designed ergonomically for the floor? Because the majority of people dont keep their case on the floor.

Personally? Ive got a large desk. 2 keyboards, 2 mice, 2 full towers, a laptop, and two 20.1" widescreen monitors, plus a laptop. Fits fine for me.

Secondly, as many have said, all that would be required to get some LED's, and USB ports to where you can see them is about 20-30 minutes of modding. This is the case modding section after all, im sure if you posted a thread asking for help on the wiring aspect, many would be happy to assist.

I agree with your sense of taste, and their are many cases that follow your feelings for style. LianLi, older Kingwin, some antec, silverstone, etc.

How much money would you be willing to spend for "The perfect case?" If your willing to spend a lot of money on one, call up lian li, and see if they will custom fab something for you. Cant hurt to try.

Lastly... Reading through this thread from the beginning, your replies indicate a snobbish, holier than thou attitude, and you seem to feel your opinion is better than that of everyone else. You almost expect that there will be a case that exactly fits what you want, and damn it, everyone should agree with you so one will be made!

Sorry dude, your in the minority for case needs, and everyone wont make demands from their favourite case manufacterer to make a case exactly like you want, just because your needs are oh so great.

-Cameron

 

[RazorWind]

What if you made a little module about the size of a 5 port router with all the switches and LEDs and shit on it, and put it on your desk? For me, that'd be perfect anyway, since my LCD monitors leave a pretty big footprint of space between their bases that's really only good for putting small things like that anyway.

 

[mikeblas]

What if you made a little module about the size of a 5 port router with all the switches and LEDs and shit on it, and put it on your desk? For me, that'd be perfect anyway, since my LCD monitors leave a pretty big footprint of space between their bases that's really only good for putting small things like that anyway.

This has come up before in the thread. It's a reasonable idea for a single machine, but doesn't scale -- I have six machines here at work, and would have a real tangle of cables if I implemented such a solution.

 

[Xilikon]

I have read everything on all pages before replying.

I think your only way to get this is to have something custom-made to your needs. As you said, you don't want to take that route but i'm sure there are places who will do this like http://www.mnpctech.com/ so take informations from them and see if they can build a case to your needs.

 

[mikeblas]

First, if you pay close attention, many users have said that they keep their case on their desk, for various reasons. I would place money on more than 75% of people who actually buy their own case, and build their own PC, place it on their desk. So, why are cases not designed ergonomically for the floor? Because the majority of people dont keep their case on the floor.

I'm not sure what it is you'd like me to pay close attention to. I'm trying to find a case that I like for the way that I use it; I'm not trying to find a case that other people will like for the way they use their cases.

I work at a very large software company. Most everyone uses at least one tower machine in their office; developers, like me, will have three to six machines total. I pass about 75 offices on the way to lunch, if I cut through the building. Glancing into other offices, I can only see a couple of people who have put their tower machines on their desks.

Of the six machines in my office, only two are boxes I built. I'm certainly in the minority for building my own rigs and bringing them into work, but it's hard for me to believe that I'm in the minority for putting tower cases on the floor in general. And I'm certainly not in the minority at the company where I work.

Secondly, as many have said, all that would be required to get some LED's, and USB ports to where you can see them is about 20-30 minutes of modding. This is the case modding section after all, im sure if you posted a thread asking for help on the wiring aspect, many would be happy to assist.

And as I have responded to everyone who has made such a suggestion: I don't have the inclination to mod a dozen different cases. I posted in this section because there's no "unmodified cases" section and I felt this area would be most appropriate.

Lastly... Reading through this thread from the beginning, your replies indicate a snobbish, holier than thou attitude, and you seem to feel your opinion is better than that of everyone else. You almost expect that there will be a case that exactly fits what you want, and damn it, everyone should agree with you so one will be made!

I'm not sure why it's snobbish or holier than thou to ask questions about finding something I want.

People who suggest that I should want something different are telling me that I don't know what I want. That doesn't help me, as this is a matter of preference. If someone says they want to buy a grey sports car, would you tell them they're in the minority because you'd bet that most sports cars sold are red? Would you call them snobbish or holier than thou because they insist they want a grey car, even though other cars are red?

Perhaps you might more critically read the posts I'm responding to, including your own. Things like "do this and stop bitching, problem solved" fall short of being constructive and aren't at all insightful. And they're rather insulting--if the solution was obvious, why imply that it has escaped me?

I'm not sure I expect a case to give me exactly what I want. But finding a few models that were even close would be nice.

 

[TrueChaos]

I work at a very large software company. Most everyone uses at least one tower machine in their office; developers, like me, will have three to six machines total. I pass about 75 offices on the way to lunch, if I cut through the building. Glancing into other offices, I can only see a couple of people who have put their tower machines on their desks.

You are, however, in the overall minority of people who buy their own case (rather than what comes with a prebuilt system). Most who buy their own case like to have it displayed, on their desk. You need only look to all the replies saying that their case is on their desk to realize this.

The sports car analogy? I wouldnt say its unreasonable to want a gray sportscar, or that they shouldnt be allowed to have one. However, I would say that they are probably going to have to pay extra, or buy the car a different color and get it painted at a specialty shop, because its unreasonable for a company to offer such a color if it is not economically sound... And if 1 of every 1000 people who bought the car wanted grey... well I wouldnt be offering gray as a choice.

Its not snobbish or holier than thou to ask for help finding the case you want. Its snobbish and holier than thou to ask, and simply dismiss all ideas that you dont like, and to berate those who offer contrary opinions. Basically, you could have been a lot kinder in your replies. Instead, you seem to get offended, or angry, about little things. Your reply has only solidifed my opinion that you are snobby, condecending, and have quite the holier than thou attitude -- Had you replied saying something like Sorry, wasnt intending to appear that way, just looking for some help... You would have got an appology from me, and some respect. You might also notice that while I stated my feelings about your attitude, I still gave suggestions to try to help you out.

General hardware might be a better place for unmodded cases.

-Cameron

 

[mikeblas]

because its unreasonable for a company to offer such a color if it is not economically sound...

I'm not sure this holds as case manufacturers produce models which appeal to a limited audience in the first place -- non-OEM cases are all about satisfying personal preferences, from the garrish to the subtle. Some vendors have made innovative functional and usability improvements; why not do so for the exterior,
too?

I'm complaining about all cases; not just non-OEM models. Why don't the Dell clamshell cases work better on the floor, as well?

Basically, you could have been a lot kinder in your replies.

Perhaps; I've been a little frustrated by repeating myself, chaffed by chippy "obvious" responses, and annoyed by the insinuation that I'm working "wrong" by keeping the machines on the floor. I'm sorry if has influenced my tone, but I'm glad to have stopped before forgetting to discuss cases in favor of repeatedly posting about my judgement of someone else's character.

 

[Alchemic]

from samurize.com? The website doesn't give me enough confidence in the product to download it or install it. What does it look like, anyway? The screenshots section has 175 pages of crap.

Samurize can look any way you want. It doesn't take up screen realestate if you use it as a toolbar in your taskbar. It will take a tiny amount of time to configure, and it doesn't use much memory and CPU usage is negligible.

 

[mikeblas]

Samurize can look any way you want. It doesn't take up screen realestate if you use it as a toolbar in your taskbar. It will take a tiny amount of time to configure, and it doesn't use much memory and CPU usage is negligible.

Thanks for the details -- maybe I'll give it a whirl, but the main problem is that the monitors aren't always on or available.

O+O LED, which I mentioned using, costs about 1.5% when the machine is busy. This isn't acceptable for me, since I do lots of performance-oriented work. A hardware LED costs 0.0%.

 

[nigerian_businessman]

from samurize.com? The website doesn't give me enough confidence in the product to download it or install it. What does it look like, anyway? The screenshots section has 175 pages of crap.

I use O&O LED, and it's kind of useful. But software monitoring programs don't solve the problem as readily as you assert. They take realestate on the screen. They assume that I've got the screen on in the first place; for my servers, the KVM might or might not be on there, and if I'm doing distributed work I need to see more than one at a time anyway. They also alter what they measure. An LED connected to a port on a controller card doens't slow down transfers or use memory.

Why is contributing to an old thread bad form? The issue remains unsolved, since I still can't find a case that I'm thrilled with.

I bought a new LianLi that's quite nice -- I can't remember if it's a PC-60 or PC-61. The LEDs don't bleed, are visible on the front even when at an acute angle, and so on. But there's still the issues with the USB ports, and so on.

It sounds to me like you're being entirely too picky about the options available to you, which is fine. The problem comes when you start bitching and whining about it like it's somebody elses fault that things aren't just how you want it.

If you have the money for servers and all that, surely you have the money to pick up an old LCD monitor on ebay and use it for nothing but monitoring the things you're talking about on your servers. If you keep your eyes open you can often find 15 inch and smaller used displays for $50 and under. Samurize has a very low footprint if you keep the bling factor to a minimum. You can go all out and make it very graphical looking, or you can make it a simple text display. I don't see where you're getting that it alters what it measures. If all you need to know is if its accessing or not, samurize will tell you that. Samurize will also tell you about your network traffic, like you're asking. It will also let you know ram usage, page file usage, hell, whatever you want it to list.

Also, if you don't have a screen on the servers, set up the monitor then use something like VNC to monitor them.

And, further, if you want it on your case, get a 12 inch screen and affix it to the top of your case with double sided tape or something. You could even get crafty and make a housing with (gasp) a USB hub .

Or, alternately, you could shoot down my idea, pick apart every thing wrong with it, and be miserable to people who are just trying to help. I understand that you would like something just suited to you, but in this case, the only way you're going to get it is by making it yourself or compromising. With absolute certainty, I can tell you that your problems will not be solved by asking for help then pissing on the faces of everyone that offers you suggestions.

Edit:
I apologize for saying 'stop bitching and install samurize'. However, its irritating to see people make suggestions and have you just shoot them down one by one with a tone that implies that we're stupid for trying to help by offering up these ideas.

It's also aggrivating to tell someone about a program and then have them say 'oh, well I looked at the website and it sucks so I'm not even going to bother. Theres 175 pages of screenshots! BTW what does it look like?'. I mean, did you even look? You work for a software company, I'm assuming you know your way around a computer. Would it kill you to spend 5-10 mins of your time downloading it and trying it out for yourself?

 

[mikeblas]

Or, alternately, you could shoot down my idea, pick apart every thing wrong with it, and be miserable to people who are just trying to help. I understand that you would like something just suited to you, but in this case, the only way you're going to get it is by making it yourself or compromising. With absolute certainty, I can tell you that your problems will not be solved by asking for help then pissing on the faces of everyone that offers you suggestions.

Almost a constructive post until you lost sight of your goal and wrote that paragraph.

I don't see where you're getting that it alters what it measures.

It takes CPU time to spy on the activity, monitor it, measure it, then draw the graph or results and push them to the screen.

Without such a program, the application or service issues its request, then waits. When the request is satisfied, it gets back to work.

With such a program, the application or service issues its request, then waits. Either the wait is longer while the monitoring routine reports and updates, or the application or service resumes and competes with the monitoring code for CPU time, even if only briefly.

Would it kill you to spend 5-10 mins of your time downloading it and trying it out for yourself?

It's the uninstall and cleanup time that I'm worried about.

I don't think I need to use it, though. It requires that I have a monitor on the machine at all times for even a coarse status, and I already get the details it would provide from PerfMon.

 

[Aeauvian12]

Okay, this thread is bugging me, and the topic and content is absurd to say the least. You are being WAY too nitpicky on computer cases. The manufacturers don't make a case for YOU, they make a case for the general population. That being said, OF COURSE there won't be a case that fits every single one of your specs. So what if you like tons of LEDs, maybe most don't, so of course the manufacturer will not put tons of LED space. Not everyone wants buttons or panels on the top of the bazel, so they may not be put on. You are being way too nitpicky and egotistical thinking you will find a case made just for YOU when what you want isn't necessarily what most others want. So either build your own, settle for one that's "good enough", or quit bitching.

 

[synaps3]

Aeuvian has a point, while my taste in cases is similar to the OP's, many people are much too picky about cases. I usually prefer rugged cases over soft and pretty cases. I would rather have a case that looks and performs like a H1, not a Ferrari. Since the case has no effect on performance also, I do not understand people who buy Lian-Lis and very high end cases. I can't imagine spending more than $60 on a case, especially if it did not come with a PSU. Generally, I get low-end cases and sell off the PSU that comes with them for almost the price I paid initially.

 

[mikeblas]

You're really overstating my requirements, Aeauvian12. Is your extreme interpretation of my desires contributing to your assertion that I'm nitpicky and egomaniacal?

About 98% of the tower cases in offices (that aren't in labs) in this building are on the floor. Am I really in the substantial minority thinking that a case that's typically used on the floor should be designed to be more usable when on the floor?

At the moment, there's 349,865 other threads here. Why participate in one that bothers you so?

 

[mikeblas]

Since the case has no effect on performance also,

While a case doesn't improve benchmark scores, its design can improve the usability of the machine.

What originally motivated this thread was that I bought a USB key. I realized I wasn't using it much, and it dawned on me that was largely because of my USB ports being practically inaccessible. They were near the floor on the cases, and I simply didn't consider using 'em. Even when I did, I was afraid that I would kick or step on the key and snap it (or its connector, or the cases' connector).

When I thought about the other things wrong with the cases, I came up with my list.

 

[renswic]

I can, if the case has a spot for it. The LianLi's don't, since they're all perforated.

umm one series of lianlis cases are like that
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811112040
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811112097
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811112096
look only holes are for the cooling(you are planing on cooling your computers right?)
those are just 3 of hte many lian lis on newegg that aint perforated, and stickers, dont those fall in to what you would call guady?

What if you made a little module about the size of a 5 port router with all the switches and LEDs and shit on it, and put it on your desk?

because that would require him to do some work

Since the case has no effect on performance also, I do not understand people who buy Lian-Lis and very high end cases.

i dunno, some cases offer beter cooling then others, better cooling = better performance

i bought my (guady inthe OPs book do to the window, LEDS that came installed on my heatsink and PSU, color courdnated theme, being perforated, and lights that can be turned on or off) lian li because i saw it in a magazine, fell in love with the style and when i had the cash i bought one

While a case doesn't improve benchmark scores, its design can improve the usability of the machine.

What originally motivated this thread was that I bought a USB key. I realized I wasn't using it much, and it dawned on me that was largely because of my USB ports being practically inaccessible. They were near the floor on the cases, and I simply didn't consider using 'em. Even when I did, I was afraid that I would kick or step on the key and snap it (or its connector, or the cases' connector).

as i said before beter cooling = beter performance, the cooler you case runs the more its overclockable and the higher teh OC the higher teh benckmarks, so ya it does improve it

im sitting in my chair atm, and im full able to reach to the floor to where my computer would sit if it was there and be able to blug a USB drive in, plus if i move my chair i can reach even farther

in the end, you need to stop whineing about how no one caters to a rather small market and make some of the stuff you need, if your to scared/lazy to do it your self, pay some one to do it

 

[nigerian_businessman]

I should have just let this thread die. You don't want help. Troll.

LIKE OMG IM TOO LAZY TO BEND DOWN AND INSERT A USB KEY AND OMG TEH LEDS ARE HARD TO SEE AND ACTUALLY FIXING THE PROBLEM IS ENTIRELY TOO MUCH WORK BECAUSE IM SO BUSY WITH WORK AND YAH MY JOB IS UBER HARD AND THATS WHY I HAVE TIME TO TROLL IN THIS THREAD ON HARDFORUMZ!!!

If your job is so cpu intensive why dont you shut down your fucking browser and get back to work.

 

[Warrior]

First, if you pay close attention, many users have said that they keep their case on their desk, for various reasons. I would place money on more than 75% of people who actually buy their own case, and build their own PC, place it on their desk.

-Cameron

I had a hunch about this random percentage, and the fact that he has money on it, and did something about it...

i made a poll asking if you have your computer on your desk or your floor...

please respond...

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1070742

 

[mikeblas]

umm one series of lianlis cases are like that

"All of the Lian-Lis" meant all the ones I own, not all the ones that are sold. Sorry that wasn't clear.

I bought a PC-60-something a few weeks ago, and it's a substantial improvement simply because the LEDs are easier to see -- they don't bleed together like those on the PC-V series. But the front-mounted USB ports are less than an inch from the bottom of the case -- they're right on the floor.

There are plenty of companies that cater to small markets.

I should have just let this thread die. You don't want help. Troll.

Quite the contrary, I've been thrilled to pieces when others have recommended cases that have addressed my desires.

 

[Warrior]

i find that when i upgrade to a new case, i know its hard to find what i need, which isnt much... basicly a window and a motherboard tray.. the rest is just cool...

i have been very happy with my antec p-160w. it has top USB ports which i too desire now. And has a temperature sensor readout as well. I find the cooling to be exquisit and plent room for upgrades. I also got the motherboard tray and a window ( on slect models)
i find other peoples reaction to this case is very quick and to the negative. But ever since i read about 2 reviews when they came out, i wanted one.

but hey, this is why they make strawberry chocolate and vanillia. Difforent strokes for difforent folks.... finding the right case is probrably the hardest thing in custom building, the rest is just performance.

 

[TrueChaos]

Or, alternately, you could shoot down my idea, pick apart every thing wrong with it, and be miserable to people who are just trying to help. I understand that you would like something just suited to you, but in this case, the only way you're going to get it is by making it yourself or compromising. With absolute certainty, I can tell you that your problems will not be solved by asking for help then pissing on the faces of everyone that offers you suggestions.

Someone else gets my point... glad im not the only one.

-Cameron

 

[compugoop]

ive owned a chieftec dragon case for a couple months now, its pretty dan close to perfect, except the reset button is so dang hard to push.

 

[ToastMaster]

No manufactured case will *ever* satisfy every single one of your desires.

As someone else mentioned, only building one yourself will. If you aren't willing to put that much time into it, I'd suggest to stop whining, and simply find a case that meets most of what you're looking for. Who cares if a few things aren't perfectly acceptable? Rarely is anything in life that way.

That having been said, look at the Alienware MJ-12 workstation cases. They're built by Chenbro, which sells the cases retail, only with a different front:

link

That case is slightly smaller than mine as well, as mine has an additional 5 1/2 bay.

As I actually wanted the Alienware-designed case, I picked mine up off eBay rather reasonably. The small alienware head might bother you, but otherwise, it's a nice, large, unobtrusive case that has 5 total LEDs (4 for HDD, 1 power), the power and reset switches inside the front mask. A 92 mm intake fan with a 120mm rear fan, and plenty of ventilation along the sides and through the bottom of the front as well. Plenty of room inside, as it's designed to use extended ATX boards as well as regular ATX boards as well. Just something to possibly consider, although obviously it's not "perfect".

 

[ToastMaster]

As a previous owner of the Antec P-160W, I can say that it's a nice case. However, I kept it on the floor for most of its life-time, and found a few things quite annoying:

the annodized aluminum is nice, and helps keep it cool. however, it scraches and buffs readily, and then it becomes an eye-sore.

the front fan intake collects dust *very* readily, to where every few days I would have to wipe off heavy dust accumulations.

the supplied antec fans slowly begin to loosen over time, and then begin to cause a vibrating sensation against the metal case, ultimately causing an annoying sound.

the front panel is a breeze to take off. too bad the side panel didn't follow this plan, and would take a number of cuts and curses before finally popping open.

 

[mikeblas]

No manufactured case will *ever* satisfy every single one of your desires. [...]Who cares if a few things aren't perfectly acceptable? Rarely is anything in life that way

I'm not sure how you can predict it will not ever happen, but it's not as if I haven't been willing to entertain a compromise. Someone posted a link to one of the Stacker cases (P160, I think?) a while ago, and that's great. The swively thing on the top is really neat. Unfortunately, the case looks like ass. Aesthetics aren't a huge priority, but for the price of the case, I'd expect more.

Even if I relax all but the three or four most important considerations, the pickin's are still slim.

The LianLi PC-61 I bought was also quite acceptable; $135, IIRC -- the same price as that P160. The only snag is that the USB ports are impossible to reach. I've used it for a server since I don't need to put the USB key into it often, and seeing the lights on the servers is usually more important than on the workstations.

That having been said, look at the Alienware MJ-12 workstation cases. They're built by Chenbro, which sells the cases retail, only with a different front:

Thanks for the suggestion. How do the lights look with the door removed? The Alienware website is busted, and the Chenbro site doesn't show it.

LATER: It was the Antec P160, not the Stacker P160.

 

[ToastMaster]

Thanks for the suggestion. How do the lights look with the door removed? The Alienware website is busted, and the Chenbro site doesn't show it.

LATER: It was the Antec P160, not the Stacker P160.

How do the drive LEDs look with the front door removed? They're bright, but I don't find them to be obnoxious in any way. The only issue I ever had, was that to amplify the power LED light through the door, they have a clear plastic spacer between the front panel and the LED. The problem is that it causes some of the LED light to leak out through a hole along the side of the panel (each side of the front panel has more air intake holes). At the time, I had the case up on my desk since I was doing cable maintenance inside, and trying to sleep was annoying sometimes cause the light leaked out in my direction.

Now that it's below the desk, it isn't noticeable at all. Even if it were, a marker would fix the issue in a few seconds.

This image of the front panel off from the Chenbro case should show the design of the drive LEDs:

 

[Xilikon]

No manufactured case will *ever* satisfy every single one of your desires.

As someone else mentioned, only building one yourself will. If you aren't willing to put that much time into it, I'd suggest to stop whining, and simply find a case that meets most of what you're looking for. Who cares if a few things aren't perfectly acceptable? Rarely is anything in life that way.

That having been said, look at the Alienware MJ-12 workstation cases. They're built by Chenbro, which sells the cases retail, only with a different front:

link

That case is slightly smaller than mine as well, as mine has an additional 5 1/2 bay.

As I actually wanted the Alienware-designed case, I picked mine up off eBay rather reasonably. The small alienware head might bother you, but otherwise, it's a nice, large, unobtrusive case that has 5 total LEDs (4 for HDD, 1 power), the power and reset switches inside the front mask. A 92 mm intake fan with a 120mm rear fan, and plenty of ventilation along the sides and through the bottom of the front as well. Plenty of room inside, as it's designed to use extended ATX boards as well as regular ATX boards as well. Just something to possibly consider, although obviously it's not "perfect".

/me give a very very wet kiss to ToastMaster

That's exactly what i need for my fileserver project. I'll order one today

 

[mikeblas]

/me give a very very wet kiss to ToastMaster

MORF? I mean, is it getting like Brokeback Cases up in here?

This image of the front panel off from the Chenbro case should show the design of the drive LEDs:

Yeah; what I'm trying to find is a picture with the door open and still on.

The SR-107 came up earlier in the thread, but IIRC it wasn't exactly available at the time. Now, it looks like the case is available with a few different facades. ClubIT sells the 107 (which is larger, I think, than the 105) with a neat front -- no door! -- at a really reasonable price.

I'll have to give it a whirl when I build my next server. Thanks again for the link! I knew that if I sifted through the noise and flames, someone would come along with a solution.